Ideal Grip Contest

[Eric Roussin]

First off, thank you JasonP for reviving this thread – it clearly had some life left in it!

I like reading everyone’s opinions on this topic. I really appreciate the detailed responses, so I figured I should put in a comparable effort in sharing some of my thoughts.

As a competitor, I love participating in contests that feature several events. If the events are varied and test different aspects of grip strength, I think it’s a great way of identifying the top competitors. I was fortunate to have a chance to compete in one of Adam Glass’ Grip Decathlons over a decade ago and it was awesome! I also featured ten events in the 2017 Canadian National Grip Sport Championships. Impressively, I think Adam’s contest was run in under 6 hours – mine took about 10 hours. So, it definitely makes for a long day. I don’t mind – I’m fine with a full day of grip when I organize or attend a contest, but I realize it isn’t for everyone (probably especially for those who are new to the sport).

I think the key to event selection is that the events should be varied. I’m not a big fan of contests where two of three events are thick bar. Even though thick bar lifts are my specialty, I recognize that these aren’t well-balanced contests.

From a more practical standpoint, as a promoter I generally prefer to include four or five events, plus a medley. I agree with most that the “big three” are a crushing event, a pinch event, and a thick bar event. I’m not exactly sure why I feel this way, but history likely plays a role. When I first got into the sport, these were the three core categories. So I think a well balanced contest would have these three. I generally feature some type of vertical lift, plus something else (either a key pinch event, an open-hand type of event, a hub – really anything else that I think would be cool to include as one of the main events). 

For a crushing event, a dynamometer is my favourite option, followed by the Silver Bullet, followed by block set grippers (there are other options, but these are the main three that I include in my contests). I like the dyno the best, because very little technique is involved, and it’s fast. I prefer the silver bullet to gripper closes, because even those who are inexperienced can close a gripper far enough to hold the bullet (given a sufficiently easy gripper). Getting the handles to touch can be very hard for someone who doesn’t know how to set a gripper. Grippers are a very technical event, which means a weaker individual with good technique could outperform a stronger individual. Of course, technique comes into play in almost any event, but it seems it is an especially big factor for grippers.

A note on grippers, or crushing strength more generally: it is the first type of grip strength someone thinks about when they first hear about grip sport or think of someone who has strong hands. For this simple reason, I think crushing events will always be mainstay in grip sport. It bothers me that crushing strength is my relative weakness as compared to the other aspects of hand strength. My handshake isn’t particularly strong, though most automatically assume it is based on my involvement in the sport. I wish I could crush someone’s hand on command (not that I ever would ).

As for event order, I don’t personally see a difference in terms of my performance. I’ve PR’d in the first event of a contest as much as I’ve PR’d in the last event of a contest. Mind you, my conditioning is probably better than most other competitors, given I’ve always trained a lot. I’ve run contests where I’ve started with a crushing event, some where I’ve started with a pinch event, and some where I’ve started with a thick bar event. My bigger consideration is the likelihood that an event will result in injuries or SKIN TEARS. My skin tears on most pinch events – not necessarily because of sharp corners; often it’s because of the way my skin stretches. Especially at high poundages. Almost without fail, the Euro and the Flask will result in me getting skin tears, and it pisses me off. So if I’m going to include one of these events, I’d rather include it later on in the contest. I think vertical lifts are a bit more dangerous overall, so I also prefer to include them later on in the contest. Thick bar lifts, especially one handed ones, I feel are quite safe, so I keep them near the front of the line-up.

I think an effort should be made to select events where grip strength is the biggest factor, rather than full body strength. For instance, I think the Napalm’s Nightmare is a better event for a grip contest than an axle, because the pick height is higher. Less taxing on the back. Overall body strength will always be a factor, but I don’t think it should be a major requirement in grip sport.

Like many others, I love grip medleys. Both designing them and competing in them. I like between 30-50 items, that last between 3-5 minutes. I try to include a mix of relatively easy, medium, hard, and very hard feats, and use the GSI database to help guide my weight selections. I will scale things slightly up or down (i.e. make the medley slightly harder or easier) based on who I expect to attend the contest. My goal is for everyone to be able to complete at least 10% of the feats, with hardly anyone completing 90% or more of them. In a 50-item medley, I might include five key pinch events, of which one would be easy, one or two would be medium, one or two would be hard, and one would be very hard. I try to do this for each lift category. So far, it’s been working pretty well. Variety is what makes medleys fun. Luckily I’ve been accumulating equipment for 25+ years, so I’m able to mix things up all the time. Medleys should always be the last event, and I don’t think it’s necessary to be super strict when it comes to judging. Rather than requiring lockout, I look for control. If someone drops an implement, to me this does not demonstrate control. As long as everyone is judged the same way, I think it’s fine. (Medley lifts don’t count for records purposes anyway.)

I prefer weight classes to hand size classes. There are two main things I don’t like about hand size classes. First is I feel it would be easy to cheat. If 7.75” was the cut-off between two classes, and your hand measured 8”, I feel it would be easy to cheat to make your hand seem less than 7.75”. It really comes down to how much of an effort you make to “stretch” your hand. You can’t really cheat a scale (if someone is watching). The other thing I don’t like is that most generally only consider hand length. While a long hand can certainly be beneficial for certain lifts (even many lifts), there are so many other factors. My hand span is much smaller than most, and my thumbs are relatively small, which puts me at a disadvantage for things like blobs. Sure, I have slightly longer than average hands, but my span is smaller than average. Other factors like palm width, hand thickness, etc. I’m sure have an effect on competitors’ potential in various events, so I think only using hand length would be unfair. Are weight classes the best way to arrange classes in grip sport? Possibly not. But all things considered, I think it’s the best option we’ve found so far.

I prefer the GSI weight classes to the Armlifting weight classes, where the weight increments increase as you get up to higher weights. The performance difference between a man who weighs 70 kg and a man who weighs 80 kg will tend to be larger than between a man who weighs 90 kg and a man who weighs 100 kg. The GSI database supports this.

I think the weight classes that are selected for a given contest can be based on the expected turnout. When I competed in the Canadian National Grip Sport Championships in Saskatchewan last year, there were just two classes: 105 kg and 105+ kg. And there were twice as many competitors in the 105+ kg class. The reason? Brad, Scott, and the other guys who got grip sport going in that area were already well established in strongman, so they were pulling from a pool of big men. If, on the other hand, I set up a contest at a climbing gym, it would make more sense to offer some lighter weight classes.

I like the chance of winning something when I compete. Just knowing that I won or performed well in a contest doesn’t do it for me – I like to have proof! I know, this can seem a bit childish, but I also see awards as souvenirs and they can help bring back good memories. I think the type of award should be aligned with the size and importance of the contest. The bigger the accomplishment, the more impressive the award. Cash is nice too, but to be honest, unless the amount is substantial, I’d rather win some type of award (be it a medal, plaque, trophy, belt, hammer, sculpture, or something unique and custom made).

I much prefer last man standing for the contest format. I feel it’s just so much easier and less stressful, particularly for newer competitors. If someone has limited or no experience with a given event, it’s hard for them to know which weights to attempt. I can be very easy to make a mistake of either bombing out or leaving plenty left in the tank. With last man standing, using pre-set weight increments, you can just keep going until you can’t.

Reverse strongman and percentage-based scoring both have their strong points. In a single venue contest, I actually like the element of strategy that reverse strongman brings to the table. You can choose to conserve energy based on how you fare against the competition in a given lift. Whether you outlift someone by 1 pound or 100 pounds, the score could be the same, so there isn’t much a point of tiring yourself if there’s no need. Mind you, when I compete my focus is much more on doing well in the contest, rather than on setting PRs or trying to break records. These are nice, but I want to win the contest. If PRs are more important to you, then percentage-based scoring could align better with your goals, as you would be rewarded more for big lifts.

I prefer single-day contests, on Saturday, that start late in the morning and wrap up in late afternoon. I would say that for most people, this just makes things easier overall. I’ve competed in several two-day events – they just generally require a larger financial and time commitment, which isn’t always easy to make.

For now, my contests only feature a single open division (generally with three weight classes for men and one for women). However, as participation increases, I can see myself running contests in the future that are either invitational (for experienced/accomplished competitors), or amateur-only (for newer/less accomplished competitors).

I’ve run most of my contests out of my basement gym, which works well enough for up to about 15 competitors. Beyond that, I’d prefer to run my contests out of a strongman or climbing gym. It’s also much better for exposure. The downside is that it requires a lot more work for me – especially if the contest includes a medley! I literally need to haul 3000+ lbs of weights and equipment – a big workout just before and after the contest.

I much prefer lifting to a cross bar than to lockout. As many have said, it’s just so much easier to judge.

Regarding time between attempts, it’s isn’t much a factor for most events in LMS format, except at the very beginning or at the very end when there may be a single competitor having to make back-to-back attempts. In these situations, I do allow a couple of minutes, but no more than five. Otherwise the contest drags on too long.

I don’t mind warming up with equipment that isn’t used in the contest (e.g. a second axle). However, I prefer that the same equipment be used by everyone in the actual contest.

I may share more thoughts later…

[BottledCitrus]

14 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

First off, thank you JasonP for reviving this thread – it clearly had some life left in it!

I like reading everyone’s opinions on this topic. I really appreciate the detailed responses, so I figured I should put in a comparable effort in sharing some of my thoughts.

As a competitor, I love participating in contests that feature several events. If the events are varied and test different aspects of grip strength, I think it’s a great way of identifying the top competitors. I was fortunate to have a chance to compete in one of Adam Glass’ Grip Decathlons over a decade ago and it was awesome! I also featured ten events in the 2017 Canadian National Grip Sport Championships. Impressively, I think Adam’s contest was run in under 6 hours – mine took about 10 hours. So, it definitely makes for a long day. I don’t mind – I’m fine with a full day of grip when I organize or attend a contest, but I realize it isn’t for everyone (probably especially for those who are new to the sport).

I think the key to event selection is that the events should be varied. I’m not a big fan of contests where two of three events are thick bar. Even though thick bar lifts are my specialty, I recognize that these aren’t well-balanced contests.

From a more practical standpoint, as a promoter I generally prefer to include four or five events, plus a medley. I agree with most that the “big three” are a crushing event, a pinch event, and a thick bar event. I’m not exactly sure why I feel this way, but history likely plays a role. When I first got into the sport, these were the three core categories. So I think a well balanced contest would have these three. I generally feature some type of vertical lift, plus something else (either a key pinch event, an open-hand type of event, a hub – really anything else that I think would be cool to include as one of the main events). 

For a crushing event, a dynamometer is my favourite option, followed by the Silver Bullet, followed by block set grippers (there are other options, but these are the main three that I include in my contests). I like the dyno the best, because very little technique is involved, and it’s fast. I prefer the silver bullet to gripper closes, because even those who are inexperienced can close a gripper far enough to hold the bullet (given a sufficiently easy gripper). Getting the handles to touch can be very hard for someone who doesn’t know how to set a gripper. Grippers are a very technical event, which means a weaker individual with good technique could outperform a stronger individual. Of course, technique comes into play in almost any event, but it seems it is an especially big factor for grippers.

A note on grippers, or crushing strength more generally: it is the first type of grip strength someone thinks about when they first hear about grip sport or think of someone who has strong hands. For this simple reason, I think crushing events will always be mainstay in grip sport. It bothers me that crushing strength is my relative weakness as compared to the other aspects of hand strength. My handshake isn’t particularly strong, though most automatically assume it is based on my involvement in the sport. I wish I could crush someone’s hand on command (not that I ever would ).

As for event order, I don’t personally see a difference in terms of my performance. I’ve PR’d in the first event of a contest as much as I’ve PR’d in the last event of a contest. Mind you, my conditioning is probably better than most other competitors, given I’ve always trained a lot. I’ve run contests where I’ve started with a crushing event, some where I’ve started with a pinch event, and some where I’ve started with a thick bar event. My bigger consideration is the likelihood that an event will result in injuries or SKIN TEARS. My skin tears on most pinch events – not necessarily because of sharp corners; often it’s because of the way my skin stretches. Especially at high poundages. Almost without fail, the Euro and the Flask will result in me getting skin tears, and it pisses me off. So if I’m going to include one of these events, I’d rather include it later on in the contest. I think vertical lifts are a bit more dangerous overall, so I also prefer to include them later on in the contest. Thick bar lifts, especially one handed ones, I feel are quite safe, so I keep them near the front of the line-up.

I think an effort should be made to select events where grip strength is the biggest factor, rather than full body strength. For instance, I think the Napalm’s Nightmare is a better event for a grip contest than an axle, because the pick height is higher. Less taxing on the back. Overall body strength will always be a factor, but I don’t think it should be a major requirement in grip sport.

Like many others, I love grip medleys. Both designing them and competing in them. I like between 30-50 items, that last between 3-5 minutes. I try to include a mix of relatively easy, medium, hard, and very hard feats, and use the GSI database to help guide my weight selections. I will scale things slightly up or down (i.e. make the medley slightly harder or easier) based on who I expect to attend the contest. My goal is for everyone to be able to complete at least 10% of the feats, with hardly anyone completing 90% or more of them. In a 50-item medley, I might include five key pinch events, of which one would be easy, one or two would be medium, one or two would be hard, and one would be very hard. I try to do this for each lift category. So far, it’s been working pretty well. Variety is what makes medleys fun. Luckily I’ve been accumulating equipment for 25+ years, so I’m able to mix things up all the time. Medleys should always be the last event, and I don’t think it’s necessary to be super strict when it comes to judging. Rather than requiring lockout, I look for control. If someone drops an implement, to me this does not demonstrate control. As long as everyone is judged the same way, I think it’s fine. (Medley lifts don’t count for records purposes anyway.)

I prefer weight classes to hand size classes. There are two main things I don’t like about hand size classes. First is I feel it would be easy to cheat. If 7.75” was the cut-off between two classes, and your hand measured 8”, I feel it would be easy to cheat to make your hand seem less than 7.75”. It really comes down to how much of an effort you make to “stretch” your hand. You can’t really cheat a scale (if someone is watching). The other thing I don’t like is that most generally only consider hand length. While a long hand can certainly be beneficial for certain lifts (even many lifts), there are so many other factors. My hand span is much smaller than most, and my thumbs are relatively small, which puts me at a disadvantage for things like blobs. Sure, I have slightly longer than average hands, but my span is smaller than average. Other factors like palm width, hand thickness, etc. I’m sure have an effect on competitors’ potential in various events, so I think only using hand length would be unfair. Are weight classes the best way to arrange classes in grip sport? Possibly not. But all things considered, I think it’s the best option we’ve found so far.

I prefer the GSI weight classes to the Armlifting weight classes, where the weight increments increase as you get up to higher weights. The performance difference between a man who weighs 70 kg and a man who weighs 80 kg will tend to be larger than between a man who weighs 90 kg and a man who weighs 100 kg. The GSI database supports this.

I think the weight classes that are selected for a given contest can be based on the expected turnout. When I competed in the Canadian National Grip Sport Championships in Saskatchewan last year, there were just two classes: 105 kg and 105+ kg. And there were twice as many competitors in the 105+ kg class. The reason? Brad, Scott, and the other guys who got grip sport going in that area were already well established in strongman, so they were pulling from a pool of big men. If, on the other hand, I set up a contest at a climbing gym, it would make more sense to offer some lighter weight classes.

I like the chance of winning something when I compete. Just knowing that I won or performed well in a contest doesn’t do it for me – I like to have proof! I know, this can seem a bit childish, but I also see awards as souvenirs and they can help bring back good memories. I think the type of award should be aligned with the size and importance of the contest. The bigger the accomplishment, the more impressive the award. Cash is nice too, but to be honest, unless the amount is substantial, I’d rather win some type of award (be it a medal, plaque, trophy, belt, hammer, sculpture, or something unique and custom made).

I much prefer last man standing for the contest format. I feel it’s just so much easier and less stressful, particularly for newer competitors. If someone has limited or no experience with a given event, it’s hard for them to know which weights to attempt. I can be very easy to make a mistake of either bombing out or leaving plenty left in the tank. With last man standing, using pre-set weight increments, you can just keep going until you can’t.

Reverse strongman and percentage-based scoring both have their strong points. In a single venue contest, I actually like the element of strategy that reverse strongman brings to the table. You can choose to conserve energy based on how you fare against the competition in a given lift. Whether you outlift someone by 1 pound or 100 pounds, the score could be the same, so there isn’t much a point of tiring yourself if there’s no need. Mind you, when I compete my focus is much more on doing well in the contest, rather than on setting PRs or trying to break records. These are nice, but I want to win the contest. If PRs are more important to you, then percentage-based scoring could align better with your goals, as you would be rewarded more for big lifts.

I prefer single-day contests, on Saturday, that start late in the morning and wrap up in late afternoon. I would say that for most people, this just makes things easier overall. I’ve competed in several two-day events – they just generally require a larger financial and time commitment, which isn’t always easy to make.

For now, my contests only feature a single open division (generally with three weight classes for men and one for women). However, as participation increases, I can see myself running contests in the future that are either invitational (for experienced/accomplished competitors), or amateur-only (for newer/less accomplished competitors).

I’ve run most of my contests out of my basement gym, which works well enough for up to about 15 competitors. Beyond that, I’d prefer to run my contests out of a strongman or climbing gym. It’s also much better for exposure. The downside is that it requires a lot more work for me – especially if the contest includes a medley! I literally need to haul 3000+ lbs of weights and equipment – a big workout just before and after the contest.

I much prefer lifting to a cross bar than to lockout. As many have said, it’s just so much easier to judge.

Regarding time between attempts, it’s isn’t much a factor for most events in LMS format, except at the very beginning or at the very end when there may be a single competitor having to make back-to-back attempts. In these situations, I do allow a couple of minutes, but no more than five. Otherwise the contest drags on too long.

I don’t mind warming up with equipment that isn’t used in the contest (e.g. a second axle). However, I prefer that the same equipment be used by everyone in the actual contest.

I may share more thoughts later…

 

 

in all seriousness. This was a good read. 

[PinchByPinch]

Being new to grip sport relative consistency in the events year after year would be good, as well as availability of the implements. Living in Australia it's expensive (and slow) to get stuff so it'd be nice to be able to compete in the same events and see progress in rankings. 

[Vinny F]

Great topic...  much of my thoughts are shared with most here so I'll save that.

I do think that 4 attempts per lift is too much.  3 is much more ideal from a time perspective.  More like powerlifting, but understanding there isn't a "total" from  a strategy perspective.  Still, I think an opener, a target/PR and then a final attempt as challenge/PR is more than enough and would speed up.  Especially in a sport already where 1 minute is given to take multiple attempts at same weight. I would prefer one legit attempt per each attempt......if weight comes up but not to completion/knock bar height, then no further tries within that attempt...not multiple pulld within a minute.  

Agree on weight classes, as its easier for most to understand who come from other sports... I like the NAGS/GSI classes over Armlifting.

and as Eric detailed out, if going with hand size- length is only one aspect and missing other dimensions is limiting and unrealistic to do prior to event start.

While I understand and appreciate grippers as a long time staple, and most often a gateway into grip, I do think its a bit different than an lifting actual weight or implement...just less ideal even with gripper ratings as its also the most individual between lifter and judge where its boring for anyone else watching.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Vinny F

[C8Myotome]

Also Eric, I don't think measuring hand length is something that can possible be cheated. I don't see why someone would want to "stretch" their hand to try to get into a harder hand length class, and there is really no way for someone to compress their own hand joints without obvious assistance to try to appear to have a shorter hand length. If you're concerned about someone purposely going into wrist flexion to appear to have a shorter hand length, all it would require would be someone to lay the back of their hand flat on a table to ensure they are not flexing it, you could also have someone measure the wrist joint angle with a goniometer although these are not as precise as possible, but it would not be very hard to come up with some sort of standard, especially if you are having someone qualified to do the measuring, and not having people self-report what their hand size is in which case it could be measured wrong. I have 7.25" long hands and have been closing captains of crush 3.5's lately so it would be very interesting to see how that measures up to other people.

Also, if the whole point of grip lifts being more accessible everyone by not having full body strength matter, then why are weight classes used? If you have someone that doesn't even lift at all but does do grip stuff vs someone who had an extra 50 lbs of muscle becuase they do lift but all you're really comparing to each other is actual grip because the leg/back work requires negligible effort, I don't see why the person that doesn't lift gets to be in a lighter weight class while the person who has 50 lbs of extra leg/back/chest etc muscle mass weight is having that count against them, when it isn't even helping with their grip at all.

I've completed only powerlifting, not grip yet, but those are some of my thoughts.

[EmilBB]

I do think grippers should be in most competitions since they are probably the most popular implement. So more people can compare and appreciate the feat, most other implements are more niche and can be hard to replicate.

I think a format like strongman could be good. Most strongman competitions has a deadlift/squat, atlas stones and an overhead event, with the rest of the events usually changing from competition to competition. The sport of grip also seems to have a great variety of events available, so perhaps it could be done the same way. A few staple events and then some events that change.

I'm still fairly new to this sport, so I don't know if it's already being done this way.

Edited January 22, 2023 by EmilBB

[Eric Roussin]

1 hour ago, C8Myotome said:

Also Eric, I don't think measuring hand length is something that can possible be cheated. I don't see why someone would want to "stretch" their hand to try to get into a harder hand length class, and there is really no way for someone to compress their own hand joints without obvious assistance to try to appear to have a shorter hand length. If you're concerned about someone purposely going into wrist flexion to appear to have a shorter hand length, all it would require would be someone to lay the back of their hand flat on a table to ensure they are not flexing it, you could also have someone measure the wrist joint angle with a goniometer although these are not as precise as possible, but it would not be very hard to come up with some sort of standard, especially if you are having someone qualified to do the measuring, and not having people self-report what their hand size is in which case it could be measured wrong. I have 7.25" long hands and have been closing captains of crush 3.5's lately so it would be very interesting to see how that measures up to other people.

Also, if the whole point of grip lifts being more accessible everyone by not having full body strength matter, then why are weight classes used? If you have someone that doesn't even lift at all but does do grip stuff vs someone who had an extra 50 lbs of muscle becuase they do lift but all you're really comparing to each other is actual grip because the leg/back work requires negligible effort, I don't see why the person that doesn't lift gets to be in a lighter weight class while the person who has 50 lbs of extra leg/back/chest etc muscle mass weight is having that count against them, when it isn't even helping with their grip at all.

I've completed only powerlifting, not grip yet, but those are some of my thoughts.

My worry wouldn't be that people would try to get in a larger hand size class, but in a smaller hand size class. It's relatively easy to make my hand length vary by a quarter inch, depending on how much of an effort I put into trying to keep in perfectly straight. It would only really be an issue for those who are close to a division.

I feel body weight is the fairest/simplest method we've found so far for this sport, but it's not perfect. I do stand by my belief that hand strength should be the most important factor in any grip event. If a significant portion of competitors are limited in what they can lift in a given event because of something other than hand strength, then I would argue there are probably better event options.

[Lucasraymond]

One pinch event that hasn't been using in contest is the Thumb blaster that I make...it would be similar to an adjustable thickbar (having multiple sizes) but easy to switch out. The competitor would choose which size they want to use on their attempts ( 1 5/8", 2", 2 3/8") and other competitors would choose theirs and it is a quick switch of a carabiner. The thumb side is rounded pipe so the thumb tears would be limited and hand size wouldn't be limited also. So it would be like a faster version of the euro with 3 size options. I prefer to the one handed option due to cost and ease of use. 

[Lucasraymond]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:05 AM, Vinny F said:

Great topic...  much of my thoughts are shared with most here so I'll save that.

I do think that 4 attempts per lift is too much.  3 is much more ideal from a time perspective.  More like powerlifting, but understanding there isn't a "total" from  a strategy perspective.  Still, I think an opener, a target/PR and then a final attempt as challenge/PR is more than enough and would speed up.  Especially in a sport already where 1 minute is given to take multiple attempts at same weight. I would prefer one legit attempt per each attempt......if weight comes up but not to completion/knock bar height, then no further tries within that attempt...not multiple pulld within a minute.  

Agree on weight classes, as its easier for most to understand who come from other sports... I like the NAGS/GSI classes over Armlifting.

and as Eric detailed out, if going with hand size- length is only one aspect and missing other dimensions is limiting and unrealistic to do prior to event start.

While I understand and appreciate grippers as a long time staple, and most often a gateway into grip, I do think its a bit different than an lifting actual weight or implement...just less ideal even with gripper ratings as its also the most individual between lifter and judge where its boring for anyone else watching.

 

 

 

Grip lifts are much more finicky that powerlifting movements and friction based lifts (pinch, vbar, etc) being the most (sometimes the chalk isnt optimized or your hand position is off by the slightest amount and both of those make giant difference). Most people will get their best attempt with their first but not always...last man standing gives the most opportunity to get lifts in but 4 lifts is the right amount IMO. I prefer 30 sec time limits versus 1 minute anyways so you basically get one initial attempt and then time for a second attempt after your recollect. 

[Lucasraymond]

On 1/21/2023 at 4:20 PM, Eric Roussin said:

My worry wouldn't be that people would try to get in a larger hand size class, but in a smaller hand size class. It's relatively easy to make my hand length vary by a quarter inch, depending on how much of an effort I put into trying to keep in perfectly straight. It would only really be an issue for those who are close to a division.

I feel body weight is the fairest/simplest method we've found so far for this sport, but it's not perfect. I do stand by my belief that hand strength should be the most important factor in any grip event. If a significant portion of competitors are limited in what they can lift in a given event because of something other than hand strength, then I would argue there are probably better event options.

So I was talking with @Alawadhia couple years ago about how I felt my hand size (7 7/8") was limiting me from lifting any blob much more than 130/135 and he said if it is possible for you to lift it with two hands then that means you just aren't strong enough to lift it one handed. Very rarely does hand size truly limit someone from most grip contest movements...it comes down to strength (Yves Gravelle proves this with his sub 7.5 hands and lifting the Inch and 388lb IM axle). Now I cannot face lift a 100 blob because I cannot get my fingers over the edge of it so that is a true hand size limitation. 

[Alawadhi]

6 hours ago, Lucasraymond said:

So I was talking with @Alawadhia couple years ago about how I felt my hand size (7 7/8") was limiting me from lifting any blob much more than 130/135 and he said if it is possible for you to lift it with two hands then that means you just aren't strong enough to lift it one handed. Very rarely does hand size truly limit someone from most grip contest movements...it comes down to strength (Yves Gravelle proves this with his sub 7.5 hands and lifting the Inch and 388lb IM axle). Now I cannot face lift a 100 blob because I cannot get my fingers over the edge of it so that is a true hand size limitation. 

Wow this was like yesterday. How time flies!

[climber511]

Yves Gravelle cheats - he's actually bionic  

[Vinnie]

Eric, will you be promoting this Ideal Contest any time soon?  Looking forward to it!

[Ivan Pupchenko]

On 1/21/2023 at 8:08 AM, Eric Roussin said:

 

Great Eric! I could subscribe to every word you say! And under some twice, and under some - more times! Probably except for the medley - I have no experience of participating in this format. And about LMS - with correction. In the version in which you gave this format for the KK-23, when the step can be any, it really will rather help newcomers to prove themselves (as I have said and written many times - attracting newcomers has always been my great interest). Usually, at armlifting tournaments on our side of the Atlantic, the step is given at least 5kg. This simply legitimizes the potentially strongest, and the rest of the participants as statisys and donators to organizers. The moment of psychological and tactical struggle is excluded. I was the first three times at the armlifter World championships in the "4 att" format, and a certain times - 2nd and 3th. + I have been 1-3 at National Championships and Cups several times. As far as I remember, everywhere except of holding exercises (bullet and 50kg discs) I won against my rivals by reading their condition, strength and psychology by nonverbal signs and faces and "driving" them to weights that eventually did not give in to them. Although they were stronger than me. With a big step in the LMS, there is no such thing - you just pay a little money for your name in the final protocol... Also, when I participated on A1 in.. 2013, if I'm not mistaken. one of the organizers (and the participant at the same time) fail the weight and had to lose participation, but for some reason went to the next att., but I, after judge counted lift, when I had already left the platform, I was again called back by the organizers who canceled the judge's decision, and forced to lift the limit for me weight  again. As a result, that cheater was in the top, and I was one of the last. After that, I made a promise to myself not to participate in the LMS ever. In addition, it was one of my last performances in armlifting in general - and nothing can happen in my life at all so that I change my mind. LMS in your version gives me freedom as an organizer and participant, besides, for me, KK and gripsport are synonymous words, inseparable concepts. So let's see how it goes...

As for the psychology of competition and competition between rivals and myself, I also unequivocally agree with you. When I performed in the armlifting format, I was also primarily interested in the place that I would take in the protocol. In part, this was because the armlifting/ironmind devices are different every time. Different rotatability of the RT, different gripper force, different slippery paint on blocks and hubs, different corrosion on axels. Therefore, it was difficult to talk about any comparability of indicators at all. In the case of gripsport competitions, the results are more stable, with a slight correction, you can objectively compare yourself with yourself in the past and other participants. Therefore... At the KK, especially the last few years, it was more important for me to beat myself from the past. Even by a few grams. And a medal or a place on the list was just a nice bonus!...

Also, about the number of exercises at the event - I have been for a very long time (probably since school years) was interested in how a person's personality manifests itself in his actions when circumstances or conventions do not control him, or vice versa force him to act instinctively. Or vice versa, how a strong consciousness forces a person to overstep reflexes, to follow a difficult path even to the detriment of himself, but for the sake of ideas and principles. In sports and during competitions, this manifests itself very strongly, because participants often act in a state of passion, on instincts and reflexes, and not all acquired attitudes defeat the legacy of evolutionary ancestors written in the genes.. All this manifests itself in more or less explicit details of behavior, nonverbal signs, facial expressions, intonations and much more. A person reads like a book written in large type. and the more exercises there are at the tournament, the more psychologically difficult it becomes not only to win, but also just to participate - the more clearly the true filling of a person manifests itself. Sometime in the 17th, I held a tournament for beginners, where there were a lot of exercises. I'm too lazy to count - I'll attach the protocol and you can see yourself. Perhaps there were no super lifts, but considering the age, weight of the participants, and the fact that most had training experience from several weeks to six months, the results were not bad. The most interesting thing is that after several exercises, I was surprised myself how much my idea (already formed) about the participants is changing!... And it's not just that someone stopped at the beginning, and someone reached the last exercise. I needed to limit some of them so that they would have enough strength for more exercises and for sufficiently high results in all, and I caught others several times in the locker room and practically forced them to return to the gym with slaps on the back of the head. The conclusions that I made then were subsequently confirmed 100%. Firstly, very often there is more masculinity, willpower and resilience in a petite girl than in a hefty hairy man. And secondly.. people who could not bring themselves to go out on the platform and lift a piece of iron (which does not resist and does not kick you in the face on the ring) - they turned out to be weak and soft as sh"i"t in ordinary life...

In general, de Coubertin said that sport is the World... Maybe not the world - the world is still very big. But Sport is definitely more than just lifting irons, beating each other or running one after the other.. Everything that helps people to manifest and develop the best in themselves is "an act pleasing to God." And what you do for all of us is one of such acts, Eric!

BGSC-23.07.2017.xlsx

[Eric Roussin]

Ivan - Thanks for sharing this and your very kind words!

Vinnie - I was on track to host such a contest in 2020. It was to be the North American Championships, but then the pandemic hit and I couldn’t move forward. I’d like to try to do this again - maybe in 2024.

[Gripperer]

I'd have to get creative.

- Gyro ball (max RPM)

- Towel wring (lightest towel)

- Little Big Horn (max weight)

- Hub (max weight)

- 2x blue nail (fastest time)

Now that would be a weird competition.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Gripperer