Sybersnott Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 I just got my grippers back from PDA; some were seasoned and calibrated, and some were just calibrated. I decided to send John "two virgins".... er, let me explain!!!!! When I got my order from IronMind in December, I received two brand-new IM #3's. I decided NOT to touch them, or squeeze them, or do ANYTHING to them until I got them back from PDA. I wanted to see what would happen when I got them back from PDA. I had John season AND calibrate BOTH grippers. Here are the results: Virgin #1 - Closure torque (inch-pounds) [parallel handles/closed]: 292/370 Included Angles (degrees): 30 Skew Angle (degrees): 16 Virgin #2 - Closure torque (inch-pounds) [parallel handles/closed]: 247/420 Included Angles (degrees): 30 Skew Angle (degrees): 17 The thing that IMMEDIATELY caught my attention was the closing torque between one gripper and the other!! It's a difference of 50 pounds!!!!! :0 Do you realize what a HUGE difference that is?? Remember what has happened. I received TWO grippers, BOTH #3's AT THE SAME TIME - didn't touch them at all whatsoever, had both SEASONED and then CALIBRATED. Wow. ??? Maybe John was correct about the grippers being "dysfunctional toys". And Wanna.... I'll e-mail ya all the data I got from all my grippers so you can post it in the calibration thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Now, did you test drive both? Can you feel the difference or not? Not suprising at all Snott.... We all know they vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarBender Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Notice also that there is a 45 IP difference at parallel but favoring the gripper with the lower closing IP. That is, gripper #1 may feel harder at parallel than gripper #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Sybersnott, Are the handles of the 247/420 positioned deeper into the spring? With the included angles the same I would think that the harder gripper would have to be different in some way. If you can take precise measurements that would be good. If they are mounted the same, then I would have to conclude that the steel in the spring is somehow different because the included angle and handle mount seem like the two biggest factors in gripper variance. BTW, I find the fact that the parallel reading on the 420 is lower to be really weird. I don't see how that could be. Maybe spring bind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Hello Everybody, I am amused by the consisistent ramblings about the grippers still. Obsession is a difficult thing to overcome it seems. I have two of PDA's SOS grippers and have my other grippers stamped except for one number 4. The two SOS grippers are 456 and 499. They are difficult to close and the 499 is surprisingly easier than the 456 - not by much but it is easier. It sweeps in nicely and gets hard over the last 1/8" or so. The 456 is hard from the start but stays like this except for perhaps the last few millimetres. My Elite at 487 is harder than them both, it is VERY wide and hard all the way. My no.4 at 529 is SUPER hard and as yet defeats me everytime. My other non-stamped no.4 is close to 550 in my estimate and so we won't even talk about that one! So, what does this tell us? It says I can shut grippers tested up to 500 and that's about it really. I am still a LONG way off my 529 no.4 despite closing the other grippers. It also says that there is obvious variation in the grippers but really at the end of the day that's not important. If you can close a 520 and I can't then you are stronger than me - simple! Apparantly not. I dunno, I am missing the point perhaps but these grippers are one facet of all round grip training and most are chasing the no.3 to get on 'The List'. Good luck to you and I hope you make it. As for the no.4. Well, it STILL hasn't been done except for Joe Kinney. He DID it because he knew he could and trained like a mutha fugga to achieve his goal. I am amazed that some of these really big guys, with huge hands and tales of 'easy' closes of the no.3 haven't yet done the no.4. Perhaps it really is THAT hard? I don't think this applies to this post really now but I hope I have raised a few other points. I think the no.4 can be closed by someone with great genetics, great determination and a single minded approach to closing the no.4 and not much else. Someone will do it this year I am sure and there are at least 50 guys to choose from who are attempting this. Best of luck to you all and I hope that no one starts saying "but what's it's callibrated rating" when the no.4 is shut again. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Put a blow torch to your 4.... You'll shut it. BWAH! Just kidding. Kinney just didn't close the 4, he DOMINATED it. BIG difference. A "touch" with the 4 will still be a MILE away compared to what Kinney achieved. So, what did he do in training that no one else has done to date? Sorry, but I just can't buy "genetics" as the reason for the equivalent of a 3 minute mile in the grip world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 WHEN someone shuts the no.4 again they will have to dominate it to get the pictures to prove it. Those that have shut a no.3 know that it's not easy getting those pictures and to get them the no.3 has to be almost 'easy' to do so. I dunno why you think that genetics play no part in Joe's achievement Bill. In every sport genetics have their part to play, why not in the grip department too? There's no doubt that big hands, advantageous tendon attachments, muscle fibre recruitment and various other factors are at play with big grip lifts. It's not essential but these factors are a GREAT help. As for Joe's training. I think he has given everyone the full details now from what I can gather of his training to close the no.4 and STILL no one else is doing it. He can't do much more than tell you his routines and exercises and 'secrets'. IMO, his 'secret' was simple. Train really, REALLY HARD! AS yet no one else is doing this - me included. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Nick, have you seen Joe close the 4? The level to achieve a good pic is nowhere near the level he shows. He shuts it so hard you can hear the handles hit and then he puts lateral hand motion to HARD GRIND the gripper like it was nothing. BIG difference IMO than the level for getting a pic and being able to hold it shut for 5-10 seconds. Anyone who has done a hard grind for seconds, knows that's good for at least a triple or more. Yes, genetics played a role (obviously). My point is that his training, either what he did or how hard he did it, is really the key because of the level he achieved. I talked to Joe. He said on the picture day he was doing closes till the cows came home. 8-10 singles at least. He also said the reason no one else has closed it: They aren't training hard enough. I think there is a level of training...and then a "Kinney level" of hard training. He had no biases of what was "normal" in the strength game. Hence, no mental roadblocks or barriers. Whoops...just read your last line as I had skimmed your post. We agree 100%. I don't believe anyone has achieved that level necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted March 10, 2002 Author Share Posted March 10, 2002 Do you know what was REALLY surprising in the grippers I got back from PDA? The gripper I used to get certified with. This is a gripper I purchased in April of last year (at WannaGrip's request). At parallel, the torque is 173. At closure, it's 411. THAT'S really weird!! ??? ??? And Tom, I matched up both "virgins", and it appears to me that the 420 is just a stronger spring than the other one. I remember what Richard told me one time about the grippers. He said you could have one spring just a hair thicker than the other, and the difference will be a big one. I think that is the case here. One gripper is a "hair thicker" than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted September 11, 2002 Author Share Posted September 11, 2002 BTTT! For all the newbies and other doubting Thomases to enjoy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twig Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Hey, look at me! I just learned how to use the search function! What is the PDA, where is it, and how do you get them to season and callibrate grippers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SqeezeMasterFlash Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 PDA is our kind sponsor, they don't calibrate grippers anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twig Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Bugger. Does anywhere else do it? Or does anyone know how to accurately measure the force needed to shut a gripper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SqeezeMasterFlash Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 There are some different methods one can use, most of which are in the Equipment forum I belelive. Something about measure angles and distance from the spring. Tricky to use and not all that accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SqeezeMasterFlash Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Here's an article on this http://bigsteel.iwarp.com/Articles2/Grippe...ripperForce.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Cenidoza Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Snott, did you actually pay to have your grippers "seasoned"? Everybody: Send your grippers to me and I will season them for $5 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I have figured out a method for accurately measuring and calculating the closing torque of grippers, something very obvious that PDA overlooked. But the catch is that it takes more time and effort than I am willing to devote to this at the present time. Maybe someday though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 So John, as you have done in the past, you are hinting at knowledge, but not sharing it with the board. Seems pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersqueeze Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 It doesn't just seem pointless, it is pointless. Mike M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Yes, it is pointless to worry about gripper torque poundages especially since so much work would go into it. Close it or don't. Thanks for pointing that out Old Guy and Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Yes, it is pointless to worry about gripper torque poundages especially since so much work would go into it. Close it or don't. Thanks for pointing that out Old Guy and Mike. So, basically, you claim knowledge and are then able to get away without explaining any of it? I too have figured an exact way to calculate the effort required to close any given gripper adjusted for hand size, temperature and altitude. Unfortunately, I can't be bothered to go into it, or even to give interesting guidelines on how I would go about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Believe it or don't Chris, the choice is up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Thank you for your permission to believe or not John. I would have been all-a-quiver otherwise. As it happens, I see you as an intelligent man who more than likely has come up with a method or idea that may have been missed before. However, unless you intend at some point to "market" your concept (in which case it may have been best not to mention it?) your reticence to give any details comes across as somewhat peculiar. This is a discussion board, no? I am sure that there are many on this board (myself included) who would find value and be interested in any details you would care to give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timster Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 If one views John's signature, you can see he provides an email for interested ones to question him, if so desired... Sorry for my post... I am just excited as I am about to close the #2 gripper, and 4 or 5 months ago, I could not get within a half an inch from the #1... Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 (edited) If one views John's signature, you can see he provides an email for interested ones to question him, if so desired... So to discuss something mentioned on a DISCUSSION board one must take it offline? Interesting idea. Edited October 5, 2004 by The Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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