CoC #3

[Blacksmith513]

1 hour ago, Wannagrip said:

Yesterday was pretty much the anniversary of the board date-wise. Feb 23, 2001.  That's 22 years and counting now.

The Gripboard would be getting its bachelors degree right about now.

 

I was 7, almost 8. when this thread was made, eagerly awaiting for the Nintendo Gamecube for my 8th bday in May... Essentially same age as my nephew right now.... eeks. Now all he does is play Mario and eat just i did... I hope in 22 years he will be posting on the gripboard.

 

 

[studman123]

35 minutes ago, Blacksmith513 said:

The Gripboard would be getting its bachelors degree right about now.

 

I was 7, almost 8. when this thread was made, eagerly awaiting for the Nintendo Gamecube for my 8th bday in May... Essentially same age as my nephew right now.... eeks. Now all he does is play Mario and eat just i did... I hope in 22 years he will be posting on the gripboard.

 

 

Yup hope he will revive this thread 22 years from now as well 

[DevilErik]

1 hour ago, Vinnie said:

My opinion: closing the 3 -- even certifying on it -- is definitely NOT world class now.  "Guest" was prescient!  And one of his detractors told him the only reason that 40 or 50 people had closed it in 10 years was training hard, etc., and that the OP was mistaken for thinking many more were to come -- the guy even compared the increasing number of people who had been recently closing the COC3 to the "recency" fallacy in financial markets, cited the internet boom, and taunted, who would buy an internet stock now?  Well, if only.  If only you had bought Amazon that day with your last $1000, you'd be a millionaire now (I did not check that but I think it is right, or close).

Point:  exactly as the OP said, it was a new sport, people hadn't done it yet, it is a good feat, it is respectable-- but it is NOT world class.  We can call it a benchmark, or a credential, or a qualifier, but world class?  Nah.  There are over 200 who have certified now, and with a harder certification standard than in 2001, and so many more who have closed it without certifying (many of whom COULD certify if they cared to).

Interesting thread to see.  I like the comparison to benching 350 or 400, which is so funny to me because my all time best on the bench press is 200.  And I did that for the first time at age 50, after a concerted effort, because I was embarrassed that my max was in the 100s.  Benching 400 LOOKS world class to me because I can only do half that, but the reality is that lots of guys can do 400 and I am just not good at that lift.  Maybe that's why some people look at a 3 as world class?  Because they can't get close to it?  But I don't think that is the standard.

In the end, it really is just semantics, without a formal definition.  As the OP said, there was no intent to take away from anyone's accomplishments -- whoever closed a 3, closed a 3.  Awesome.  Lots of people can't.  If you can, you are pretty strong, or worked pretty hard, or probably both.  But if you have a pretty nice singing voice and practice a lot, you still might not become a Broadway star.  World class, in the sense I think most people see it, requires more than pretty good.

This is in kilograms so you just have to convert it to lbs.

This is a strength and conditioning chart for all weight classes.

This chart assumes you bulk and cut and fill out your frame.

You can't get stronger without gaining muscle.

This means that you should be looking at the weight you'll be at after filling out your frame not your current weight.

This chart also assumes it's a paused bench with a proper powerlifting setup a touch and go bench, bounce off your chest bench or a bench where your butt comes off the bench all don't count. No elbow sleeves either only wrist wraps and a belt.

 

[SilentDude]

I think I was 14 or 15 when I joined the board. So it was 2002 or 2003 maybe? 

 

I feel like back then the #3 was thought to be equivalent to a 500+ bench. Now I'd compare it to a 405 bench. 

You won't find many people who can do it without training but there are freaks out there who may close it/bench it after they get the technique down. 

So it's no longer World Class imo. However, I do still think it's at an Elite level though. 

[martincerven]

5 hours ago, Vinnie said:

My opinion: closing the 3 -- even certifying on it -- is definitely NOT world class now.  "Guest" was prescient!  And one of his detractors told him the only reason that 40 or 50 people had closed it in 10 years was training hard, etc., and that the OP was mistaken for thinking many more were to come -- the guy even compared the increasing number of people who had been recently closing the COC3 to the "recency" fallacy in financial markets, cited the internet boom, and taunted, who would buy an internet stock now?  Well, if only.  If only you had bought Amazon that day with your last $1000, you'd be a millionaire now (I did not check that but I think it is right, or close).

Point:  exactly as the OP said, it was a new sport, people hadn't done it yet, it is a good feat, it is respectable-- but it is NOT world class.  We can call it a benchmark, or a credential, or a qualifier, but world class?  Nah.  There are over 200 who have certified now, and with a harder certification standard than in 2001, and so many more who have closed it without certifying (many of whom COULD certify if they cared to).

Interesting thread to see.  I like the comparison to benching 350 or 400, which is so funny to me because my all time best on the bench press is 200.  And I did that for the first time at age 50, after a concerted effort, because I was embarrassed that my max was in the 100s.  Benching 400 LOOKS world class to me because I can only do half that, but the reality is that lots of guys can do 400 and I am just not good at that lift.  Maybe that's why some people look at a 3 as world class?  Because they can't get close to it?  But I don't think that is the standard.

In the end, it really is just semantics, without a formal definition.  As the OP said, there was no intent to take away from anyone's accomplishments -- whoever closed a 3, closed a 3.  Awesome.  Lots of people can't.  If you can, you are pretty strong, or worked pretty hard, or probably both.  But if you have a pretty nice singing voice and practice a lot, you still might not become a Broadway star.  World class, in the sense I think most people see it, requires more than pretty good.

What is the new world class now? #3.5 cert?

[DevilErik]

4 minutes ago, martincerven said:

What is the new world class now? #3.5 cert?

Closing the no.4 with a CCS is world class.

Edited February 24, 2023 by DevilErik

[martincerven]

17 minutes ago, DevilErik said:

The no.4 is world class.

CCS cert #4 or just close #4?

We need to have world class defined 

EDIT: @DevilErik don’t just edit your replies, mine then look out of context. Okay so no cert, CCS of any #4 according to @DevilErik is world class

EDIT2: I just noticed that although quoted reply was changed by edit, in my reply it is old original, that is nicely programmed! 

Edited February 24, 2023 by martincerven
quoted reply was edited

[DevilErik]

3 minutes ago, martincerven said:

CCS cert #4 or just close #4?

We need to have world class defined 

CCS cert.

[EmilBB]

8 minutes ago, DevilErik said:

Closing the no.4 with a CCS is world class.

 

2 minutes ago, DevilErik said:

CCS cert.

It hasn't been done yet, so I would say it's beyond world class. Atleast in my mind I think that a world class feat has to have atleast one or very few people being able to do it. 

[martincerven]

2 minutes ago, DevilErik said:

CCS cert.

But nobody has ever CCS certed on #4. Isn’t that like saying that 9:50s on 100m is world class although nobody has ever ran that fast yet?

1 minute ago, EmilBB said:

 

It hasn't been done yet, so I would say it's beyond world class. Atleast in my mind I think that a world class feat has to have atleast one or very few people being able to do it. 

You typed it faster than me

[DevilErik]

16 minutes ago, EmilBB said:

 

It hasn't been done yet, so I would say it's beyond world class. Atleast in my mind I think that a world class feat has to have atleast one or very few people being able to do it. 

.

Edited February 24, 2023 by DevilErik

[Jermiah Merciconah]

3 minutes ago, DevilErik said:

That doesn't matter only like 5 people in the entire world can pinch 2 old school york 45's for example and huge hands is a requirement people with small hands will NEVER be able to pinch them yet it's world class and not beyond that. Just because no one has done it doesn't mean it's beyond world class.

The same goes for the Millennium DB lift there is only 1 guy in the world that could lift it in a strict manner yet it's still world class and not beyond that.

I think the difference between that and CCS certing the 4 is people have actually been recorded doing the 45, People have come close to the 4 cert but no one has done it, So while the york pinch is undoubtedly world class, 4 cert is beyond world class, Its looked upon with the same mystique that the 500kg deadlift once was, Just based on the amount of people on the list i'd say the 3.5 cert is world class

[martincerven]

2 minutes ago, Jermiah Merciconah said:

I think the difference between that and CCS certing the 4 is people have actually been recorded doing the 45, People have come close to the 4 cert but no one has done it, So while the york pinch is undoubtedly world class, 4 cert is beyond world class, Its looked upon with the same mystique that the 500kg deadlift once was, Just based on the amount of people on the list i'd say the 3.5 cert is world class

@DevilErik is so inconsistent he had to edit two replies, firstly the #4 was world class, then CCS cert #4 was world class, then again only any #4 close was world class…I’m starting to lose what was said and what not, I’m out of this topic.. 

[DevilErik]

Just now, martincerven said:

@DevilErik is so inconsistent he had to edit two replies, firstly the #4 was world class, then CCS cert #4 was world class, then again only any #4 close was world class…I’m starting to lose what was said and what not, I’m out of this topic.. 

Closing an average no.4 with a CCS is world class so Nathan Holle, Ivan Cuk and Carl Myerscough all have a world class crush.

[DevilErik]

47 minutes ago, martincerven said:

@DevilErik is so inconsistent he had to edit two replies, firstly the #4 was world class, then CCS cert #4 was world class, then again only any #4 close was world class…I’m starting to lose what was said and what not, I’m out of this topic.. 

I never said that closing a no.4 with a deep set was world class idk what you're on about when I said no.4 close I obviously meant CCS I don't train deep sets so I never mean deep set when I say close.

I am not inconsistent at all you just can't read lol.

If you knew who I was you would have known that I don't train deep sets.

A close for me means CCS or wider.

Edited February 24, 2023 by DevilErik

[martincerven]

4 hours ago, DevilErik said:

I never said that closing a no.4 with a deep set was world class idk what you're on about when I said no.4 close I obviously meant CCS I don't train deep sets so I never mean deep set when I say close.

I am not inconsistent at all you just can't read lol.

If you knew who I was you would have known that I don't train deep sets.

A close for me means CCS or wider.

Dude, you wrote three different things, and I was just asking to clarify. Then you edited all the replies. You also wrote something about York 45 and beyond world class which I totally did not understand. Yes, I don’t know who you are and how you set or anything, that’s why asked what you mean.

 

[Kevin Gripz]

5 hours ago, DevilErik said:

Closing an average no.4 with a CCS is world class so Nathan Holle, Ivan Cuk and Carl Myerscough all have a world class crush.

Holle closed an unrated old 4 CCS, David shamey also closed an old unrated 4 CCS, Ivan Cuk wide set a 195rgc #4. Can you post the video of anyone closing a 212rgc+ CCS?

[Jared P]

1 hour ago, Kevin Gripz said:

Holle closed an unrated old 4 CCS, David shamey also closed an old unrated 4 CCS, Ivan Cuk wide set a 195rgc #4. Can you post the video of anyone closing a 212rgc+ CCS?

Ivan's No. 4 in the Larry Wheels video is rated 96.2 kg / 212.08 lbs, as Ivan shows in the video at timestamp 19:54, which is an average No. 4 (average is 213 lbs). It wasn't a CCS, but close.

I don't know who all has ever been able to CCS an average No. 4, but I'm guessing only Nathan Holle and Ivan Cuk have come close.

[Jared P]

As for what constitutes "world class", it is merely an argument of definitions.

The definition of world-class according to Google:
- adj.
- (of a person, thing, or activity) of or among the best in the world, "a world-class player"
- being of the highest caliber in the world, "a world-class athlete"

Based on this dictionary definition, I believe anyone who has certified on the CoC 3.5 could currently be considered world-class, as only 21 people have ever done it - certainly qualifying for "among the best in the world" status, in my opinion. Perhaps that will change in the future, but as it stands currently, you'd be hard pressed to have an argument that these Top 21 gripper athletes to ever do it are not "world-class".

• "Tex" Henderson (USA)
• Gabriel Sum (Germany)
• Rich Williams (USA)
• Jonathan D. Vogt (USA)
• Paul Knight (USA)
• Ioan Cristian Puscasu (Romaina)
• Sergey Daragan (Russia)
• Vache Sevajian (USA)
• Andrew Durniat (USA)
• Michael Burke (USA)
• Carlos F. Rivera Pagan (USA)
• Brad Ardrey (USA)
• Alan Barch Jr. (USA)
• Carl Myerscough (USA)
• Bojan Pejic (Sweden)
• Nikita Krivosheev (Russia)
• David Shamey (Russia)
• Slghi Choi (South Korea)
• Tanner Merkle (USA)
• Ivan Cuk (USA)
• Nikita Yurkovets (Belarus)

[Kevin Gripz]

3 hours ago, Jared P said:

Ivan's No. 4 in the Larry Wheels video is rated 96.2 kg / 212.08 lbs, as Ivan shows in the video at timestamp 19:54, which is an average No. 4 (average is 213 lbs). It wasn't a CCS, but close.

I don't know who all has ever been able to CCS an average No. 4, but I'm guessing only Nathan Holle and Ivan Cuk have come close.

You are right! I forgot about that video, the set was wide as you mentioned. He is definitely close to CCS 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Kevin Gripz

[Kevin Gripz]

3 hours ago, Jared P said:

As for what constitutes "world class", it is merely an argument of definitions.

The definition of world-class according to Google:
- adj.
- (of a person, thing, or activity) of or among the best in the world, "a world-class player"
- being of the highest caliber in the world, "a world-class athlete"

Based on this dictionary definition, I believe anyone who has certified on the CoC 3.5 could currently be considered world-class, as only 21 people have ever done it - certainly qualifying for "among the best in the world" status, in my opinion. Perhaps that will change in the future, but as it stands currently, you'd be hard pressed to have an argument that these Top 21 gripper athletes to ever do it are not "world-class".

• "Tex" Henderson (USA)
• Gabriel Sum (Germany)
• Rich Williams (USA)
• Jonathan D. Vogt (USA)
• Paul Knight (USA)
• Ioan Cristian Puscasu (Romaina)
• Sergey Daragan (Russia)
• Vache Sevajian (USA)
• Andrew Durniat (USA)
• Michael Burke (USA)
• Carlos F. Rivera Pagan (USA)
• Brad Ardrey (USA)
• Alan Barch Jr. (USA)
• Carl Myerscough (USA)
• Bojan Pejic (Sweden)
• Nikita Krivosheev (Russia)
• David Shamey (Russia)
• Slghi Choi (South Korea)
• Tanner Merkle (USA)
• Ivan Cuk (USA)
• Nikita Yurkovets (Belarus)

I completely agree with you

[Bill Piche]

9 hours ago, Jared P said:

As for what constitutes "world class", it is merely an argument of definitions.

The definition of world-class according to Google:
- adj.
- (of a person, thing, or activity) of or among the best in the world, "a world-class player"
- being of the highest caliber in the world, "a world-class athlete"

Based on this dictionary definition, I believe anyone who has certified on the CoC 3.5 could currently be considered world-class, as only 21 people have ever done it - certainly qualifying for "among the best in the world" status, in my opinion. Perhaps that will change in the future, but as it stands currently, you'd be hard pressed to have an argument that these Top 21 gripper athletes to ever do it are not "world-class".

• "Tex" Henderson (USA)
• Gabriel Sum (Germany)
• Rich Williams (USA)
• Jonathan D. Vogt (USA)
• Paul Knight (USA)
• Ioan Cristian Puscasu (Romaina)
• Sergey Daragan (Russia)
• Vache Sevajian (USA)
• Andrew Durniat (USA)
• Michael Burke (USA)
• Carlos F. Rivera Pagan (USA)
• Brad Ardrey (USA)
• Alan Barch Jr. (USA)
• Carl Myerscough (USA)
• Bojan Pejic (Sweden)
• Nikita Krivosheev (Russia)
• David Shamey (Russia)
• Slghi Choi (South Korea)
• Tanner Merkle (USA)
• Ivan Cuk (USA)
• Nikita Yurkovets (Belarus)

I agree. In fact, it became clear to me a LONG time ago that doing a #3 close was not the best in the world category-wise.  I would say the MM3 and above are likely world-class as well. Only 26 overall since 2004.  

[studman123]

As with every feat of strength, the standard improves every year. Just like how back then 800lbs would be a guaranteed top 3 in any major deadlift meet. Now 800lbs might not even get you close to a top 5. Still doesn’t mean it’s not an impressive feat of strength 800 is still 800! 
 

that being said, I wonder what coc#4 with a ccs would be equivalent too. Surely it’s comparable to breaking that 500kg deadlift barrier. No ones done either yet although the strongman world deadlift champs’ is comming up soon and they’re gunning for 505kg (not sure if anyone will get it yet). 500kg+ is absolutely mind blowing not taking anything away from it but keep in mind that it’s done with an assisted deadlift suit and straps every equipment possible basically. But closing a 4 is done with nothing but pure hand crushing strength and with adding the ccs to it adds a whole another level of difficulty. So they’re  probably an identical feats of strength but I give the upper hand to the coc#4….but that’s just my two cents  keen to see what your thoughts are? 

[EmilBB]

3 hours ago, studman123 said:

As with every feat of strength, the standard improves every year. Just like how back then 800lbs would be a guaranteed top 3 in any major deadlift meet. Now 800lbs might not even get you close to a top 5. Still doesn’t mean it’s not an impressive feat of strength 800 is still 800! 
 

that being said, I wonder what coc#4 with a ccs would be equivalent too. Surely it’s comparable to breaking that 500kg deadlift barrier. No ones done either yet although the strongman world deadlift champs’ is comming up soon and they’re gunning for 505kg (not sure if anyone will get it yet). 500kg+ is absolutely mind blowing not taking anything away from it but keep in mind that it’s done with an assisted deadlift suit and straps every equipment possible basically. But closing a 4 is done with nothing but pure hand crushing strength and with adding the ccs to it adds a whole another level of difficulty. So they’re  probably an identical feats of strength but I give the upper hand to the coc#4….but that’s just my two cents  keen to see what your thoughts are? 

Agreed, there's already two guys who deadlifted 500kg+ with 5+ guys capable of also lifting 500kg+. Ivan Makarov, Rauno Heinla, Pavlo Nakonechnyy, Peiman Maheripourehir and Mitch Hooper come to mind, I'm sure I'm missing someone. However the point is that 500kg+ has already been done twice and I believe there's more on the way. Whereas with the CoC 4 CCS cert, it hasn't been done yet. There's 4 guys who potentially could do it, maybe more, again I might be missing someone. Ivan Cuk, David Shamey, Nathan Holle & Carl Myerscough. So as of right now, I think a #4 should be considered harder than a 500kg deadlift. Even though there's a lot more deadlifters, than there is gripsters.

[Bill Piche]

3 hours ago, studman123 said:

As with every feat of strength, the standard improves every year. Just like how back then 800lbs would be a guaranteed top 3 in any major deadlift meet. Now 800lbs might not even get you close to a top 5. Still doesn’t mean it’s not an impressive feat of strength 800 is still 800! 
 

that being said, I wonder what coc#4 with a ccs would be equivalent too. Surely it’s comparable to breaking that 500kg deadlift barrier. No ones done either yet although the strongman world deadlift champs’ is comming up soon and they’re gunning for 505kg (not sure if anyone will get it yet). 500kg+ is absolutely mind blowing not taking anything away from it but keep in mind that it’s done with an assisted deadlift suit and straps every equipment possible basically. But closing a 4 is done with nothing but pure hand crushing strength and with adding the ccs to it adds a whole another level of difficulty. So they’re  probably an identical feats of strength but I give the upper hand to the coc#4….but that’s just my two cents  keen to see what your thoughts are? 

I am not so sure about the deadlift overall.  But, I do think there are definitely more people performing the lift due to the invention of social media. And, exchanging methods of training. With that said, the reason I am not sure is the invention of these SPONGY deadlift bars.  Also, the fact that the sumo deadlift as a technique was definitely not a thing decades ago. Very few did the sumo.  In fact, some people go as far to say it's "cheating."