Titles on this board

[Bill Piche]

Someone mentioned to me that Strossen seemed irritated that COC's are being mentioned here before it is a done deal (or words to that affect).  I don't change the sub-titles until all is a GO from IronMind.  So, if I have made an error in that respect with those not fully a GO from Ironmind please let me know so I can correct the title until IronMind says it's a done deal.

Thanks.

[Guest baldy]

On that FAQ that terminator pointed out to us, IronMind seemed to attack PDA, the grippage, and anyone who had closed a number 4 gripper other than Joe Kinney (though Strossen himself said that Brookfield closed one with the spring steadied by the off hand in MOHS). Maybe I just read the FAQ wrong.

[Sybersnott]

You bring up a good point, Wanna.... I really don't know what's going on over there at IronMind.  

I sent all my certification details to IronMind in mid-December.  Now it's February, and I have yet to hear about my certification or anything like that.  About two weeks ago, I called them to find out what's going on.  I was told that yes, they did get my package and that I will be getting my certificate soon - however, I missed the latest deadline on MILO, and that I will appear in the June 2002 issue.

[terminator]

I think you guys are really wrong here.  When I first started posting here, I thought it was a only bunch of guys interested in grip and helping each other to new levels.  I shared my triumph of certification with the group in the spirit of camaraderie.  It didn't become apparent to me that this site was sponsored (funded?) by PDA until the server switch.  I guess I should have done my homework first.  

Dr Strossen has every right to be angry, even though I don't or can't speak for him, I can understand why he might be a little perturbed.  I don't think people are considered official until they are in MILO and then added to Ironmind's list.  You (wannagrip) of all people should respect that.  Why should you be able to copy his own copyrighted list, then update it and post it on a board funded by his "competitor".  Remember, he owns the certification list, it IS his innovation.  

Remember who gave you opportunities to write for his magazine.  Remember who gave you the opportunity to be in a respected worldwide publication alongside some of the greatest strength athletes in history.   Without Dr Strossen you and countless others on this board would be virtually anonymous in the strength world.  Now you are sought out by enthusiastic trainers who respect you and your methods because of your accomplishment (COC).  Don't spit on what got you there.  This whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Baldy, you are way off as well.  I don't think you were a member of the board at the beginning of all this.  Ironmind's FAQ is in my opinion a well thought out response to a sustained one-sided bashing of Ironmind's grippers on this board a while back.  As an engineer with no financial gain at stake, I cannot disagree with any of his comments.  You forget something else, nobody else has closed a #4, according to the rules, except Joe Kinney PERIOD!!!

[AP]

but nor can ironmind spit on its customers.

that faq seemed to me like a direct attack on richard sorin. if strossen thinks he can win over us by attacking a legend he is wrong! Captain of crush is a distinction earned by a dedicated trainer, if strossen wants to take it back We'll come up with another name. ironmind is not grip, they simply provide us the tools- wannagrip has earned the  respect  given to him.

having said that, ironmind is an excellent company that produces innovative and high quality products- i hope to buy from them in the future. PDA also has every right to compete against them- i hope to buy from them in the future as well.

on this board much respect is given to ironmind products, cocs, milo, bag of nails, ect. ironmind should respect a forum

for in depth discussion by some of the world's best grippers as well...

[Bill Piche]

Pat, this site/board has probably increased the list big time and $$ income to him big time. Sorry, but we are in the info age.  And, if someone here who gets certified tells all, then it's PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE.  What am I supposed to do, go around policing the board and removing posts around the web when they tell someone? What's done on the board site is AFTER the fact.  If there was a big problem (I mean how many VISIT this board?), I am sure he would have said something and then it is up to THAT INDIVIDUAL to keep their mouth shut.  

Thanks for putting it all on me and this site/board.

Quit talking with emotion and that everyone is out to conspire rather than fact.  Just like when I pointed out the FACTS to you last time.

P.S. PDA is a sponsor and always has been.  It has NOTHING to do with this discussion. Where have you been?

P.P.S. My goal was never to be "famous" Pat. Oh, and again you should get your facts straight about when and what I have written before  jumping the gun with out of control emotion rather than FACTS.  The article in MILO was in March 2000.  Here's a FACT for you. I started writing articles for magazines in March 1996!

[Bill Piche]

Now you are sought out by enthusiastic trainers who respect you and your methods because of your accomplishment (COC).

This is bull by the way. Actually, quite funny.  Hey, all you guys out there seeking me out, sure glad my "methods" worked for you!  :hehe

Next out is my book of course.  And of course conspired to be published by PDA.

[Roark]

Facts cannot be copywrighted. And the argument that

the the spreading of facts must wait to come from a certain

source, falls as much on the man (in this case) who closes

the #3 as it does on anyone. Keep it quiet until it comes out

in MILO, then everyone will be happy. Oh yeah, that's

human nature!

Thankfully we do not have to wait for other lifting records

to become public knowledge until they are revealed in a

publication owned by the makers of the equipment. Can you

imagine if the 600 pound clean & jerk happens this month

in Italy but it must be kept quiet until Eleiko gives the

okay to tell people? Or that when David Horne pinched 143

pounds he had to get clearance from Weider to let us know?

Finally, has a ban been put against Strossen also sponsoring

the Grip Page? I suspect not. But in fairness to Randy, has

he made it known that he is upset with the situation or is

this a rumor?

[Bill Piche]

It's a RUMOR for sure now turned into an emotional dribble by Pat. I saw the info from Randy Strossen and what it said was something that has been around for a LONG time about COC's. Rumors on who and who has not closed one and who is officially on the list. Bottom line, the official list is STILL when it comes out in MILO as it always has been.

Again, it is up to the individual to keep their mouth shut.

[terminator]

Guys,

Never said Bill didn't earn the respect given to him, nobody worked harder to close a #3 than he did.

I don't think the objection (1. if there is really one, 2. if it is not a rumor, 3. remember you started this thread, not me) is to people telling they closed the gripper and got certified.  I think it is publishing the list and adding to it before it's official.  My opinion.

"Ironmind spit on its' customers", never seen a more laughable statement.  Doesn't deserve a response.

Bill, you may chuckle, but your "methods" have helped me become more consistent, and move closer to #4.  I also never said your goal was to be famous, but you did get a lot of notoriety out of being a COC.  

As far as IM "attacking" a "legend" directly.  I see it as more of a challenge.  Basically if you claim to have closed a #4, we have a spot open for you, whenever you can document it.

I apologize if I let "emotion" run wild or "dribbled emotion".  I thought I was just airing some information as I saw it.  Why are my thoughts any less important than Baldy's or Snott's?   "attacking PDA" or "what's up with Ironmind".  Are opinions only okay if they match yours?  Jeez I hope not.

PS.   One of your posts, the one right before mine has disappeared.  Probably just a mistake, but it was an important precursor to mine.

PPS.  Please don't take offense to anything I have said.  As I perceived it, there was the appearance of a one-sided slant against Ironmind.  If I have misinterpreted that, well I'm sorry.

[Nathan Say]

Who clean & jerked 600?

[Guest Jeff Roark]

Probably a Russian....

[Roark]

Nathan,

Thank you. Your question caused me to add an 'if'

to my post, which I had left out.

Sorry about that. So far as I know no one has C&J

600 yet, but keeping up with modern olympic lifting

is not my strong suit, so perhaps someone else here

knows.

Joe

[Guest kINGPIN]

Terminator, the only part of your post that I will coment on is the part about the sponsorship by PDA.  As wannagrip said; this does not affect discussion on this board.  To all the members here it is just simply a link in the corner of the grip page.  There are not many people here that have any business ties with the company other then the fact that they use there equipment.  If we did not like the stuff by PDA or Ironmind then don't worry we will say about it.  But the fact is that both companies products are held in very high esteem and rightly so.

[Guest baldy]

Terminator, I will respond only where you directly mentioned me. I lurked on this board for about a year before I joined (viewed it with no account). I do remember everyone shouting that calibration is the only way to go, but we have beaten that dead horse long enough. I remember a lot of hostility against IronMind and most of the people who were vocal about it are not now, so I don't really know what you are getting at. Some people seem to have heard the other side and formed a synthesis of opinion.

You say I am "way off", but I only typed my opinion. You are obviously very partial to IM, that is OK. I like IM and PDA, and I have ordered from both 3 times or more just this year (IM order coming in today as a matter of fact). I am entitled to my opinion like you are yours. Like AP, I also read that FAQ as an attack on Richard Sorin, but I wasn't going to go there. Since he did, I have to say that is the way I read it as well, and I don't see any other way to read that portion.

I read the IM document to be propoganda. It is nice to know what field you work in (you threw that in there) but what does that have to do with the ability to read a document impartially? As an engineer you read it as a great response, that is your opinion. As a factory flunky I read it to be mudslinging, that is my opinion (which you stated we should all be free to express).

Lastly, you say I "forgot something else": Joe Kinney. I think you miss the boat here as well because Joe did not close the #4 by IM's current standards. If you want to go there, his word is as good as anyone else's who said they did it. Strossen never witnessed it. I am not going there, however, so don't flame me about trying to tear down Kinney. I am only trying to make a point, not bring Kinney into question. I ask that no one defend Kinney here, because no one has attacked him.

Anyway, I really like to hear your input on training, so I hope you don't stop posting because of people disagreeing with what you write. I have made a conscious effort to avoid these kinds of discussions, and I would not be writing this second post if you had not addressed me directly.

Take care.

[blueshadow]

Have I missed something here? Where is this FAQ from Dr. Strossen?!

[terminator]

Tim, no problem I do respect everyone's opinion.  It's so hard to capture the whole story with such a brief post, that is why I enjoy talking at length with my friends on these subjects.

I mentioned the fact that I am an engineer. I guess what I should have said is that I agreed with IM's comments about the calibration process.  I agree that there are way too many variables involved in gripper calibration to asign a single number, but I think you know where I stand on that.  Opinions on the tone of a document, or someone's motives are exactly that; opinions, and as I have stated I think everyone should have theirs.  I have also done a heck of a lot of jobs in my day, including landscaping, tree climber, mechanic, and even "factory flunky" as you put it.  I respect everyone's opinion, especially people who pay their dues and come by their knowledge the hard way.

I didn't see a blatant attack on Kinney.  He did go further than anyone else to document what he did to that #4.  I think (opinion) that anyone who could do what he did to a #4 would most certainly have done the same.  If I ever get to that point, I'll run a video camera, hire a photographer, invite the whole gripboard over to check it out.  To my knowledge, nobody else has video, photos and a plethora of people who witnessed closings.  To my mind (opinion), no-one should be associated with closing a #4 until they have that.  The certification process has evolved, but Kinney would have had no problem meeting the new criteria if they were in place at the time he was killing his #4.  The only attack would be by putting people on the list who haven't had the same burden of proof (opinion).  I'd bet if anyone else had the same level of proof, they'd be on the list, new standards or not.

While I agree the comments were directed at Mr. Sorin, I see them as more of a challenge (opinion).  I think our 1st COC has some pretty thick skin, he'll be alright.  I wouldn't be surprised (and I hope he does) if he answers the challenge and trains and mashes the #4 for everyone to see.  

Yes I'm partial to Ironmind's grippers.  I have nothing against PDA or their grippers.  I enjoy sharing training information with you guys, as you know it gets pretty lonely, there's relatively few of us boneheads out there.

[Guest baldy]

Pat, I think we are finally breaking new ground here. I could not agree with you more on your plans *when* (not if) you close your #4, get as many people as you can to watch and to try to shut it themselves. Then there is no room for doubt. I would love to see Richard close his #4, but in all fairness to him he is past his prime. That being said, him being past his prime is still light years ahead of what most people will ever achieve in strength. John Brookfield doesn't say someone has the "best crushing strength" (in his opinion) for nothing. I do not count Richard out, it makes it that much more spectacular if he does decide to do it again. I believe that he did close that Phantom 4 PDA rated at 621 ip (closing torque just mentioned for purposes of distinction) on numerous occasions. At the same time I believe that he doesn't have anything to prove, his reputation speaks for itself. I know you feel the same about Kinney.

Like you, I also enjoy sharing training ideas here, and that is why I do my best to abstain from this kind of discussion. This is not conducive to any of us getting any stronger, which is our common goal. We spend the majority of the bandwidth here on useless bickering, maybe that will soon change. Some of the new members here have done us some good getting it back to grip, let's continue that trend.

Best wishes to you in your training. I will continue to buy from IronMind, PDA, and Sorinex as needed and I am sure you will do the same.

[Nathan Say]

Roark, if someone lifted 600 I'm sure Randy would have had it put up on the IM site, but it's not there so I don't think we're missing anything.

[blueshadow]

Nathan,I was referring to Baldy's first post on page 1 of this thread!

[Guest baldy]

Blueshadow, the FAQ we have been discussing is located at http://www.ironmind.com/faq_grippers.shtml. If you are going to bother looking at it, be sure to read the whole thing and everyone's comments should make sense. It is a few pages long.

[blueshadow]

Thank you Baldy, I appreciate it!

                             JJ