March 2005 Grip Decathlon

[Hubgeezer]

There was a "Grip Decathlon" in Southern California on March 26. I am going to see if the more technologically savvy Edgin can get the Excel spreadsheet posted on this thread.

The reason I would like to see it tossed out here for folks to analyze is that the scoring, done in an Olympic Track & Field Decathlon format instead of the Cross Country team scoring method(lowest score wins) is a very interesting concept to consider for contests. The large amount of events will show you how important the selection of events can be, and besides that, there were some very unusual events that were used in this contest that might be appropriate for others(Trap Bar Hold for time for example).

The writeup was done back in March, but I think the information contained in the spreadsheet is useful information for future productions by other organizations.

So, Clay will post it in this thread, in the next 24 hours, if everything goes right.

Hubgeezer

[Clay Edgin]

Here's the results:

http://www.castledarkmoor.com/strongman/gripcontest.xls

Excel Spreadsheet file.

I tell ya, I liked the decathlon scoring system because it rewarded you for being exceptionally strong in a certain discipline. In my opinion, it clearly quantifies how much stronger a person is at the events compared to the world record.

Edited June 16, 2005 by ClayEdgin

[handgripperman]

I cant open it, It says i need a file to open it with ?

[FrankyBoy]

You need either have Microft Excel installed or the Excel Viewer.

The viewer is available from Microsoft and is free:

XLViewer

[Jedd Johnson]

No idea what all those numbers mean. I am a moron.

-Jedd-

[Sean Dockery]

If memory serves the scoring sheet looks like this:

Name Event

Result

Points awarded

So:

I follow Clay Edgin's name over to the gripper column

3/25.8

896

Means Clay held a #3 shut for 25.8 seconds and was awarded 896 points.

Under the Hub column

I follow Mike Corlett's name over and find

55.5

640

Means Mike lifted 55.5 pounds on the IM hub and was awarded 640 points.

Hope that helps.

Edited June 16, 2005 by Sean Dockery

[Hubgeezer]

Okay, a word about the "Points"...

Dale Harder, a member of this Board(Old Timer) has written several books. One of them is called "You Can Compare Apples To Oranges". He has strength charts/tables in the book for different sports. Some of them represent thousands and thousands of bona fide results and are pretty damn good; Track and Field for example. I was a high school miler, and I will look to see how many "points" I had for my best mile, and then I look to see if my long jumping buddy was a better long jumper than I was as a miler.

In the book, he has power lifting, golf, many sports, including some grip events. The promoter of the contest, Kevin Meskew, used 3 different sources for his charts: Dale's book, Dale's unpublished events, and some that Kevin made up himself.

To the skeptical, let me toss out something that everyone here knows a little something about: Clay Edgin's crushing strength and the 100 meter dash. The world record in the 100 meters was set two days ago by a guy named Asafa Powell from Jamaica, in a time of 9.77 seconds. According to Dale's tables published 4 years ago(I imagine they are updated from time to time) that would equate to 912 points. Dale considers closing the #4 as 900 points. Clay Edgin held a poker chip between the handles of a #3 for 25.8 seconds, and that was the high point of the day at 896 points. It looks like breaking 10 seconds in the 100 is around 820 something points. On that event, I think it seems about right.

On the final event, which Clay won, holding a 505 pound trap bar for 48.59 seconds, he scored 443 points. Somehow, I don't think of Clay as a 11.45 second sprinter on that event, so obviously the chart on that baby is a little flawed(it was not made by Dale). It doesn't matter that it was flawed, as the same charts apply to all, so it is relative.

You'll notice that there is a bias towards #3 closers, in that I come out of the chutes over 300 points behind Kevin Bussi, but 9 events later finish 299 points below him. It makes sense to me, because most grip guys love grippers more than any other event, do KTA, etc. I don't, so it makes sense that I got toasted by the kids on that one. By the way, Meatloaf was making fun of me while I was doing the gripper event("Use some of that geezer power, heh, heh, heh"). He stopped laughing after I pulled 30 pounds more than him on the axle(I didn't make fun of him).

And if you read Clay's post on the contest almost 3 months ago, you would understand the low score on the Block. The IronMind Block is the equivalent of football's "muddy field", you never know what is going to happen with it.

This may be a dead end for other contests, or it may be something to stimulate discussion of things to consider in the future.

I hope this was of interest to you.

Hubgeezer

[dubthewonderscot]

Great write up! I found it very interesting geezer! Thanks!

Dale, where can your book be found? I think it would help several arguments among my friends be settled.

Weldon

[Clay Edgin]

W, email him at daleharder@comcast.net

[climber511]

I think the whole thing is pretty interesting. Grip, being such a realtively new sport, is still sorting itself out compared to long standing events like track and field. As the database becomes larger, we should get even better comparisons and charts. One (or a few) out of proportion performances will skew the results in a small pool more than a large one. One thing different in Track and Field compared to grip is that T&F are "pre sorted" so to speak. Only the faster guys run the 100 and only stronger guys throw the shot. In grip, everyone is doing all events, no pre sort so to speak. How would that affect the statistics?

[oldtimer]

Mike, Clay and others,

Thanks for the kind words about my tables. They're from the book "Sports Comparsions...You Can Compare Apples to Oranges". There's a rather complicated name for my web page, that a friend made, so to see more about it, please google "Dale Harder's Webpage" and then click on it.

The comment about the grip tables is a very valid one. First, I need to qualify the grip tables--that someone made about handgrippers being in a different stage of evolution than track & field is an astute one. I must say that handgripper points were predicated on a no-set close since this is the way I understand it was done by the leaders in the event like Richard Sorin, John Brookfield and others. In the new version of the book I suggest how to give an average adjustment for other sets.

Since sports are constantly evolving and handgrippers more so than say track & field, I've had to revise the tables-- hence the new edition. Probably powerlifting with the equipment changes was the area where the most adjustments were made. BTW even in the first book I treated each of the three power lifts and a power total in 3 different ways depending upon how the lifts were performed--raw, IPF, or in other types of competition--i.e. there's 12 PL tables alone. Again I had to treat that area as highly evolving because of advent of the new bench and squat suits. Who among us, four years ago, had foreseen a 1005 bench press?

Thanks again Mike and Clay.