Is a reverse grip pinch lift legal?

[Guest 115-1005574997]

I’ve just had a thought.  Is a reverse grip on a pinch lift legal? And if so should it be?  

Now correct me if im wrong, but in some powerlifting contests you cant use a reverse grip and Anthony Clarke has a separate record for doing in reverse grip?

Other lifts are also specific with reverse and normal grips (OH pressing, chins etc)

So I recon it should be a separate lift to 'normal' pinch gripping.

what do you guys think?

[terminator]

Scott, interesting point, I never thought about it for Pinch lifting....Hmmmmm

I know I'll probably take a lot of heat for my next question, kind of along the same lines.  Should there be separate categories for hook-grip and non-hook-grip for such events as the V-bar lift?  I certainly don't want to take anything away from the superhuman efforts of any of the guys on the board, but I always thought hook-grip (when properly learned) was more a challenge of pain tolerance and strength of materials (the hand) than of pure grip strength.  Like I said, maybe two categoreis, hook and non-hook.  I re-iterate, I don't want to take anything away from the fine efforts of Jim, Dave, Nick etc..  Anybody who almost leaves their finger on a bar deserves serious respect, and trains in a manner that everyone should.  

[Guest baldy]

I don't know about your question, but I have one for you or David: When you guys speak of using a reverse grip on a 2 hand pinch, do you mean a reverse grip (like a reverse grip in deadlifting, one hand palm forward the other palm backward) or do you mean an underhanded grip (like Clark's bench press, both hands with palms facing forward)? Either one seems like it would be crazy awkward, but Steve G said he did well with it.

Thanks in advance to whoever offers clarification.

[David Horne]

I have looked at the IAWA rules that I have used since the conception of the Grip champs, and it does not stipify which way the hands are to be, so that obviously opens it up to mean anyway. But it does stipify that the hands MUST be on top of the weight/s. So I may mark an area on the top of the discs where the hands will not be allowed to go any wider. This will stop any placement of the hands to the side of the discs. I may also think about bringing in seperate lifts for these different styles, and no hook lifts as terminator pointed out. One step at a time though.

David

[mobsterone]

Scott - 'sounds iffy'. I probably still have a copy of the first comp report you did for me and in it you passed comment on the method used to (even though it was in the rules) lever up

the bar during table top wrist curls. You had trained using the traditional method as opposed to the 'move the most weight' method. In addition I have mentioned my unusal style in previous postings.

Not being a full powerlifter I think the reason reverse grip benching was banned was two fold 1) very bad for the wrsist and 2) considered unsafe and more likely to have you drop the bar on your chest.

I agree with David that a mark on the discs is a good idea but this also applies to 'normal' grip placement. The 'normal' style allows for the levering/'snapping' tip of DH to be used, the reverse does not. Give it a go see how you get on.

Baldy - both hands are palm forward and as DH has guessed due to over stretching of the wrist one does have to place the hands quite far down. That said I always resist the temptation to make it easy as you'd just be picking the whole thing up.

I also work up to 85-95 kilos using the normal style so as to keep my hand in as it were. This will - hopefully - put me ahead of the Novice section never mind my current (I'm giving it away here) 111.5 kilo reverse grip which gets better every week (as does the normal style). Oh and don't forget my 'illegal' thin plates which I use in the home gym he he

[Guest 115-1005574997]

Well as long as the IAWA say its not dodgy and you are stronger using the unusual grip then keep it up.  just 'cos your different to most other men shouldnt make you feel inclined to use the stadard grip.

111.5k is good, not far off the 115k record.  is that a little over body weight?

Regarding what you said in your last post

'I probably still have a copy of the first comp report you did for me and in it you passed comment on the method used to (even though it was in the rules) lever up the bar during table top wrist curls. You had trained using the traditional method as opposed to the 'move the most weight' method'

eh?  ???

I think i know what you mean but im not 100% sure.  can you elaborate?  cheers.

Well with big hands the 3.5" deadlift should be an ok lift for you and if you can H bar curl around the 80kg mark, invert the #2 for a good time, TTWC about 250kg and pull a 200k + v bar then you should be in the top 4 of the open class.

Cant wait for August

[mobsterone]

It might have been in conversation or by email. You had prepared for your first competition using the more traditional method of wrist curls. When you saw that the method used was more a half lift with the bar right in at the base of the thumb you hadn't prepared in that way and made comment of it - I might be wrong.

Anyway...

I'll be ok for the lifts you mention expect the TTWC and the V-bar numbers. There's just no way - expectations aside - that I will do 200 plus in either of those movements.

[mobsterone]

My bodyweight is 18 stone or about 116 kilos. I hope to do over the current WR by August and may even get to DH's planned 130...

[Guest 115-1005574997]

well steve you can only do your best and if its better than everyone else, you win!!  :p

[jimwylie1]

Steve

You'll make up points on me on the pinch and wrist curl where I'm weak.  Should be pretty close for everyone in the open category I reckon.  I think Dave may have it in the bag again this year though as he is strong on everything.  You never know though, EVERYONE is capable of fluffing a lift on the day - It's pretty much game over if that happens

[Guest baldy]

Steve, thanks for clearing that up for me. It makes sense now.

David / Pat - About the vertical bar lift hook / no hook, here is another question: Does anyone do a 1" lift without a hook? I could understand on a 2" vbar where some people (genetic freaks) like Jim and Marc can hook and others (most people)can't, but on a 1" vbar anyone can hook that wants to. No one would have an "unfair advantage" due to larger hands that way, right? Is there a need for 2 divisions with a bar that anyone can hook if they desire?

[Guest 115-1005574997]

Jim

That’s the thing about competitions, you can throw it away with one mistake or over confidence.  But I don’t know Jim, you’ve still got 4 months and I recon its going to be VERY close indeed!  To win you need 6 good lifts not 2 good ones and 4 ok ones    

And don’t forget the novices will be just as hard fought!

A mate of mine won the world drug free powerlifting title last year in the >67k class.  He weighed in 66.6k while his rival was 66.9k (both had to get a little dehydrated on the morning to make the weight).  Anyway, Mark (my mate) lifted 190k in the squat to 200k then benched 115k to 120k  on the 3rd lift his competitor deadlifted 210k so mark had to lift 227.5 to win.  now marks PB in contest was 230k but he wasn’t sure he could do it.  he played safe and lifted 225k to tie with his opponent.  now as Mark was 300g (less than 10oz) lighter than the other guy, Mark got the title on bodyweight!!!

That other man must have been gutted!

But that’s competition and the experience of knowing what you can do and be cunning enough to now what you should do!

[Guest]

Baldy

I’ve tried hooking the thumb on the 2” V bar and it’s a waste of time. You can’t lift anymore and it just hurts.

[Guest 115-1005574997]

Baldy

I wouldn’t say Marc and Jim are FREAKS, they are perfectly nice, normal, gifted individuals.

Are people with no hair freaks when compared to people with hair?

Those with gifts will always gravitate to a certain sport.  Look at a long distance road race.  should anyone under 12 stone be handicapped to allow heavy built people an advantage?

Should the fastest sprinters only allowed to run bare foot when everyone else is allowed to use spikes?

I am 6 feet tall, have 6.5" wrists, have a medium build, weigh 75kg (166lbs) and my hands are 7.5" long (wrist to middle finger tip) 3.5" wide and have short fingers.  why am i telling you all this?  Ego?  Bragging?  I am no genetic freak but you dont see me winging about my limitations and disadvantages.  "Oh i would have won if I had his genetics"  or "If my hands were as big as his then ive have lifted as much as him".

What a cop out.

Im not having a go at you baldy, but use your post to illustrate the fact that if you decide to compete against others you MUST accept natural born gifts with no complaint.  Hook grips allow one to lift the maximum amount of weight, period.  If someone can use a hook grip on a 2" bar or hook 3 fingers under their thumb on the 1" then good on them!!

Dont make excuses in competition, work your hardest, develop to YOUR ability and give it your all.  Thats what a CONTEST is all about.  Pushing YOURSELF harder than you have ever done, but finding the BEST out of everyone!  ???

[Guest baldy]

Jim - Interesting. I wonder why this is? Anyway, cool that you have tried it.

Scott - I know you said you aren't "having a go" at me (if you are, that's cool too), and since we can't tell someone's full intent without conversing face to face, I am going to take you at your words. It sounds like I need to clear up a few things, though.

1.  The "freaks" thing is a comment meant as a compliment to Jim and Marc. I think that Jim is going to be one of the top guys ever in the game. He has the tools, the coaching, and the motivation. That "freak" comment is kind of a guy - thing jest meant in good fun. The way friends joke with one another. It should not be read any other way. How could someone pursuing our goals see huge hands as anything other than a gift?

2. I have yet to make the first excuse for my poor performances in anything, and I can't stand seeing others do so. If you miss a lift, you miss a lift. I don't give a crap if I have the flu or got my arm cut off, a miss is a miss. I equally hate to see people do the old "I could if only..." routine you mentioned, you won't catch me saying that either. In my workout log I was keeping here I had many strange incidents that MIGHT have contributed to lifts going worse than normal, but I never gave those  excuses. My ego doesn't require me to do that kind of thing, I lift for myself. No one else, just me.

3. You seem to enjoy lecturing all of us "non-competitors" on every aspect of competition. Have you ever competed in something other than grip events? Have you ever been in a stadium packed with thousands of people cheering and booing? Have you ever stepped into a ring across from a total stranger with 1200 beer drinking fans screaming? One of you will walk out, the other might have to be carried. If you have, hats off to you. If not, until you have, respect that some of us have. Many members here have proven ourselves in other arenas and don't necessarily feel the need to do so at this time in grip events. On this board some of us grip train to augment our primary sport, be that powerlifting or wrestling or NHB or American football or rugby or whatever. Some of us just do it for fun. Bottom line, a person's reasons are personal and you shouldn't try to impose your paradigm of reasons to train (or anything) on others.

Not trying to "have a go at you" Scott. BTW, good job making so many PRs lately, I meant to reply in the other thread but forgot.

To all un-involved parties reading this I apologize for the length of the post.

[mobsterone]

Does this mean a reverse grip isn't dodgy if Scott thinks it is??  :p

[Guest 115-1005574997]

Tim

Touché  

An excellent post and I know your not having a go.  But do i really lecture.  I apologise if I do.

I dont know what to say.  I agree with you in all parts of your post and dont think i need to defend myself.  Do I?

[Guest baldy]

Scott, no defense needed. Glad you came out with a smiley.

Also, I'm glad you finally called me "Tim". I wish I had the sense to have used my name like you did when I first logged on. It is funny what people come up with when pressed for a login name. I have a very simple thought process.

I also must confess that I laugh out loud when you guys say "dodgy". Does that mean "shady" or "questionable", or "illegitimate", or what? If I ever make it to one of David's competitions I need to know so I can insert it into casual conversation.

"I dunno guys, I think my last bearhug deadlift looked kinda dodgy..."