Static Holds

[JamesG]

Static holds seem to be popular and Im wondering what you guys have found to work better, a cable on the table or db's at 90 degress on a preacher bench? Im hoping to hit my first contest in 2 months so its time to kick it in gear since I missed this last one.

James

[Dave H]

You can use them both ways. With the cables to strengthen the lock at the side of the elbow - or side pressure - and off the Preacher bench for the lock in the Back-pressure position.

I used to do them at all angles, but to tell you the truth, I got away from them years ago - at least for armwrestling - because I found that by doing them, I was strong in the lock position, but I could not put anyone away! So I went back to full range movements. That gave me just as much strength in the lock - at least I have not noticed a down-turn - but it also gave me the strength and explosive power to start putting people away. And that is more important than just holding a guy in one position. If you try that and your opponent has been training full range movements, he will end up putting you down because he has trained for the close!

I tried doing both - Ron Bath told me one time that if he is doing a set of 10's in the Hammer-curl with an 80 pounder, he will stop at halfway several times for holds, then he will continue with the reps. I guess he meant like at rep 3 he would stop halfway for a timed hold, then he would do a few more, stop for a timed hold do a few more, ect, ect, until he closed out the set with the 10 reps. You might want to try that.

Dave....

[austinslater]

Dave as usual great advice. Ive been doing mine with a full range by necessity as I dont have heavy enough db's to do a lock with. Some people do swear by them but I seem to respond well to full range reps.

Austin

[austinslater]

I will add that I love Static holds on an actuall table. Thanks to david Horne for that tip. I like to have someone pull on my arm from various angles or use cables etc. to get this effect. Just some thoughts. . .

[Dave H]

Yes, static holds on an actual table is GREAT! We were doing those at my house during the "Arnold " weekend - Bryon, Jim, Randy, Carlos and myself - they were killers and they seemed to really increase the strength of the tendons. I suspect that they might be behind my slight elbow injury (read my workout report) as I had not done them in a long, long, time and then that weekend, we were having contests seeing who could hold them the longest. We were using a 90 pound DB.

(I held it the longest)

Dave....

[austinslater]

dave,

What grip were you guys using for these holds? I usually have my partners hold my arm or use the 2x4 exercise. Ill have to try the db idea.

Austin

[Dave H]

I was holding it off to the side, toward the pin pad, as well as leaning across the table in a hook grip. That way it stressed me in two ways - just as the guy would be pulling me slightly his way and forcing to the pin pad at the same time.

Don't try the sideways maneuver if your tendons in the elbow are not strengthened for the side-pressure. You would - could hurt the elbow and front shoulder real quick.

Dave...

[thearm95]

Just dug up this old thread -

What would be a decent static hammer grip DB hold on a preacher bench with the elbow at 90 degrees?

and what do some of the best guys do?

[mithras]

From what I can gather A "decent" hold for time (10-20s) would be around the 40-50kg mark if you're not a heavy, but if you're doing actual motion and curls, less.

The numbers people post for actual holds and curls can go over 100kg, but evidence is normally thin on the ground.

[fightertrainer]

From what I can gather A "decent" hold for time (10-20s) would be around the 40-50kg mark if you're not a heavy, but if you're doing actual motion and curls, less.

The numbers people post for actual holds and curls can go over 100kg, but evidence is normally thin on the ground.

Artem Kirilmenko (spelling?) said he hold 240 lbs for 20 seconds over NE board. I can't even fathom that, but he was world champion so I can't argue that.

Edited December 11, 2008 by fightertrainer

[pawel r]

Artem Klimenko biceps hold: 115 kg for 15 seconds: http://www.worldofarmwrestling.com/images/...klimenko010.jpg

[pawel r]

Static holds seem to be popular and Im wondering what you guys have found to work better, a cable on the table or db's at 90 degress on a preacher bench? Im hoping to hit my first contest in 2 months so its time to kick it in gear since I missed this last one.

James

scott = elbow

cable = muscle

Do mixed this

Edited December 11, 2008 by pawel r

[mithras]

The picture of Artem isn't what a lot of people would call a "static hold", but it's a LOT of weight.

I've managed to support ridiculous weights when my elbow is resting on the table (nowhere as much as Artem though!) but when the elbow is on a preacher bench at an angle, on the inside of your leg, or on a scott bench it's a totally different story.

So Pawel, you think it's better to do a mix of exercises in the "static hold" category?

[fightertrainer]

The picture of Artem isn't what a lot of people would call a "static hold", but it's a LOT of weight.

I've managed to support ridiculous weights when my elbow is resting on the table (nowhere as much as Artem though!) but when the elbow is on a preacher bench at an angle, on the inside of your leg, or on a scott bench it's a totally different story.

So Pawel, you think it's better to do a mix of exercises in the "static hold" category?

Mithras, I am not sure I understand you. How do you know Artem is not doing static hold?.

It is not just holding the weight but rather what is the angle of your forearm relative to the floor, is it not? Starting with your forearm parallel to the floor as heaviest. From there every inch you move your forearm higher, that much resistant is lessened. At 45 degree angle up, I would say at least 45% less resistant from original weight (45% less of whatever Artem was holding is still a lot). If your forearm is near 80 degree or more, most people can support quite a bit of weight. I saw Rustam holding the weight with his forearm moving below parallel to over parallel few degree. IF Rustam was doing 95 lbs (maybe more) then the weight resistant is true of 95lbs. Angle it up to 45 degree I would say resistant would be only 55% as much. LOoks like he keep it low most of the video with static hold, which is awesome. And that is why he is one of the best. IMO, The curl bench is not ideal for this kind of hold, why? If won't you allow to control it if you dare go parallel with your forearm or you will crash. Well! The long strap Artem's using will helps keep the weight close to the floor (good idea).

With cable, you can actually have it pulls against your forearm at 90 degree angle for maximum effect, and you still be up right. Though if the resistant is heavier than your own bodyweight, then you'd struggle to remain straight up. Then bracing/kicking your leg on a post or something would help. I alway think a human hand attacks you in AW in 4 different ways: one is one your bicep, another is on your forearm, and last one is on your wrist and hand. How to make a resistant pull you like a human is the trickiest part to figure it out. YOu need to pull against something that offer you 2 different direction of pull of bicep and forearm/hand seperately and progressively, then you can train alone w/o a partner. Whether or not you have partner it stil nice to be able to train by yourself like that. That was what I said on another thread.

[mithras]

Hi Fightertrainer, what I mean is when people say a "static hold" they don't often or normally mean with the elbow flat on an armwrestling table, it's normally with the elbow and arm on a preacher bench at an angle. Having your elbow flat on the table changes the lift quite a bit, as the pressure goes down directly into the table more than if you are on a preacher bench, if that makes sense? I wasn't actually talking about the angle he is using at all.

I'm not saying Artem isn't doing a "static hold", it's just the type of hold he is doing (with elbow on a table) lets you use more weight than the preacher bench version, which I thought i'd point out as the question was about how much weight people use.

You make some interesting points in your post: Obviously it's all about the angle, and if you reduce what Artem is holding here for a different style of hold, it'd be massive numbers either way. I agree that it seems safer working the top of this exercise using a rope and a weight which only just comes off the floor.

Your other point about how it's really hard to replicate a human training partner is something I've been thinking about too, I think I saw your post where you mentioned angling 2 different resistance bands or maybe a cable with stack for one direction and a band for the other, sounds good and I'll hopefully give this a try soon.

Edited December 11, 2008 by mithras

[raikkonen]

The picture of Artem isn't what a lot of people would call a "static hold", but it's a LOT of weight.

I've managed to support ridiculous weights when my elbow is resting on the table (nowhere as much as Artem though!) but when the elbow is on a preacher bench at an angle, on the inside of your leg, or on a scott bench it's a totally different story.

So Pawel, you think it's better to do a mix of exercises in the "static hold" category?

Mithras, I am not sure I understand you. How do you know Artem is not doing static hold?.

It is not just holding the weight but rather what is the angle of your forearm relative to the floor, is it not? Starting with your forearm parallel to the floor as heaviest. From there every inch you move your forearm higher, that much resistant is lessened. At 45 degree angle up, I would say at least 45% less resistant from original weight (45% less of whatever Artem was holding is still a lot). If your forearm is near 80 degree or more, most people can support quite a bit of weight. I saw Rustam holding the weight with his forearm moving below parallel to over parallel few degree. IF Rustam was doing 95 lbs (maybe more) then the weight resistant is true of 95lbs. Angle it up to 45 degree I would say resistant would be only 55% as much. LOoks like he keep it low most of the video with static hold, which is awesome. And that is why he is one of the best. IMO, The curl bench is not ideal for this kind of hold, why? If won't you allow to control it if you dare go parallel with your forearm or you will crash. Well! The long strap Artem's using will helps keep the weight close to the floor (good idea).

With cable, you can actually have it pulls against your forearm at 90 degree angle for maximum effect, and you still be up right. Though if the resistant is heavier than your own bodyweight, then you'd struggle to remain straight up. Then bracing/kicking your leg on a post or something would help. I alway think a human hand attacks you in AW in 4 different ways: one is one your bicep, another is on your forearm, and last one is on your wrist and hand. How to make a resistant pull you like a human is the trickiest part to figure it out. YOu need to pull against something that offer you 2 different direction of pull of bicep and forearm/hand seperately and progressively, then you can train alone w/o a partner. Whether or not you have partner it stil nice to be able to train by yourself like that. That was what I said on another thread.

so true. easiest way is to just try it and youl see. on preacher bench i can hold 35kg for 30 seconds or so. now if i hold that same weight in the same position but on a flat bench, it doesnt feel as bad. cause your not having to pull back the weight as much if u get what i mean. but if you hold 100kg thta way, its still 100kg etc.

[jad]

I've done holds, elbow unsupported, and my acromion process feels like it's going to pop through the skin and the pain from that stops me before my bicep gives out.

[darthsith19]

I think the question was how much people can hold in a hammer curl position. Well I don't know what I can do but on a preacher bench I did a static hold in bicep curl position (at roughly 45 degrees) 65 lbs. for 40 seconds (29.5 kg). My weight is 167 lbs. I know it's not impressive but I'm just an amateur.

This guy static holds 161 lbs. at 141 lbs. of bodyweight for 18 seconds. Most impressive static hold I have ever seen, he's a national champion but still:

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=UurB-wTiGds

Edit: Video description says 18 seconds but it looks more like 21-22 seconds to me.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Josh H

[mithras]

The question is in the thread:

What would be a decent static hammer grip DB hold on a preacher bench with the elbow at 90 degrees?

I of know some guys who are UK champs do 60-75kg on this with a thick bar grip, 12 seconds+

Haha, one of them is the guy in the video you posted!

I can do about 40kg-45kg before I start getting worried

Well I don't know what I can do but on a preacher bench I did a static hold in bicep curl position (at roughly 45 degrees) 65 lbs. for 40 seconds (29.5 kg). My weight is 167 lbs. I know it's not impressive but I'm just an amateur.

Try it standing but with your arm parallel to the floor (90 degrees in the elbow joint), then it'll be a harder exercise than doing it on a preacher bench too.

Edited December 12, 2008 by mithras

[darthsith19]

edit: nevermind

Edited December 12, 2008 by Josh H

[mithras]

Well I don't know what I can do but on a preacher bench I did a static hold in bicep curl position (at roughly 45 degrees) 65 lbs. for 40 seconds (29.5 kg). My weight is 167 lbs. I know it's not impressive but I'm just an amateur.

That's pretty good anyway!

[fightertrainer]

Mithras, this turns out to be an excellent topic...mainly no insulting here...LOL. Back to topic:

I agree. With elbow rests directly on the pad, it feels different than entire upper arm resting on a pad. Rustam just uses his body by leaning downward in the video. Hence, body English movement. If preacher is used you must be tall enough (adjutable pad height is ok) so that you can have option of towering over the pad to clear it from touching your upper arm when you lower it to parallel.

Gravity pull straight down (to earth's center) With forearm parallels to the floor, andgle of gravity pull is 90 degree relative to forearm = heaviest position. There's no getting around this! Any smaller/bigger angle will result in less resistant.

Among other things. When I grip cable handle worth 75lbs of pull, I feel less stress/pain on my forearm than a dumbell of 75 lbs. I don't know why. Even at lesser weight the dumbell still hurts more. I call the effect "the heavy hand effect" Meaning the resistant of pull is same whether is cable or dumbell. But with dumbell your hand feel the weight on it right there : "The hand is heavy" but bicep feel same resistant. I like cable better. Maybe i will try strap on dumbell thingy.

Two direction of pull in an exercise? Ok, I won't start another potic. Let's talk right here.

I use cable handle in my hand at same level or lower of my hand in standing positon (sternum level), while a jumpstretch green band is on my wrist (over a towel if you want) to pull my wrist down to the floor at slight angle. I then squat down with same leg (righ hand right foot) in front. Now lean back away from the machine to lift the weigh tup and stretch the band out. Cable pull is near 90 degree relative to my hand/forearm so I can do wrist curl in this position while the band is pull hard against my forearm seperately. Collectively total resistant is the sum of 2 pulls add up. As you lean away the weight doesn't change but the band will pull harder on your arm. From here you have many choices of switching from hammer to hook, side hit, even toproll just by adjusting your torso angle relative to the machine/band. It feel much closer to a human hand than any other things I 've tried.

The problem of using one cable handle is: if it pulls you downward, you still can wrist curl but once the wrist is up, the angle of pull is now nearly zero against your hand in flexed position (cupping) though your arm still feel same weight. Now if cable is high to mid level or so, as you lean back till your forearm is straifght up or at 45 degree or better. YOu want the cable to pull agaisnt your hand in cupped position at 90 angle for maximum reistant, so adjust the pulley height until this happens. All the while the band still resisting your downn ward on your wrist. Manipulate it any way you desire once you set it like that. You may ask while don't I set the pulley at high level to begin w/o band at all? The problem is there is no downward pull at all. Which if you think about it; it is why your human opponent try just that to pin you while he may manipulate your hand/wrist to get more control of. Other words make sure the direction resistant always near 90 degree to maximum effect. I hope I make myself clear here. Also use tower/foam sheet on handle to make it thicker and I use all metal handle in order to rotate my forearm a bit.

What I like about this actually better than human is: It feel like human for one thing, and second, I can progressively add weight to it until it reach word class level (ahem...not me yet) I need no partner to train any time, and I know where my level is at. I am sure with blue band and bottom of weight stack would tremendous for most of us here. I don't think even John B. can handle green band + blue band stretched out to 20 inches (180lbs or so) + whole stack. And what exactly that mean? It means any body can see his own level in order to improve. And see it in numbers, that's very sciencetific way for me, IMO

Cheers

[thearm95]

I think the question was how much people can hold in a hammer curl position. Well I don't know what I can do but on a preacher bench I did a static hold in bicep curl position (at roughly 45 degrees) 65 lbs. for 40 seconds (29.5 kg). My weight is 167 lbs. I know it's not impressive but I'm just an amateur.

This guy static holds 161 lbs. at 141 lbs. of bodyweight for 18 seconds. Most impressive static hold I have ever seen, he's a national champion but still:

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=UurB-wTiGds

Edit: Video description says 18 seconds but it looks more like 21-22 seconds to me.

Whilst this is ridiculously impressive at that bwt - it is still sort of hard to tell the angle at which his forearm is at - of course this vid would have been better taken from the side. Seems a bodyweight 1 arm (90 degree elbow) preacher bench hold is very good or elite?? (in this respect anyway)

[mithras]

Mithras, this turns out to be an excellent topic...mainly no insulting here...LOL. Back to topic:

hahaha, not yet anyway

I agree. With elbow rests directly on the pad, it feels different than entire upper arm resting on a pad. Rustam just uses his body by leaning downward in the video. Hence, body English movement. If preacher is used you must be tall enough (adjutable pad height is ok) so that you can have option of towering over the pad to clear it from touching your upper arm when you lower it to parallel.

Gravity pull straight down (to earth's center) With forearm parallels to the floor, andgle of gravity pull is 90 degree relative to forearm = heaviest position. There's no getting around this! Any smaller/bigger angle will result in less resistant.

Among other things. When I grip cable handle worth 75lbs of pull, I feel less stress/pain on my forearm than a dumbell of 75 lbs. I don't know why. Even at lesser weight the dumbell still hurts more. I call the effect "the heavy hand effect" Meaning the resistant of pull is same whether is cable or dumbell. But with dumbell your hand feel the weight on it right there : "The hand is heavy" but bicep feel same resistant. I like cable better. Maybe i will try strap on dumbell thingy.

Yeah this all makes sense. One thing we've not mentioned much is the hand angle, some people do the holds with a standard "bicep curl" grip (palm facing the ceiling) and others in a hammer curl grip (thumb facing the ceiling). I guess the hammer curl position more closely represents backpressure and the bicep curl grip, stopping power or more of a hooking move, what do you think?

Two direction of pull in an exercise? Ok, I won't start another potic. Let's talk right here.

I use cable handle in my hand at same level or lower of my hand in standing positon (sternum level), while a jumpstretch green band is on my wrist (over a towel if you want) to pull my wrist down to the floor at slight angle. I then squat down with same leg (righ hand right foot) in front. Now lean back away from the machine to lift the weigh tup and stretch the band out. Cable pull is near 90 degree relative to my hand/forearm so I can do wrist curl in this position while the band is pull hard against my forearm seperately. Collectively total resistant is the sum of 2 pulls add up. As you lean away the weight doesn't change but the band will pull harder on your arm. From here you have many choices of switching from hammer to hook, side hit, even toproll just by adjusting your torso angle relative to the machine/band. It feel much closer to a human hand than any other things I 've tried.

Yeah so the closer you get to a "pin" position, the harder the band works the forearm, that's a great idea

Whilst this is ridiculously impressive at that bwt - it is still sort of hard to tell the angle at which his forearm is at - of course this vid would have been better taken from the side. Seems a bodyweight 1 arm (90 degree elbow) preacher bench hold is very good or elite?? (in this respect anyway)

Looks around 90 degrees to me?

[StalwartSentinel]

Artem Klimenko biceps hold: 115 kg for 15 seconds: http://www.worldofarmwrestling.com/images/...klimenko010.jpg

There's no way that that is 115 kg.