Bill Piche Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Given that we all have fixed genes, how much is knowledge worth in the potential equation? Let me expand. Say you have two gripsters of equal genetics. Even exact twins. How much will knowledge (including proper coaching and mentoring) provide to make a difference in reaching their ultimate potential? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Given that we all have fixed genes, how much is knowledge worth in the potential equation?Let me expand. Say you have two gripsters of equal genetics. Even exact twins. How much will knowledge (including proper coaching and mentoring) provide to make a difference in reaching their ultimate potential? ← Knowledge always has the advantage; it is the roadmap to success. Plato said that ignorance is the root of all misfortune. If the twins played against each other in a game of darts, the one not wearing a blindfold would have an advantage. Same with training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 The 2 being physically equal,the 1 with the most desire and motivasion will always win. Useing myself as an example,i was born 6weeks premature and was under 4lbs bodyweight,my brother was born 10lbs 10ounces,he is 5 years younger yet bigger and heavier than me and has never touched a weight,we have both worked construction most of are lives,he still does,i do not,yet i can outlift him on anything any day of the week dispite being,older,and lighter,the difference,mental intensity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolf Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 (edited) Plato said that ignorance is the root of all misfortune. ← Well, Plato also said that man is "a featherless biped", which inspired Diogenes to take a plucked rooster to Plato's Academy. Seriously, I think a lack of knowledge can stop all your gains. This, of course depends on the level of one's ignorance and the ability to learn from mistakes. If, for example, one of the twins due to ignorance trained constantly s/he would make zero progress. If s/he would never realize there was something wrong, s/he would keep making zero progress, most likely get injured, and at minimum regress until Judgement Day. So, as all good philosophical disussions start: could you please define the terms more precisely? Rolle Edited April 13, 2005 by rolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted April 13, 2005 Author Share Posted April 13, 2005 The 2 being physically equal,the 1 with the most desire and motivasion will always win. Not picking on ya Gazza but... Let's see if we can stay on topic and try to address what I asked in the first post. Knowledge is what this topic is about not desire and motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Good posts lately Bill! Say you have two gripsters of equal genetics. Even exact twins. How much will knowledge (including proper coaching and mentoring) provide to make a difference in reaching their ultimate potential? All things being equal, the athlete receiving the proper instruction and motivation will be better then the athlete who doesn't know what he or she is doing. Of course, then you open a whole new can of worms! For some athletes-sets of 20 on the grippers may take them to the promise land. For others-it may be singles and doubles. So who is to say what the proper coaching and mentoring is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagual Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Good posts lately Bill!Say you have two gripsters of equal genetics. Even exact twins. How much will knowledge (including proper coaching and mentoring) provide to make a difference in reaching their ultimate potential? All things being equal, the athlete receiving the proper instruction and motivation will be better then the athlete who doesn't know what he or she is doing. Of course, then you open a whole new can of worms! For some athletes-sets of 20 on the grippers may take them to the promise land. For others-it may be singles and doubles. So who is to say what the proper coaching and mentoring is? ← Exactly. I believe that finding your own specific path to optimal progress is essential, i.e. the optimal correlation between volume/frequency/intensity, and also the best method. Expanding your knowledge will expand your possibilities as to what might work, and what is worth trying. It's especially important to the genetically impaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotGrip Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Good posts lately Bill!Say you have two gripsters of equal genetics. Even exact twins. How much will knowledge (including proper coaching and mentoring) provide to make a difference in reaching their ultimate potential? All things being equal, the athlete receiving the proper instruction and motivation will be better then the athlete who doesn't know what he or she is doing. Of course, then you open a whole new can of worms! For some athletes-sets of 20 on the grippers may take them to the promise land. For others-it may be singles and doubles. So who is to say what the proper coaching and mentoring is? ← I think even with grip, coaching will play a huge role. Let me rephrase wanna's question and see what people think. Say you have two gripsters of equal genetics, one is coached by Joe Kinney, and John Brookfield for a year; the other trains with the same intensity but is left completely to his own experimentation with grip exercises--will the knowledge gained by the former make a difference in who reaches their ultimate potential? I think if you look at that way, the answer is obvious. The best (or the wealthiest) athletes in any sport will seek out the best coaches. Even in grip, no matter how one responds to training a good coach can maximize any individual's performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digdogz Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Wanna wrote: "Say you have two gripsters of equal genetics. Even exact twins. How much will knowledge (including proper coaching and mentoring) provide to make a difference in reaching their ultimate potential?" I am a genetically identical twin (98.8% Genetic similarity as per twin studies performed on us, our fingerprints are also so similar they cannot be submitted as evidence!) my twin and I have practised grip for a few years now and I'll tell you this much.....Knowledge is key! While I can crush to dust the IM #2s I have, my twin has been working on the #2 for a long time now despite starting at the same point. The reason? He refuses to apply any consistancy to his training and also takes offence when I have (repeatedly) tried to teach him how to set the gripper....Siblings Eh! His refusal to jump weights on wrist curls, leverage work etc...etc...etc... the list could go on but I know his potential, I live and breath it! The reason he lags behind me is because he does not: - Go on the gripboard everyday - Train to learn tips and techniques - Sit down and think about his progression So wannas question about reaching his ultimate potential?? Maybe he will and it will take him a looooooooooong time compared to me or maybe he won't and when, with his 7" paws he's still trying to no-set the #3 in 20 years time he may think to himself 'maybe I should have listened to my twin! My 2cents, Digz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanna Be Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 (edited) Let me put a little twist on this topic: I assert that task-specific knowledge will make the person more confident in his ability to accomplish the endeavour and therefore will probably give him/her an advantage, albeit maybe temporary over the other person. I think is more mental(i.e. If you think you can, you can) than physical. If you are trained by the best(i.e. Brookfield, Kinney, et. al), then you will be more likely to BELIEVE that you can do what you have been TRAINED to do. I am still trying to find the right spot to open the proverbial can of worms concerning my real thoughts concerning our existence and the environment to which we allow ourselves to be a slave to. Once those chains are broken, you then will be able to achieve ANYTHING. Edited April 13, 2005 by Wanna Be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjkd12 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Knoweldge is not just good, it is essential. A lot of us here already have a good base for knoweldge, so I think we take it for granted. Without ever coming to the board, I still think I would have progressed well with grippers since I have a basic understanding of how the body works and what principles are important for strength gain. Take someone who has never seen a gym or a barbell and tell them to get strong. They wouldn't have a clue to what most exercises work and anything about sets/reps. With that said, assuming both have knoweldge, then obviously someone who has more and all other things being equal will do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAHotSauce Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 (edited) knowledge/wisdom is the KEY! you can have a person with the genetics/ability to be a great... whatever, wrestler, grappler, gripster, etc Without knowledge/wisdom, pretty much useless. It gives you a way to hone and channel the ability. I view knowledge similar to technique. RL Edited April 13, 2005 by LAHotSauce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digdogz Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 "Power without knowledge is spiritually useless and so therefore of no real value" Shuriuken - Fist of the North Star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdav Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I'd say the one with the knowledge will probably fair better. Training grippers isn't really like lifting weights or anything so it's not really something you can just pick up easily without someone giving you a little "how to". I, for instance, would just keep trying to close the gripper I was trying to close over and over agin until I got it. I did that with the #1 and #2. I got the KTA and my gains have come a lot faster..... Even on week 3 I can really see a difference. my vote is for the guy with knowledge. Knowledge would make a huge difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Depends on were the knowledge is comeing from. One to one training will always be better than a video or book. But it also depends on who gives the one on one coaching. Alot also depends on how the person grasps and uses that knowledge. 2 people can be taught by the same person,read the same book or watch the same video,one of the persons will always learn quicker than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rying Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Knowledge is the key for an individual to reach their potential, whatever that may be. I would rank knowledge as exactly equal to desire/motivation in the success equation. Having one or the other will not get you there alone. You must have both. Of course, you might say that desire will motivate the individual to seek more knowledge. Not always true though. My roommate trains hard and never misses workouts. He loves grip training too. I often give him training advice and routines, which he sometimes asks for. I've also offered that he could read any of my great books for inspiration and training tricks: Dinosaur Training, Milo, MOHS..., even KTA. He has not even glanced at any of these! He simply has no interest in reading/studying about training. He also resists my advice to keep a training journal (I have records of every workout going back 8+ years!). He even trains while he's watching TV, which drives me absolutely crazy... and then tries to convince me that he's serious about reaching his potential... and strange enough I believe he is. He would rather just have me tell him what to do so he can just do it without thinking about it. Arrrgh! Some very motivated people just need a coach, and even then may remain stubborn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Hah, depends on what you me by "knowledge". I mean, it can make up to a 100% or more difference, if you have absolutely no idea on the basics of training. Okay, if you are talking somebody is knows the absolute basics, such as hard work, consistency, and progression, I think the little "tweaks" and extras can help 10-20%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 And this comes from a little bit of relatively recent experience with grip training. Only in the last year or so have I seriously been studying grip training. In the past, I would usually just work hard, then try to do more the next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle102887 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Take Armwrestling as an example....the weak guy can win.....when he has more knowledge of armwrestling than the strong guy...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonL Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Its like one needing Intelligence and Expereince. Some people seem to trade one for the other, but we need both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve B. Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Gaza makes a good point.If the knowledge is from a bogus source like maybe a gym know it all that has nothing to show himself from the advice he is giving i think this can be a bad thing and maybe even dangerous to a complete begginer.Come to think of it many muscle mags give workout routines(knowledge) of the pros but rarley give the routines that they got started on as beginners. I once won a 100 dollars from a guy that claimed he could out deadlift me.He was a largley muscled football player.His knowledge in leverages(physics) was lacking and tried pulling with the bar far away from his body and a rounded back.Iwas happy to see this as he could only pull 500lbs. a few inches off the floor.I myself a skinny wrestler pulled a triple.Needless to say the cash was mine and a little good knowledge went a long way in my case.So good knowledge will take someone past his equal IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlefiend Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Wanna wrote:"Say you have two gripsters of equal genetics. Even exact twins. How much will knowledge (including proper coaching and mentoring) provide to make a difference in reaching their ultimate potential?" I am a genetically identical twin (98.8% Genetic similarity as per twin studies performed on us, our fingerprints are also so similar they cannot be submitted as evidence!) my twin and I have practised grip for a few years now and I'll tell you this much.....Knowledge is key! While I can crush to dust the IM #2s I have, my twin has been working on the #2 for a long time now despite starting at the same point. The reason? He refuses to apply any consistancy to his training and also takes offence when I have (repeatedly) tried to teach him how to set the gripper....Siblings Eh! His refusal to jump weights on wrist curls, leverage work etc...etc...etc... the list could go on but I know his potential, I live and breath it! The reason he lags behind me is because he does not: - Go on the gripboard everyday - Train to learn tips and techniques - Sit down and think about his progression So wannas question about reaching his ultimate potential?? Maybe he will and it will take him a looooooooooong time compared to me or maybe he won't and when, with his 7" paws he's still trying to no-set the #3 in 20 years time he may think to himself 'maybe I should have listened to my twin! My 2cents, Digz ← I have a twin brother and he is the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonL Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 cool and interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I once won a 100 dollars from a guy that claimed he could out deadlift me.He was a largley muscled football player.His knowledge in leverages(physics) was lacking and tried pulling with the bar far away from his body and a rounded back.Iwas happy to see this as he could only pull 500lbs. a few inches off the floor.I myself a skinny wrestler pulled a triple.Needless to say the cash was mine and a little good knowledge went a long way in my case.So good knowledge will take someone past his equal IMO. ← In your case, you had knowledge combined with good technique and skill. Congrats with your cash win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyGripper Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Knowledge is the key for an individual to reach their potential, whatever that may be.I would rank knowledge as exactly equal to desire/motivation in the success equation. Having one or the other will not get you there alone. You must have both. Of course, you might say that desire will motivate the individual to seek more knowledge. Not always true though. My roommate trains hard and never misses workouts. He loves grip training too. I often give him training advice and routines, which he sometimes asks for. I've also offered that he could read any of my great books for inspiration and training tricks: Dinosaur Training, Milo, MOHS..., even KTA. He has not even glanced at any of these! He simply has no interest in reading/studying about training. He also resists my advice to keep a training journal (I have records of every workout going back 8+ years!). He even trains while he's watching TV, which drives me absolutely crazy... and then tries to convince me that he's serious about reaching his potential... and strange enough I believe he is. He would rather just have me tell him what to do so he can just do it without thinking about it. Arrrgh! Some very motivated people just need a coach, and even then may remain stubborn! ← ROFL!!!! What a funny post rying!!! Could have not described myself better!!!! Some people drive there own car to reach there destination. Some peolple take the bus to reach there destination. We both end up in the same place its just a matter of choice on how you get there!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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