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Is There A History Of Cheating In The Grip Community?


Jared Goguen

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As for the original question and how could one cheat grippers, I recall there being stories of people "foot stomping" their grippers. In other words, they put a dowel or something in the spring to hold it upright, then step on the gripper over and over again repeatedly and this supposedly made the gripper easier.

Not sure how much it was done or anything like that but it had been mentioned.

Then of course the gripper setting came in to play. I have to admit, the first time I saw somebody close a #3 with a very deep set, I couldn't believe it was legal and normal. Not knocking it of course, because when I dabbled in grippers, I definately did some MMS closes myself.

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I thought that stuff was like the pine tar for baseball bats and super-obvious due to getting everywhere and almost impossible to clean up afterwards. How the hell could someone have the balls to use

I'm not sure about why the "new, out of package" requirement was added, but it's a good way for IronMind to sell more grippers!

Maybe do it in a competition - the way things should be done if you really want it to be counted.

king crusher

As for the original question and how could one cheat grippers, I recall there being stories of people "foot stomping" their grippers. In other words, they put a dowel or something in the spring to hold it upright, then step on the gripper over and over again repeatedly and this supposedly made the gripper easier.

Not sure how much it was done or anything like that but it had been mentioned.

Then of course the gripper setting came in to play. I have to admit, the first time I saw somebody close a #3 with a very deep set, I couldn't believe it was legal and normal. Not knocking it of course, because when I dabbled in grippers, I definately did some MMS closes myself.

Whoever would do that is only fooling themselves. That's pathetic.

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JaredWith1R

Too many certified on "easy #3s".

And stories of easy #3's getting passed around.

I think the main reason for a lot of it was people became to proficient in closing them once interest grew and grip dudes began conversing in places like this. Ironmind needed to make the cert harder to make it a bit more "elite".

Exactly CORRECT! Ironmind tried to do something like this with the Red Nail Cert. The DO style was called into question and IM wanted to ban it, according to them it was steel "folding" not "bending". Too many guys were certing the Red so IM brought out the Gold.

This seems like a better way to update the bending certs, anyway. "Oh you can all do the red nail? Well then, what do you think of this Gold nail? Got that one. How about these rail road spikes? Not so big now, are ya!"

When people get too strong, make more weights.

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gripmaniac

As for the original question and how could one cheat grippers, I recall there being stories of people "foot stomping" their grippers. In other words, they put a dowel or something in the spring to hold it upright, then step on the gripper over and over again repeatedly and this supposedly made the gripper easier.

Not sure how much it was done or anything like that but it had been mentioned.

Then of course the gripper setting came in to play. I have to admit, the first time I saw somebody close a #3 with a very deep set, I couldn't believe it was legal and normal. Not knocking it of course, because when I dabbled in grippers, I definately did some MMS closes myself.

Whoever would do that is only fooling themselves. That's pathetic.

Yes, it was truly pathetic. Those with long memories remember those times (outrage, deleted threads, suspensions, bans, etc). Those were dark days that bred much mistrust. Bill had his work cut out back then :( .

Several old threads still exist - a search using the right words will find them (2005-06 era). The "worst" have been looong deleted (thankfully).

On the subject of "cheating" or rather faking personal achievements, there was talk/whispers of changing out the handle(s) on a spring to make it look like a harder gripper. I don't recall anyone being caught out - but it was really the pits of the whole saga. At no stage did this ever apply any to IM certs or any grip comp - it was purely certain individual claiming to have achieved (or almost achieved) certain feats. Ooops I left must have left the "s" off "individuals" by accident. . .my bad.

At the end of day don't believe everything you read on the internet or "see" on youtube.

Like many others here I really appreciate the efforts some go to when posting their achievement clips here - you'll probably never meet them but you'll have no reason to doubt them.

Dave

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Juha Harju

Yesterday after Bill locked #4 nowdays thread, two dudes from here gripboard sent to me interesting links. They includes " rowing with millenium dumbbell, no set closes with easy #4, rubber plates pinch cheating lifts and lot of similar incredible stories of "squat records" etc... Those things were happened 2005-2006. When I asked who wrotes this in internet with many different nicknames I got answer and after that I know all this is "true"! :laugh

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I didn't get my cert attempt gripper as a keeper. If it was offered to me I had rejected it though. I did not deserve it.

Sounds like your cert judge got a nice new #3 then. I wonder if he sent it back or kept it.
Lol I never asked. I still stay with my first comment though. I cannot imagine me asking ' hey, I understand I can keep this gripper?' after failing (a freakin' millimeter for pete's sake). Apart from that, I remember this video.....http://youtu.be/mjWAHtNbm1g

He was doing what was allowed back than and now the rules have changed. Big deal. The difference in strengthfeat is huge, of course.

When I cert I do it for my own accomplishment and for nothing or no one else. I would find it more disturbing when a person would still claim the title COC when he got it under the old rules, but never did a #3 CCS but still would talk like he certed under new rules and give me big time unwanted advice. I am not directing to anyone, let me be clear about that, I am pure hypothetically speaking.

I think the only reason you didn't get the cert attempt gripper, was because of the obvious disbelieve we all felt when the cert was lost. And maybe because of not knowing from the judge's side. Having refused it when it would have been offered, is a good thing though!

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Wannagrip

Yesterday after Bill locked #4 nowdays thread,

Let's provide some facts on this since I seem to get that impression from others at times....

There are more than several mods here. I don't lock all the threads and in fact very seldom am I the one locking them. We have a very experienced and synced up team moderating these forums. And, they are great to work with as well. We are very aligned. There is no way one person can watch over the board properly.

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Juha Harju

Yesterday after Bill locked #4 nowdays thread,

Let's provide some facts on this since I seem to get that impression from others at times....

There are more than several mods here. I don't lock all the threads and in fact very seldom am I the one locking them. We have a very experienced and synced up team moderating these forums. And, they are great to work with as well. We are very aligned. There is no way one person can watch over the board properly.

I meant only this thread: http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=43244

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climber511

Has there ever been cheating in the past in Grip - Yes. Is there cheating in all sports - Yes. Will there be in the future - more than likely. I don't think of a lot of it as deliberate "cheating" as much as taking advantage of what might be called loopholes in rule sets. That's why rules for things evolve over time - to address these things.

I agree that most of it is not what I would consider "cheating" - but taking advantage of loopholes in rules.

However, I have seen (and called the person in question on it) a grip competitor use a banned substance on the hands and then attempt to cover up the leftover "evidence" by energetically wiping off the implement before the next competitor's attempt. This wasn't some guy in his first contest either. This was a top tier guy. Using spray tacky on the hands. If that had been a contest that I promoted (or co-promoted), I would've kicked him out immediately. Point is that it does happen. Not often though, at least not to my knowledge.

An interesting side note for you Ben. I have tried Tacky on the Euro in my experimenting after hearing that (and other stories) and it was interesting. Tacky actually gives worse results than chalk above about 200#. Tacky works OK for one hand pinch (especially Blobs) and perhaps for a low level person on 2 hand. But as the weight gets heavy it either acts like a lubricant sort of or it kind of "balls up" and rolls you off. Spay tack is worse than stone tack but all of them I tried failed to give better results. Now on Axle it's a whole different story :). Tacky would be a huge advantage on something like a Medley.

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Wannagrip

Yesterday after Bill locked #4 nowdays thread,

Let's provide some facts on this since I seem to get that impression from others at times....

There are more than several mods here. I don't lock all the threads and in fact very seldom am I the one locking them. We have a very experienced and synced up team moderating these forums. And, they are great to work with as well. We are very aligned. There is no way one person can watch over the board properly.

I meant only this thread: http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=43244

Yeah, and I was not the person that locked it. That was my point. There is a whole TEAM of moderators here that work in the background unnoticed the majority of the time.

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Has there ever been cheating in the past in Grip - Yes. Is there cheating in all sports - Yes. Will there be in the future - more than likely. I don't think of a lot of it as deliberate "cheating" as much as taking advantage of what might be called loopholes in rule sets. That's why rules for things evolve over time - to address these things.

I agree that most of it is not what I would consider "cheating" - but taking advantage of loopholes in rules.

However, I have seen (and called the person in question on it) a grip competitor use a banned substance on the hands and then attempt to cover up the leftover "evidence" by energetically wiping off the implement before the next competitor's attempt. This wasn't some guy in his first contest either. This was a top tier guy. Using spray tacky on the hands. If that had been a contest that I promoted (or co-promoted), I would've kicked him out immediately. Point is that it does happen. Not often though, at least not to my knowledge.

An interesting side note for you Ben. I have tried Tacky on the Euro in my experimenting after hearing that (and other stories) and it was interesting. Tacky actually gives worse results than chalk above about 200#. Tacky works OK for one hand pinch (especially Blobs) and perhaps for a low level person on 2 hand. But as the weight gets heavy it either acts like a lubricant sort of or it kind of "balls up" and rolls you off. Spay tack is worse than stone tack but all of them I tried failed to give better results. Now on Axle it's a whole different story :). Tacky would be a huge advantage on something like a Medley.

I thought that stuff was like the pine tar for baseball bats and super-obvious due to getting everywhere and almost impossible to clean up afterwards. How the hell could someone have the balls to use that in a comp and why were they not suspended or banned from competing, especially since it was not a naive, new guy who didn't know better?

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Juha Harju

Yesterday after Bill locked #4 nowdays thread,

Let's provide some facts on this since I seem to get that impression from others at times....

There are more than several mods here. I don't lock all the threads and in fact very seldom am I the one locking them. We have a very experienced and synced up team moderating these forums. And, they are great to work with as well. We are very aligned. There is no way one person can watch over the board properly.

I meant only this thread: http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=43244

Yeah, and I was not the person that locked it. That was my point. There is a whole TEAM of moderators here that work in the background unnoticed the majority of the time.

My bad, sorry.

Good work! :)

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bencrush

Has there ever been cheating in the past in Grip - Yes. Is there cheating in all sports - Yes. Will there be in the future - more than likely. I don't think of a lot of it as deliberate "cheating" as much as taking advantage of what might be called loopholes in rule sets. That's why rules for things evolve over time - to address these things.

I agree that most of it is not what I would consider "cheating" - but taking advantage of loopholes in rules.

However, I have seen (and called the person in question on it) a grip competitor use a banned substance on the hands and then attempt to cover up the leftover "evidence" by energetically wiping off the implement before the next competitor's attempt. This wasn't some guy in his first contest either. This was a top tier guy. Using spray tacky on the hands. If that had been a contest that I promoted (or co-promoted), I would've kicked him out immediately. Point is that it does happen. Not often though, at least not to my knowledge.

An interesting side note for you Ben. I have tried Tacky on the Euro in my experimenting after hearing that (and other stories) and it was interesting. Tacky actually gives worse results than chalk above about 200#. Tacky works OK for one hand pinch (especially Blobs) and perhaps for a low level person on 2 hand. But as the weight gets heavy it either acts like a lubricant sort of or it kind of "balls up" and rolls you off. Spay tack is worse than stone tack but all of them I tried failed to give better results. Now on Axle it's a whole different story :). Tacky would be a huge advantage on something like a Medley.

The event in question was an Axle event. I didn't know that about tacky on the Euro.

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Has there ever been cheating in the past in Grip - Yes. Is there cheating in all sports - Yes. Will there be in the future - more than likely. I don't think of a lot of it as deliberate "cheating" as much as taking advantage of what might be called loopholes in rule sets. That's why rules for things evolve over time - to address these things.

I agree that most of it is not what I would consider "cheating" - but taking advantage of loopholes in rules.

However, I have seen (and called the person in question on it) a grip competitor use a banned substance on the hands and then attempt to cover up the leftover "evidence" by energetically wiping off the implement before the next competitor's attempt. This wasn't some guy in his first contest either. This was a top tier guy. Using spray tacky on the hands. If that had been a contest that I promoted (or co-promoted), I would've kicked him out immediately. Point is that it does happen. Not often though, at least not to my knowledge.

An interesting side note for you Ben. I have tried Tacky on the Euro in my experimenting after hearing that (and other stories) and it was interesting. Tacky actually gives worse results than chalk above about 200#. Tacky works OK for one hand pinch (especially Blobs) and perhaps for a low level person on 2 hand. But as the weight gets heavy it either acts like a lubricant sort of or it kind of "balls up" and rolls you off. Spay tack is worse than stone tack but all of them I tried failed to give better results. Now on Axle it's a whole different story :). Tacky would be a huge advantage on something like a Medley.

The event in question was an Axle event. I didn't know that about tacky on the Euro.

Why was this competitor not tarred & feathered?

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They were already tackied so would just need the feathers haha

I pitched it up and you, Sir, knocked it out park. Kudos. :)

Seriously, though, I am eager for more details on this matter.

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I didn't get my cert attempt gripper as a keeper. If it was offered to me I had rejected it though. I did not deserve it.

Sounds like your cert judge got a nice new #3 then. I wonder if he sent it back or kept it.
Lol I never asked. I still stay with my first comment though. I cannot imagine me asking ' hey, I understand I can keep this gripper?' after failing (a freakin' millimeter for pete's sake). Apart from that, I remember this video.....http://youtu.be/mjWAHtNbm1g

He was doing what was allowed back than and now the rules have changed. Big deal. The difference in strengthfeat is huge, of course.

When I cert I do it for my own accomplishment and for nothing or no one else. I would find it more disturbing when a person would still claim the title COC when he got it under the old rules, but never did a #3 CCS but still would talk like he certed under new rules and give me big time unwanted advice. I am not directing to anyone, let me be clear about that, I am pure hypothetically speaking.

I think the only reason you didn't get the cert attempt gripper, was because of the obvious disbelieve we all felt when the cert was lost. And maybe because of not knowing from the judge's side. Having refused it when it would have been offered, is a good thing though!
Hey thnx man. Appreciate that. Well, it's a pride thing lol some things have to be earned.
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If there's cheating in closing grippers, if someone did something ridiculous (like close a pro) how could he (the closer) prove its not cheating (modifying the gripper in any way that makes it easier)??

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climber511

If there's cheating in closing grippers, if someone did something ridiculous (like close a pro) how could he (the closer) prove its not cheating (modifying the gripper in any way that makes it easier)??

Maybe do it in a competition - the way things should be done if you really want it to be counted.

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Alawadhi

Maybe this topic has been covered but if it was I wasn't able to find it.

I was thinking about how Ironmind has there rules setup for certifying grippers where it needs to be a new out of the package gripper...etc. and the changes in the rules that they made in the mid 2000's. That started me thinking about if people have cheated or modified grippers to make them easier to close and I just don't see how that could be done.

I can only think of three ways that you could try and cheat on a gripper close, changing the handles so a CoC #2 spring has CoC #3 handles but if you put digital callipers on the spring it would be shown to be too small so that doesn't work, slight of hand where you trade out one gripper for another is a possibility but that seems really unlikely to me at least, and lastly would be the annealing of the spring with heat to try and make it softer and in turn an easier close but I don't really see how that is possible either. I have a pretty good understanding of metallurgy and if you took a torsion spring up to its transition temperature, let it cool it would likely be malformed some and if you then tried to close it and let it open I have a very good feeling that the spring would deform some. Also if you tried to anneal the gripper with the aluminium handles on it they would start to heat anodize which would show the tampering.

So what gives for the new out of package gripper rule? Am I missing something?

Timmy

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Justin Matney

I personally think the credit card set rule as well as the "new out of the package" rule are great. The Ironmind gripper book goes into great detail about events that led up to these rule changes.

People searching for the weakest #3 was the main catalyst for the new out of the package requirement. Seems like this was far more common than altering the gripper. It just wasn't in the spirit of the certification though. Just like with everything, once word spread and interest caught on, you had people exploiting every conceivable loophole.

And of course the deep set was the main reason for the credit card rule. And like I said, it's great. Deep sets are absolutely valuable in training, but they're not closes, and they shouldn't even be passed off as closes on YouTube, let alone during an official cert attempt. Seriously. I can't count the number of "coc#3 close" videos that are in essence 2 hand closes--shut it down with both hands, hold it shut with one hand long enough to get it on video.

I've even seen video attempts on grippers slightly harder than a #3 where the crush was wider than the set, if that makes sense. At that point you're out of your league, and you need to move down a level and master that first.

And the cert list reflects this change. 5-10 guys per year cert on the #3 now, as opposed to 49(!) guys certing in 2003 alone.

So yeah, call it what you want, but if it wasn't cheating, it was certainly a compromising of ideals and an exploitation of loopholes.

I think we're all better off. Fewer guys cert, but it means more than deep setting your buddy's easy #3.

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Paul Savage

I personally think the credit card set rule as well as the "new out of the package" rule are great. The Ironmind gripper book goes into great detail about events that led up to these rule changes.

People searching for the weakest #3 was the main catalyst for the new out of the package requirement. Seems like this was far more common than altering the gripper. It just wasn't in the spirit of the certification though. Just like with everything, once word spread and interest caught on, you had people exploiting every conceivable loophole.

And of course the deep set was the main reason for the credit card rule. And like I said, it's great. Deep sets are absolutely valuable in training, but they're not closes, and they shouldn't even be passed off as closes on YouTube, let alone during an official cert attempt. Seriously. I can't count the number of "coc#3 close" videos that are in essence 2 hand closes--shut it down with both hands, hold it shut with one hand long enough to get it on video.

I've even seen video attempts on grippers slightly harder than a #3 where the crush was wider than the set, if that makes sense. At that point you're out of your league, and you need to move down a level and master that first.

And the cert list reflects this change. 5-10 guys per year cert on the #3 now, as opposed to 49(!) guys certing in 2003 alone.

So yeah, call it what you want, but if it wasn't cheating, it was certainly a compromising of ideals and an exploitation of loopholes.

I think we're all better off. Fewer guys cert, but it means more than deep setting your buddy's easy #3.

This is completely false what you are saying about deep set closes not being closes, training at the heaviest resistence is generally speaking, the best way of getting stronger with grippers. Using a deep set, 20mm block etc is the best way to determine the heaviest gripper someone can close. This is why this set has been the rule for many competitions over the years and still is for the vast majority of contests, it's a great way to test crush strength. Using the credit card is not just a test of crush strength, a lot of other things are involved and for some hand size is a big issue.

If you can close a #3 mms you shouldnt say 'oh i used my other hand so i cheated, i'll drop down to #2 and just use the one hand' in this case you simply would not progress as well as those who used mms. You would also do much worse on grippers if you competed.

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Justin Matney

Right, I absolutely believe that deep set closes are of great value in training, and I have used them quite beneficially in my own training. I guess what I should have said is deep set closes are not sufficient in proving that you have mastered a given gripper.

And what is an official cert attempt if not proof of mastery?

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