New Bending Rules For The Lgc

[Mikael Siversson]

Gripboard member Arne asked me to post this.

The total number of attempts is increased from five to six.

The single bending event is divided into two sub-events.

To successfully complete a given length of bar it has to be completed using both methods.

The six attempts can be used up in any way chosen by the competitor, i.e., if the competitor feels confident with sub-event one, he or she may decide to use only one attempt for this sub-category and the other five for the second sub-category.

Sub-event one is un-braced bending above the waist (basically Gripboard rules). Bracing against the sholder, head, neck is not allowed though (if you use an unorthodox style please contact Arne well before the competition). Double overhand is allowed. Wrapping should conform to what is generally accepted, i.e., towel, leather, IM pads etc. Re-wrapping for the crush-down is allowed. The bar has to be brought down to a maximum of two inches (50.8mm) between the outer margin of the ends of the bar. Maximum time allowed is 2 minutes.

Sub-event two is un-braced bending above waist, same rules as above with the following exceptions. The starting style cannot be changed to another in a later stage of the bend, i.e. if you start with a reverse grip style you have to use this throughout the bend. The bend has to be completed in one motion. Double overhand is NOT allowed. The bend is completed when the bar is bent at least 60 degrees. Time allowed is one minute (obviously you will need much less). There will be restrictions on the wrapping material used. Leather is not allowed, or other material similar in stiffness.

These rules will (with possible minor adjustments) also be in place in the 2005 European Championship if it is once again organised by Arne.

[Mikael Siversson]

To clarify. If you complete a 6'' bar with sub-category one and a 6 1/4'' with sub-category two, you will get the 6 1/4'' approved even if you actually never tried this length with sub-category one (as you bent an even shorter length).

[Clay Edgin]

I think that's pretty cool; the second subevent is a good way to use bending to test a person's lower arm strength for sure.

[the swiss]

I like the rule also, but don't really get the use of sub-event one, apart from entertainment reasons (bending thicker steel)?

[Mikael Siversson]

Yes, entertainment value plus that we do not want any weakling with disproportionate forearm strength to win the bending event. We are looking for great wrist/hand strength (shown mainly in the "kink" event) as well as good upper body strength. We believe that if you can kink a bar to 60 degrees in one single motion without using double overhand you should also be able to fully bend it using whatever un-braced style you wish. If not, you need to get stronger. It's a bit like the one hand lift where you have to have good core strength in order to reach the limit of your hand strength. I have come across people who can kink a red nail to a considerable degree using a non-folding style but who struggle to crush down far weaker steel than a red. For them its "back to the gym boys".

[Jedd Johnson]

I think that's pretty cool; the second subevent is a good way to use bending to test a person's lower arm strength for sure.

I am all about it. I am sure you remember the conversation, Clay.

-Jedd-

[OldGuy]

Bending rules were made to be bent.

[Clay Edgin]

I think that's pretty cool; the second subevent is a good way to use bending to test a person's lower arm strength for sure.

I am all about it. I am sure you remember the conversation, Clay.

-Jedd-

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Yessir, that was a good idea!

[gamidon]

I have a question, maybe I am reading this wrong. But isnt the best bend essentially the one you can get the 60 degree kink in? Then flip it over and chest crush? Why would someone go ahead and go after any larger bars and potentially wear themselves out if the only one that will count is the one that is 60 degrees?

Just wondering, not attending the competition but I love seeing the results and I want to understand what it will mean.

[Mikael Siversson]

The 60 degree kink has to be properly measured, meaning that the wrapping has to be removed from the bar which will cool down and get much harder. It would be tricky to wrap a 60+ degrees bent bar tight for the crush down, which is why we separated it into two different sub-events. Most competitors (especially those specialized in the double overhand technique) will have most difficulties with the "kink" sub-event and will probably only need one attempt at the full bending sub-event. It is obviously good to know your strength well before the competition. For example, if you can kink (to 60 degrees) a 6 1/2'' bar but fully bend (with double overhand) a 5 1/2'' bar in practise, you may go for a 6'' or a 6 1/4'' bar in the full bend in the competition and then focus on getting as close as possible to this length with your remaining five attempts in the "kink" sub-event. It would be pointless to go all out in the full bend if you are much stronger in this than in the "kink" event.

Remember that some competitors will find the full bend harder than the kink. If we reach a point where all competitors in all our competitions always are stronger in the full bend, then we would probably just keep the kink part of the event.

[jad]

No disrespect intended but why not just eliminate the double-overhand and stop messing around. Sure there might be those few and far in-between that can kink tougher steel using a non-DO style, than they can chest crush but come on....Why waste the time of having a good red bender DO a G8 or G5 because they know that's all they can kink? Again, no disrespect intended but you (Mikael) seem to be a pretty direct guy so what's with the half-hearted attempt to include DO?

[Mikael Siversson]

The answer is simple (if I understand you correctly). In a DU or reverse style, people switch to DO at different stages of a kink. Some may bend the bar only a few degrees before flipping it over for the DO. We want to make sure you can take it all the way to 60 degrees. Another reason for keeping the crush-down part is (as far as the LGC comp. goes) that for the next LGC the steel used will probably be a softish HRS that is easy to kink but very hard to crush down at shorter lengths. The rather inexperienced benders at the next LGC will probably find the crush to be the hardest part of the bend.

It could be a lot worse than having to DO fold an easy bar in order to satisfy the organisers (and entertain the crowd). Does not take long. It is not really a big problem.

If everyone at the Europeans (assuming Arne organises it 2005) are stopped in their tracks by the kink rather than by the full bend, then it is likely that only the kink part will be included next time Arne organises the Europeans.

[Zakath]

I guess you are very happy with the new rules Mikael

But I wonder if someone could post a picture of a 60 degree bend, because i don't know how to measure it correctly.

[Mikael Siversson]

I guess you are very happy with the new rules Mikael 

But I wonder if someone could post a picture of a 60 degree bend, because i don't know how to measure it correctly.

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Come on Zakath, how difficult could that possibly be. A straight bar is bent zero degrees, a bar bent to right angles is 90 degrees, so a 60 degree bend is two thirds of the way towards a 90 degree right angles bend. I just tried the LGC 8mm HRS stock today and managed to kink a 5 3/4'' bar to about 70 degrees. Did not try any shorter. I could perhaps have managed a 5 1/2'' but certainly not a 5 1/4''. With a full bend my best within two minutes is 5 1/2'' so with this particular steel I am equally strong with both methods at the moment. With CRS I would have been stronger with the full bend.

[Zakath]

Come on Zakath, how difficult could that possibly be. A straight bar is bent zero degrees, a bar bent to right angles is 90 degrees, so a 60 degree bend is two thirds of the way towards a 90 degree right angles bend. I just tried the LGC 8mm HRS stock today and managed to kink a 5 3/4'' bar to about 70 degrees. Did not try any shorter. I could perhaps have managed a 5 1/2'' but certainly not a 5 1/4''. With a full bend my best within two minutes is 5 1/2'' so with this particular steel I am equally strong with both methods at the moment. With CRS I would have been stronger with the full bend.

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Ok, sorry for asking, duh!

[the swiss]

I've been experimenting with the new 60° rule. and I find 60 to be a LOT when bending shorter bars O/U. My hands get in the way, and I need to readjust my hand position to get little farther. It sometimes feels as if i have strength left to bend the bar further, but no room for my hands. and competitors with larger hands than mine will have even more difficulties than me.

Any experience or comments about this?

thanks

david

[Mikael Siversson]

I've been experimenting with the new 60° rule. and I find 60 to be a LOT when bending shorter bars O/U. My hands get in the way, and I need to readjust my hand position to get little farther. It sometimes feels as if i have strength left to bend the bar further, but no room for my hands. and competitors with larger hands than mine will have even more difficulties than me.

Any experience or comments about this?

thanks

david

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Readjust your grip is not allowed. With O/U style I can currently kink a 6'' piece of the dark 8mm HRS (same stock basically as the one DH offered; I think a 6'' was rated at 225k) to at least 60 degrees (usually 65-70 degrees) according to the rules. With re-adjustment I can get 5 3/4''. The 6'' is basically my limit (for 8mm)with this style (maybe)as I also run out of space (poor excuse for being weak perhaps). The solution is either to switch to DU or to practice with 7'' lengths of suitable strength until you can manage a red nail equivalent. It is not ment to be easy.

[the swiss]

ok, thanks for the reply.

I just hope there will not be too big a gap between the shortened black HRS steel and the 7' or so of harder steel. In other words, the perfect situation would be were nails are not offered at a very wide range of sizes (have all nails around 6' or 6.5' instead of having a hard 5' nail and the nail of the next level is a 7' CRS). I know I know not easy to implement.

I do like the new sub-rule though (despite the appearances), just thought maybe 50° is less discriminating.

anyway I will keep training both O/U and DU styles

david

[FrankyBoy]

I just finished my bending workout of today.

The shortest bar I bent was a 5 1/4" Blue.

I got 62° on this one using the DU style.

Shorter bars aren't possible, the pinkys get contact before that angle.

I must admit that I used my DO leather pads for this test.

I will post a video of this bend later.

I agree with David, it would be better to have more bars of different strengths.

A possible list would be:

IM Yellow

IM Blue

IM Blue 5.5

7"x8mm HRS

G5

G5 5.5

G8

G8 5.5

Red

....

However, I fully understand the problems with the necessary rating of those.

I should state that I like this sub-event also and that I probably will not have the problem of bending an 8mm bar that short that I will get problems with the hand space.

[Zakath]

I was wondering, is it allowed to change wrapping material for let's say the crush-down? For example if I start with two parts of jean-cloth and for the crushdown change to t-shirt cloth?

And another thing to clarify, how do you measure based on this picture? A or B?

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?act=mod...cmd=si&img=2454

[Mikael Siversson]

I was wondering, is it allowed to change wrapping material for let's say the crush-down? For example if I start with two parts of jean-cloth and for the crushdown change to t-shirt cloth?

And another thing to clarify, how do you measure based on this picture? A or B?

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?act=mod...cmd=si&img=2454

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Yes, you can.

It would be A for LGC/European championship (outer width).

[Zakath]

Yes, you can.

It would be A for LGC/European championship (outer width).

←

Ok thanks for the answer, I always thought it was inner width but now I know what's correct.

I will have to add another last technigue for the crushdown, but it won't be much of a problem (tried yesterday). My biggest problem is just when you can't use the overhand technique any more and have to switch to the crush-down (110-120 degrees bend). I have noticed my fingers are pretty short so I can't grab my other hand with them during the firts part of the crushdown. I'm not sure how to overcome this problem, except getting stronger chest and shoulders, maybe make more use of the momentum form the overhand part?