opnsysme Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I have been complacent in my training for consistency in #3 closes. So I have been trying to figure out my sticking points and a new training program. So after reading old posts, studying KTA and more recently reading John Wood's site I meshed together an idea. I think I agree with John Wood about wrist strength having something to do with crushing big grippers. Think about it, people who bend say don't bend and crush at the same time because bending kills the crush. KTA says don't do any other exercises while performing the program. Also if you read Bender's story and others, after working with the blob they can magically close consistently the #3. What do all of these have in common? The wrist! I notice when I bend DO its a lot of wrist, when I attempt my 47 lb blob my hand (others as well) is cocked (stressing the wrist), and when crushing a big gripper my wrist cocks to emphasize more strength naturally. So I decided to test my theory and start with light blob wrist curls. I have a 25 lb hex blob that when I turn and do wrist curls puts my hand in a open gripper position. I will do regular wrist curls 5x5, and until my strength comes up reverse holds of the blob wrist curl. What so you guys think? Now once again, I'm not claiming anything new or radical, just pulling from the experience of a lot of strong guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king crusher Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 you could very well be on to something. sounds logical to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Edgin Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Your wrist cocks back because you are thrusting your thumb pad forward. And ya won't close heavy grippers by doing wrist curls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opnsysme Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Maybe not wrist curls Clay but what about Blob wrist curls? I think that is the key due to hand position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Dockery Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I don't think anyone has tried it. Worth a shot in my opinion. If nothing else, we will gain knowledge. Let us know how things turn out after a few months of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opnsysme Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 I will, I guess maybe I will start a training log. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagual Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 (edited) I believe the wrist cocks because of favorable bio-mechanics. It's the strongest position for the crush. If anything, closing a gripper has more to do with wrist flexion, than extension. I've never felt anything in the extension muscles when gripping, but sure have felt it in the flexion muscles. Strong extensors etc rather provide a stable foundation for gripper strength, I believe. Maybe Bender simply increased his thumpad size so he could place the gripper better, or/and wide pinch finger strength is transferrable to crush strength? Edited January 20, 2005 by nagual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foggymountainmuscle Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I try to work all aspects of grip. I'm the kind that doesn't concentrate and tries to do it all. Goals come slower this way but more get accomplished in a given time period, for myself anyway. I think wrist strength is an important part of grip. I have these 3" thick sections of pipe and it is considerably difficult to grab them off center but when your fingers plant that sucker into the palm of your hand and your wrist can keep it level, your hand feels like a vice. The object just wouldn't go up if both aspects of wrist and grip were there. This example can easily be applied to the crush when you are talking about mashing two different objects together, say two sledges, and you want to man handle them, not just pick them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 One of the best methods of reaching a goal is to establish where you want to be and work your way backwards. You can break every component down into smaller parts and focus on them in order to make "the thing" happen. When it comes to grippers, and other training as well. that you need to take into account every aspect that makes up the big picture. This means adddressing the primary muscle groups(obviously), but also the opposing muscle groups as well as supporting structures are just as important. Like many people here, I have at times gone overboard with my training. I wanted to close that next gripper so badly that I was doing twoi hours of crush work and little else. Well I made some gains, for a little while, but then I hit the wall and I couldnt figure out why. Well I too a step back and though about it. I reasond that by doing this I was no doubt strengthing a "weak link" i.e. the crushing muslces, but at the same time, making a "strong link" i.e the wrist, weaker by not addressing it in my training. As you might expect, it was a case of one step forward and one step back. I was going nowhere fast. So I cut down on the number of crushing exercises added some specidic wrist strength work and BAM progress started back into overdrive. Well I would say this was just an individual thing but when the same results started happening to the few guys who came to me asking for advice on their crush programs, I knew I was onto something. I have found several other "keystone" type exercises like this as well in other areas. I also noticed that there were plenty of guys who did a lot of reps on the grippers who were reporting wrist problems. Hmmm. If you haven't joined my Iron hands newsletter, now is the time as I will be going over all kinds of great training info like workout design, exercise selection, tips and tricks and much more. Its a kind of magic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foggymountainmuscle Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Many gym trainees spend whole workouts on curls trying to build their biceps when they never work their lats or shoulders, possibly even their tricep to support it. John, do you think your experience with wrist training and crush that they are related in much the same way to my example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Exactamundo Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danegarreau Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Good Thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 See what I mean when I say it all fits together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew2 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I've found for myself the more rounded I keep my workout the better the results and the less pain down the road especialy when talking about grip. In other bigger movement exercises like presses, dead lifts,bench ect its easy to compensate for a weak point because your using so many different groups of muscles you can't always strictlly isolate. There was always though exercises I didn't like to do and didn't do as much as I should have but could kinda of get away with it. Since I've started grip training though I've found I have to make sure I'm keeping it mixed up so everything stays more even. Otherwise I don't make the gains I want and I end up with pain. Because I'm working alot smaller group of muscles and it also requires a little more recovery. Moral of the story the more balance you have the more strength you can obtain. When they bulid a span bridge they don't just support the top or the bottom they support both just my 2cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunny Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I was gonna ask John to cover this in his e-mails but I think he's one step ahead. Nice newsletter John. How do you arrange a program for a goal such as Crush a goal gripper i,e what type of things do you include in each workout and everyday things such as contrast baths and dexterity work are these included everyday I sometimes get sidetracked and don't do my hand health stuff and then my hands remind me to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Graeme, Great question. This is the kind of thing I will be covering in detail in my newsletter. I don't have time to go into it now but very soon...That goes for any other questions that anyone esle has as well. Send them to info@functionalhandstrength.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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