Looks Vs Performance

[Guest TDOGRPAGE]

I wanted to find out what everyone here thinks about this issue.  It is also a personal one for me since I have direct experience with this.  I know I have read here and other places including MOHS about how people nowadays are more concerned with how there biceps or abs look vs their weightlifting or grip performance.  Although I agree overall with this statement, I have to say that some people take this way too far.

Example, I used to be 6'0" 288 pounds.  I would compete in drug free "for what that's worth, still alot of juicers their" bench competitions.  I had a pretty strong bench and would dominate just about everone in the gym, but I also had a 42" waist.  I could throw up heavy weight like it was nothing, but walking up a long flight of stairs left me very winded at the top.  Not to mention a sore lower back sometimes.  To make a long story short, I decided one day, the strength wasn't worth it and to lose weight.  I decided to go on a radical diet that would cost me a lot of strenght, but would make me lose weight quickly.

I dropped poundage quickly, the only other thing that dropped quickly was my bench, "I lost about 1 1/2 pounds max bench for every pound of weight I lost."  At the end, I had lost a little over 70 pounds and had lost about 100 pounds off my max bench.  I wasn't as strong and it was depressing not being able to do a weight once that I used to be able to do for 8+ reps.  But I did feel a lot better and I still was stronger that just about anyone I know.  My pound for pound strenght was also slightly higher too.

Now the question is: Is it worth it?  You see some of these people Worlds strongest man, many competetors in that and other powerlifting events.  Benching, squatting tremendous amounts of weight, but many of them look considerably overweight for lack of a better term.  If someone told me right now I could bench press 650 pounds but I would have to increase my weight to 360, I wound't do it.  Despite how much I would like to be that strong, it just wouldn't be worth it, for health reasons if not for appearance.  

On the same term, I wouldn't work myself down to a perfect 6 pack ripped look if I could only barely bench 185 or close a trainer.

My point is IMHO, is there needs to be a balance, sure some people may pefere to go one direction a little more than the other, myself included, but I do believe there is a limit.  No amount of strengh is worth looking like #### and having poor health.  That's my opinion, I could be wrong.

[underdawg]

what you've said is very true.  i love strength, but there comes a point where health becomes an issue too.  to me a strong person should not only be able to move impressive weights, but also perform daily tasks without doubling over.  i don't really care anything about having a 6er, but i also don't want a keg.

[Guest Luke Reimer]

TDOGRPAGE

I know what you mean about the costs of stength.  This

winter I decided that extra strength wasn't worth being

softer, heavier, and potentially less healthy.  I stopped

battling to keep the extra weight on and came down 25-30

pounds.  No regrets.

--Luke

[Sybersnott]

Another thing you may or may not be aware of is.... strength fluctuations.

Sometimes I can close my #3 with ease.  Other times, I surprised I can close my BBM.  

Without a doubt, your health is the most important thing.  Now your lamenting about lost strength... I say, get back into the gym and work on getting it back.  I'm doing my O-lifts after years of NOT doing them.... I felt I needed to since I had no bodily strength (outside of my grip strength).  There were two incidents in my life that convinced me.  One, I went into a equipment store and tried to squat an empty bar.  The results were so embarrasing, I won't go into it.  Two, I went to my brother-in-laws' house for Thanksgiving, and he had a bench down in his basement.  I couldn't even BP my own bodyweight.

Now.... I'm squatting weight I didn't think I could, and my BP is very close to my bodyweight.  And I did it in a matter of months.

You can get it back.  You worked at getting the weight off.  Now, work at getting your original strength back.  You can do it!  I wish you all the best luck.... NOW GO TO IT!!!  

[Rick Browne]

Anyone here familiar with BMI? (body mass index). The American,Heart and Lung Institute say that doctors and researchers are now using it to determine body fat to lean mass. They have a calculator table that will give you your BMI.

It takes your weight in kilograms divided by height in meters squared. This determines your BMI. Then you look at the BMI ratings where you fall . It says if you are over 25 to 29.9 you are overweight. Over 30 and you are considered obese! Information in this field is leading to studies of increased health risks for heart disease, cancer, liver disease and diabetes, just to name a few.. and obesity is the culprit.  I believe in what they are saying about being overweight

8mos. ago I was  255 and I am 6`3. WHAM! all of a sudden I`m on blood pressure medicine! My doctor had no choice! She told me lose the fat or I`m a  dead man! And I do want to see my 50th birthday this year. With the thought of being calibrated as obese, it made me revamp my training to get down to 225 and off the blood pressure medicine, which I have done.. Anyway, guys think about your weight, cause it will cost you in the long run.

Why not go to a search engine and type in (body mass index). It will give you many webs. to go to and then you can find out where you stand

[MJlifta]

I think there might be a problem with the BMI, it has me at 25.7 and while that is on the low end of the overweight section, i have to say that there is no way im overweight.  My body fat% is like 7%, and while I might be heavy just due to my height and working out im not "overweight" in any bad sense...maybe that scale needs a couple more variables added.

[Rick Browne]

Actually, They do say that there is a given variable for weight trained athletes and you would get a better reading using a skin fold test with a fat caliper.

Like I said, I`m down to 225 and I`m rated at 28.1, still overweight by their charts.. I`m looking to get a fat caliper reading myself!

[BarBender]

I am not impressed by the MBI chart. It is not much different than older charts that forecasted ill-health based solely on height and weight. So-called health professionals are mesmerized by it because it has pretty colors.

[Rick Walker]

As far as weight loss and strength goes, I have noticed it the most in my squats.

I started dieting down a month ago this week.  My bodyfat was 19.5%, and I was about 230lbs.  As of yesterday, I was 210 with 14.5%.  I did this in a month.  I am working to get to 7% or less.

Before I started I was squatting 525 for easy triples with no belt, wraps, or suits.  Last week, I tried 405 for 8 and it about killed me.  Me knees were aching, my low back was tender.  When you loose weight, leverages change, and thus your whole squat changes.

I am now leg pressing until this insanity of weight loss is over !

But my bench and dead have remained strong.  I pulled 500 for 5 sets of 8 Tuesday and benched Monday with good weights.  My grip strength is remaining as well.

Rick Walker :hehe

[Guest Canthar]

The leverage changes cause the support muscles to work in different ways and especially in squats they make a huge difference. It is possible to be strong and not be "fat" aswell. This is where to dedication and hard work come in. You really have to kill yourself in the gym and then watch what you eat after to keep your bodt composition right. At 5'6" and now almost 200 I have 120/80 BP not sure on my body fat but considering  most of my pants are to big in the waist and my belt no longer fits I've trimmed down. Just to clarify that 200lbs. is a weight gain not lost. You can gain it but you have to want it like nothingelse. Push like #### in the gym and keep your food intake in the more healthy range. One day a week I have dinner with whatever I want (not too much though) and if anything it helps keep me sane. Well I have blabbered on enough here.

KEEP FIGHTING!!!

Nic

[AnimalCage]

I had my BMI checked two months ago.  Morbidly obese at 6', 250 lbs.  Now wait a minute.  Overweight, yes.  Morbidly? Hmmm.  I checked the internet, and found to be just obese I would have to weigh 224 lbs.  OK, that's do-able, I could lose 25 lbs.  But to be normal, I would have to weigh 184 lbs.  Yeah, that'll happen.  Maybe when I'm in the hospital with anorexia.

TD, I know the winded feeling that waits at the top of a staircase.  Goals are entirely individual.  My goal is for balance between strength and aerobic.  And if I was forced to choose, it would be health over strength.

[Guest Ike]

I agree-there should be a balance between looks/function.I never do aerobic workouts,and am pretty strong and very lean.I find that I am still fit-the weights did it for me.The other day I went on a 6 hour bike ride with my girlfriend ( it wasn't a constant 6 hours riding),she got knackered so I put a bike on each shoulder and climbed up the 200 or so steep stairs cut into the hillside.At the top I put them down a minute,then back on and up the rest of the hill (no stairs in this part).Yeah, I was breathing heavy but I was ok.Its good to be able to do this now and again-no point in just being good at lifting in a gym and nothing else.For the record.the next day I went to the gym and was just as strong as usual.

[Guest Monkey Paws]

You can have a low body fat % and still have a high BMI.  Even if it is all muscle that is pushing up your BMI, your body still has to do more work to survive.  Your joints still take more beating and your heart still has to work harder.  I would rather have a lower BMI then just low body fat.

Many athletes do better with lower body weight as long as the decrease in mass is achieved reasonably.  For me as a climber, better fitness means better performance on the stone and better part of being fit is not lugging around extra body mass (muscle or fat).

[MJlifta]

Is that true?  I dont know much about the pysiology of it but i was under the impression that muscle was good for you, true it drives up your BMI but thats only a number, and fairly meanlingless for all that.  I suppose the extra weight thing is a valid point but its one i havent considered, do you really think its bad for your health to be strong?

[paul valpreda]

Being strong is not bad for your health. Carrying too much weight/fat can be potentially dangerous in a number of ways. It's good to know your genetic background to see if you might be at risk for certain health hazards.

[RiotGrip]

As far as the comments that it is better to have a low BMI than to have low body fat--That is not correct.  The BMI is an average drawn from a large collection of many people's bodyweights and their individual morbidity and mortality.  Anyone who has trained and added 15-20 lbs of muscle to an average frame will be considered obese by the BMI standard.  However there are alcoholics with a normal BMI, but no muscle and over 20-25% bodyfat--that is not healthier than the "obese" weight trainer.  If all of your muscle is drug free, and your body fat is 15% or lower, you are healthy.  However you won't see too many people under 6'1" that are have this low of body fat and are over 230lbs completely drug free.  It happens, but these people are genetically gifted.  Also, if you are a large framed person with normal bodyfat and no added muscle from training, your BMI will still be too high by the number standard.  Anyone who trains with weights should use bodyfat% rather than BMI to determine if they are obese or not.

[Guest Brian S]

Look at those Strongman competitions on the television.  There's often some competitor or two in the background who might not win but not only looks reasonably slim, he certainly competes in the same league.  They're nearer the ideal for me.  I never want to be massively strong but unable to run for a bus.

[Guest Monkey Paws]

I am not an expert in body composition or health but it makes sense that the more efficient a body is the better.  From a lifters perspective strength is the goal and added pounds of mass can be beneficial.  I agree that the BMI scale isn’t perfect for athletes.  The last chart I looked at even had a little disclaimer on it to that effect.  It really isn’t that simple I guess because even though an athlete might be carrying around more weight, the benefits may outweigh the costs.  The heart can become stronger; and bone and muscle size/density can increase via lifting.

If you want to get strong to your potential then train, eat and rest but I wonder if it really is healthy to live with increased loads.  While most suggest fast metabolisms are healthy, it seems to me that a slow metabolism might add up to a longer life.  Less food, digestion, body breakdown, etc., might mean less wear and tear on the body.  So while some people think they are cursed with a slow metabolism, really they might just be burning life at a slower speed.

My opinions are influenced by my motivations for training.  As a climber I play with gravity and bodyweight plays an important role.  All different body types climb but in general (there are some notable exceptions) the most gymnastically difficult climbs are done be climbers with small frames and little muscle or fat.  I believe this is primarily because the lighter athletes have better strength to weight ratios.

Maybe I can be one of the exceptions.  I am definitely not ectomorphic, my frame is wider and I carry more muscle naturally.  At 172 and 5’10” I think I have a BMI of 25, which is at the upper end of healthy.  I had to diet to get here.  The lower end of healthy is 150 and I probably have more non fat body weight than that as it is.  I have probably almost reached my optimal body weight for climbing.  I really don’t think I could healthily diet down much more than about 7 to 10 pounds.  As it is I am probably at about 10% body fat so I still have some useless fat to burn away.  Supposedly only around 4 to 6% fat is necessary for health.

After loosing weight I can feel less straining on my muscles, tendons and joints and my endurance is improved.  I also have more climbing power with less absolute strength.  I think part of this is that some of my strength didn’t decrease that much with the weight loss.  Grip in particular remains strong and performance wise it is far superior.  I can’t bench like I did when I was heavier but I can still do all right.  The climbing moves that most requires benching type power/strength (mantles and presses) are my specialty anyway so not a weakness to focus on.

So that was long winded.  Whatever, I guess it is possible to be strong and healthy at many different body weights/compositions.  The one I choice to strive for is personal and motivated by more than just health.