The Plan

[Bill Piche]

The plan....

A lot of people have big goals in grip/strength.

The question becomes how important is a plan to reach the big goals?

Does it make much difference if one just flies by their seat and sets goals versus someone who has a full plan?

What's your definition of a full plan?

How do training logs fit in? Do you keep one?

[Jacko]

I keep a training log, it helps me to keep on path and is pretty motivational, seeing the weights go up over the weeks.

I've not set out any specific plans yet because my lifts are increasing each week (as is my hand/forearm strength), I think in a few years when I'm finding it hard to gain naturally using compound excercises I'll set out a more complex plan, maybe switch routines more often.

I have short and long term goals, but the short term are much more important to me.

Anyway, I personally think plans become more beneficial when you're a hard gainer or you're at a plateau.

[underdawg]

A training log and a set plan are very important to me. I set both long and short term goals and make a plan out to help me reach them. I don't always strictly adhere to that plan though, I think a little variety is always important.

[smp76]

Wannagrip,Apr 14 2005, 03:19 AM

The plan....

A lot of people have big goals in grip/strength.

The question becomes how important is a plan to reach the big goals?

I think that a plan is important to reaching big goals, and how important, real important.

Does it make much difference if one just flies by their seat and sets goals versus someone who has a full plan?

Sometimes I think that broken plans can lead to improvements because they can break you from routine, and conditioning to specific motions. However, I feel strongly about using a plan and sticking to it because a plan can carry you through the rough times and keep you focused.

What's your definition of a full plan?

My definition of a full plan is Goal-Plan-Diet-Execution of Plan-review of results-modification of Plan-review of plan once goal is reached or progress stops.

How do training logs fit in? Do you keep one?

For me training logs fit in with and as the documentation of the plan in action and how close you are following your own plan. I do keep one, either on the Board which helps because of the help and encouragement you receive from veterans or I write it in a book I have. Both are great tools for honesty and for looking at progress. I am LOL because I just saw a scrap of paper the other day from my garage that said "cheat bend on a 40d penny nail (pussy cheater)" and I can now DU 60d penny nails, it just makes you laugh when you see your improvements and keeps you going when you think your tank is running low.

-Sean

[HAMMERHEAD]

I think a plan is very important.

The funny thing is, I rarely follow my plan. I usually get derailed somehow. For examp. I've been knocked off my plan a couple times due to injury. So, I was forced to work different areas.

The log book for me is super strict or just non existant. Lately, I've been bending a lot. My main rule is to do more volume or a bigger bar each workout. I find that if I apply that basic rule I progress. It even applies to blocks, grippers, etc... for me. This is also super easy for me to keep track of so I don't have to write anything down.

Basically, I always achieve my first grip goal every workout. HAVE FUN! I know if this is maintained I will always get better.

-HH

[Gerald]

Interesting question. Re grip, I found it instructive that the Holle brothers evidently don't do anything fancy or formal, apart from squeezing really hard a couple of times on their target gripper. This would (gently) argue against the importance of a fancy routine.

[diesel]

my training has always been very instinctual. i have an idea of what i am going to do each day in the gym, but it is never really structured. i go in thinking hard and heavy, do some compound movements, and depending on how i feel, put in an arrangement of isolation movements.

the key for me is visualization for days beforehand. i always strive for one more rep or a little more weight, and i go through a routine in my mind for up to two days prior to the actual lift. i have a good memory, so i can always remember what kind of weight i did last time, reps, etc, and usually remember my training partner's weights too. it has worked for me for years, so as the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

grip however, has required me to much more rigid. KTA is rigid. i don't just pick up a gripper, give it a good squeeze, and call it a day. i feel like grip training requires a much more methodical thought process, as it seems, at least to me, that there exist more variables that may be at hand (at least from observation, etc, working your sweep, working your crush, thumbs, fingers, wrists, forearms, etc).

[jdav]

I think planning is pretty important when trying to reach any goal. It makes it easier to have a positive mental outlook on the given situation, analyze that situation, have points of reference in reaching the goal and find ways to tweak your plan for better results.

A full plan IMO would be a total strategy from beginning to end. A full plan should include all of your "sub goals" that will need to be met in order to reach your final goal. A full plan should also include steps of action such as when to change gripers, what reps to do when, and what particular exercises are going to be done at any given point to achieve a desired result (The KTA is an excellent example of this).

As far as a training log goes, I put circles on a piece of paper for what needs to be done in any particular workout and mark through the circles when that particular task is completed , when there are no circles let I am done.

Here's my plan..........

I want to close the #4 so here is how I am going to accomplish my goal:

currently I can close the #2. close, not dominate.

I am doing the KTA as if I were going for the goal of being able to close the #2. I figure this way, It will be much easier to use the #2 just as I an using the #1 right now when I go for the #3.

Basically, I am going to do KTA for each particular gripper until that gripper is mastered. then use it for overcrushes and strapholds for the next level.

I figure this way may take a little longer, but with the way things are going (third week) I'll be able to dominate the #2 my next time out.

I am not going to use any grippers other than the CoC grippers so that I will not have to many "sub goals" along the way.

my goals go like this:

dominate the #2

close #3

dominate #3

close #4

[showlarson]

Jdav- looks like a good plan, you've kept it simple which IMO is the way to go. I would rethink though not using any other gripper besides the COC's as the BB grippers offer two grippers inbetween the 3 and 4 (elite and super elite) they have been most useful to me and it is easier to see progress on those than on the 4 which might barely move at his point. Again, that is just my opinion.

On the subject of plan for myself I really don't keep much of a log. I try to keep a fairly consistent workout schedule training mostly thickbar and grippers now.

[Geo]

My training is planned -sort of.

I set goals for myself and then my training reflects this. Its a rough plan that I have in my head before I set out to achieve one of these goals and it may or may not get modified along the way.

So I know that for one week I will be doing for example...

Warm up

5 sets negatives with RB260

5 sets timed holds with HG300

5 sets negatives with ISG.

...and then different the next week and so on but I always know what I will be concentrating on at the begining of the week.

However, I cant stand to write things down! Ive tried it and I hate it. The only thing I do do is that I pencil in the amount of sets on the inside of my chalk box using a tally (for grippers)

Edited April 14, 2005 by Geo

[Matt Brouse]

If what you had planned isn't effective or isn't going to be...screw it, grab the seat of your pants and start flying.

[rying]

A plan is very important. I don't believe in "instinctive training" or "listening to your body" or any of that crap. Face it, your body doesn't want to train!

"Each time you step into the gym you should know exactly what you are going to do."

--Leo Costa

"Assigning yourself a workload and making sure it gets done is what will guarantee your success."

--Joe Kinney

I plan out a cycle of workouts over several weeks with specific goals. Then I keep a journal and plan each workout beforehand, perhaps making slight adjustments from my blueprint.

Using the same routine and trying to progress linearly doesn't work for most advanced hardgainers. Nor does "instinctive" training. Next weeks progress is dependent on this weeks conditioning. Maybe my goal with this weeks 2x per day training is not progress, just survival. Then during next weeks 1x per day training my goal will be PR's every workout.

Every time I follow my plan exactly, I progress like clockwork. Often I've had to scrap the plan (for whatever reason) and "just train" (still keeping a journal but no rigid cycle)--usually no progress whatsoever.

I use the ISG alot now. I choke it to 1" set (with a ruler wedged behind the stoppin) and do unbraced singles and write down the date I achieve each higher level (using the poundage chart to gauge). Then I can evaluate how well my plan is working alot better than just "trying the #3".

[Jedd Johnson]

I have goals of feats I want to complete. However, I do not make a plan because at the same time I want to get stronger at everything. This works for me because I am most interested in finishing well at contests, due to my love of competition. But at the same time, I enjoy milestones.

Sometimes I think people get too worked up about defining each individual step of the plan they have, i.e. worrying about sets and reps. IMO, improvement is what you want to see. If you are not seeing improvement, or if you are not happy with the improvement you ARE seeing, then you must make a decision to either wait it out and see if something different happens, or you must make adjustments.

This strikes people as weird however. "How many sets and reps" was the question we got asked last summer when we presented at the PA NSCA clinic. "Don't worry about it," was my answer. My lack of explaining that rebuttal got me poor reviews from the peer evaluations.

Work your weaknesses, keep goals in mind, and constantly judge your progress. Just a few keys to success.

I keep no journal because I think it is a waste of my time for me. Writing down every little thing - not for me. I tried that for a while and eventual just said to hell with it. I mainly track PR's and best performances (mentally), and if I forget my PR or my best performance, then I see that as just not being very good then, and move towards re-establishing my best performance, or standard as I have called it in the past.

I heard one time that the band "The Black Crowes" never used to write anything down when they were developing new songs. The guy said if he couldn't remember what came into his mind, then it must not have been good enough.

By the way, I have seen it written that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results - there is a lot of truth there, I think. (Of course I have also heard that if you fail to plan, then you plan to fail....)

-Jedd-

[mooinabc1]

Me I love the woods I know the being ready and know where I going.

[Dan Cenidoza]

I couldn't agree more with Jedd's post. My thoughts exactly.

One thing I would like to add, is that you'd be a fool not to "listen to your body."

[BigT]

for me keeping a log on here is very motivational and inspiring. I hope I can help others who are coming up behind me in some way. Having a plan just lets me go on day to day knowing things are working and I just have to be patient. My goals might be, "file a little more off this gripper, hold this overcrush a second longer, push this negavtive farther...as long as I'm getting some type of improvement, I'm a happy guy I'm getting better all the time thanks to just taking life like grippers "one close at a time".

[bender]

There are definitely two types of people out there. The instinctual trainers and the planned trainers.

I've received a number of e-mails about work out advice. I say train what you feel like training. Have an idea of what you want to accomplish, and work towards it every day. "Listen to Your Body" and train as hard as you can, but don't forget to recover as hard as you can.

Then people reply with: But what should I do on Mondays? Which exercise? How many reps? What intensity?

To which I reply: The exercises you feel like doing, for as many reps you feel like doing, and as hard as you can safely do them.

To which I receive a reply: Ok, how about this work out (structured work out plan attached).

Then I reply: That's fine, if you feel like doing it that day.

I HATE plans, I HATE structured goals, and I've never failed to meet a goal I set for my self. Except the blob and the Red... But those will come soon. The goals just got pushed back some 18 months.

On the other hand, I like long term general plans. Such as figuring out what to do during 6-week blocks to keep things fresh and unique while being focused on a long term goal.

But then goals change! Life changes, your knees change for the sudden , you move, you get married, you change jobs...

[rying]

One thing I would like to add, is that you'd be a fool not to "listen to your body."

When I made the statement that you shouldn't "listen to your body, I realize there is a fine line here. If you truly feel injured then you must stop or change something. If the pain/soreness/discomfort is telling you to stop then you have to make a choice.

I would like Wannagrip's response to this or Rick Walker's. I know that if you listen to your body you'd never make it through KTA. And Blob KTA--forget about it! Your hands are hurting and torn up, and strength is going down. Your body is telling you "stop, this is bad, take a day off". You must force it to adapt and stick to the plan. The results for those that do are worth it.

Even Joe Kinney said that listening to you body is bad if you want max results. His training was a life and death struggle into bloody territory and beyond. If his plan was 60 negatives in a workout, he did them regardless of how he felt...and only counted the good reps!

Once you're advanced you can start to "feel" when you're over/under trained and when it's time to change things up. I believe that for best results, you must push your body into acute overtraining, at least sometimes. Only you can decide when you've had enough. Sure, the risk of injury is there. Maybe Joe Kinney took it too far?

For you guys who make great and consistent gains training "instinctively" and not getting too exteme, I applaud and envy you. I trained like that and it didn't get me very far. I need a plan.

[Rick Walker]

Jedd and I basically discussed this last night for about 2 hours. Our take on training boiled down to this: find your weaknesses, work the shit out of them, then move on to the new weakness and repeat. Pretty basic and pretty easy.

Do you need a plan? Absolutely. I don't think any one is arguing that you don't. If you just go to the gym and go through the motions, you are just spinning your wheels. It is a waste of time and energy. However-plans can differ. Jedd may go to the gym knowing what he wants to accomplish-he just doesn't know exactly how is going to accomplish it until he gets to training and feels things out. Take overheads for example. There are a vast amount of exercises you can do to help your overhead. Instead of knowing exactly what he is doing, and never changing, he goes in and does it. Maybe he will decide to use the log. maybe he will use bands. Maybe he will do lockouts. Maybe he will do strict presses. Etc. Etc.

I am a little different. I have certain exercises I will use for 6-8 weeks, then I will change it up. I constantly push for a new record-it may be a 10 rep max, it may be a single, but I stay the course with those exercises until I feel I have reached my potential with them at that time-then I move on. I know when I go to the gym and I am training overheads, I am going to do: strict standing overheads, machine overheads, 1-arm db chest press, heavy t-bar rows, mashine tricep work, db tricep extensions, and db hammer curls. I know that is what I am going to do-and I go in looking to hit prs in weight, reps, and time.

We both have "plans" they just differ in the way we use them.

I think some of you are reading the "listening to your body" thing too much. I agree with Dan on this-you have to listen to your body when it comes to training. If you are hitting it hard 4-5 times a week-heavy squats and deads, heavy event work, etc. and you suddenly feel like shit-it is time to re-evaluate and see where the problem is. This is listening to your body 101. I do this every day. Take yesterday for example. For the past week I have been limiting my carb intake to ensure that I stay at 231 or below for the upcoming Pittsburgh's Strongest Man contest. I went from weighing 234 fully clothed to 231. That is a pretty big weight loss for 1 week. When I did deadlifts yesterday-I felt it. I felt off and the calorie restriction made itself known. Instead of getting pissed and cursing a poor workout-I strapped the food bag on yesterday consuming cans of tuna, potatoes, rice, oatmeal, chicken protein drinks, etc. Today, I feel GREAT. Event work today should be awesome. Again-this is listening to your body.

If you fail to read the signs-then you will fail. Period.

Now-onto the hands, since this IS the gripboard.

In my opinion, and there are many who disagree with me, the hands are different from the body. The hands re used to being used constantly. They are designed that way-to withstand constant flexing and relaxing. Look how much we use our hands when we type! Repetitive motions. In order to shock and stimulate the hands to get stronger-you have to take them to the next level. To me, the next level is daily hard training. If you don't think the hands can be trained every day-you only need to look at hard laborers. Fellas that swing hammers for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week. Fellas that work with steel, build houses, etc. This kind of work, if you aren't used to it, will run you over. But these guys do it every day-they have become accustom to it. So if their hands can take the abuse of swinging a heavy hammer all day-why cant our hands take the abuse of a 30 minute workout evey day? I think they can! Just like the laborer, we reach a point of fatigue and weakness-then you blow right through it and everything gets easy again as you get stronger. This is what I, and Wannagrip, believe about training the hands.

[ryaneverk2]

So if their hands can take the abuse of swinging a heavy hammer all day-why cant our hands take the abuse of a 30 minute workout evey day?  I think they can!  Just like the laborer, we reach a point of fatigue and weakness-then you blow right through it and everything gets easy again as you get stronger.  This is what I, and Wannagrip, believe about training the hands.

←

Hence, KTA 1 and 2!

Good post, Rick. Makes a lot of sense.

[rying]

Good post Rick. And I pretty much agree with you.

I think people are missing my point about listening to your body. Of course you do. Sometimes you will know that you need to make a change, and you certainly don't want to get injured.

I'm just saying that sometimes listening to your body when you feel overtrained and then backing off can be counterproductive.

This is especially true when a person first makes a change from say once a week training to daily training.

This happened to me a couple years ago. I was a HIT disciple. I trained once a week. I was absolutely convinced that it took me a week to recover. And because I was so used to training this way it did!

So I tried daily training--and pressing every day. By the end of the first week I was feeling like shit and my strength was starting to drop. I was so convinced I was overtraining that I almost threw in the towel and went back to the infrequent training that wasn't working before.

Luckily I had studied up on this (frequent training) and I knew I might lose some strength initially. Even though it seemed like it wasn't working and I was overtraining, I stuck to the plan and broke through PR's by the 3rd week and made awesome gains in the following months.

Sorry Bill if this stuff is getting a little off your original topic, but my point is that when trying a new approach you should give it a chance to work and stick to the plan even if your body is telling you you're "overtrained" at first.

Writing stuff down in a journal gives objective feedback about what worked and what didn't. Takes away some of the guesswork. I believe in variety and working the weak points, but I do it in a very structured way so I can analyze my results "by the numbers".

[Scott Styles]

I have a hard time buying into the laborer analogy for driving how one should train grip. Most people who work labor for prolonged periods of their lives come away with a lot of injuries. Those whose bodies are not capable of that level of work are forced to quit by injury. There are selection mechanisms at play there.

I do think a plan is essential if you are going to come close to achieving what you are capable of. I don't know that every rep and set needs to be tracked, but you do need to be monitoring what is done over time and adjusting based upon the results that are produced. It's clear that you guys who have found the daily grip training worthwhile have done just this.

Of course, this all assumes that getting stronger is the #1 priority. At a certain point it may be wise to assess your strength and decide it is sufficient. The stronger you get, the greater the chances of it creating damage that makes you weak later in life. Do you want to be strong now and strong later, or just really strong now?

[Gerald]

Of course, this all assumes that getting stronger is the #1 priority.  At a certain point it may be wise to assess your strength and decide it is sufficient.  The stronger you get, the greater the chances of it creating damage that makes you weak later in life.  Do you want to be strong now and strong later, or just really strong now?

←

Outstanding point. The concept of "strong enough" is one I wish I'd paid more attention to when I was younger, felt invincible, and was convinced that doing well in the contest du jour was just about the most important thing on earth. It isn't.