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Hypothetical Question


Wannagrip
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Steve, you did enhance my argument. Which is, there is basically little to no data for a grip specialist using the amount of drugs some guys in strongman use.

Put somone like Heath on a boatload of drugs, let him focus on grip, and my guess would be the results would astound everyone.

By the way, who started this thread!? :laugh

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Steve, you did enhance my argument. Which is, there is basically little to no data for a grip specialist using the amount of drugs some guys in strongman use.

Put somone like Heath on a boatload of drugs, let him focus on grip, and my guess would be the results would astound everyone.

I thought I'd postulated otherwise using the given that we have a number of closers here who we can almost certianly (but not 100%) agree haven't used and yet still succeeded.

I do agree that Heath et al, if so inclinded, would benefit in some grip events (those like the v-bar lift which requires some whole body involvement) but not specifically grip per se.

Blimey Kinney himself is proof that it isn't a requirement and therefore negates any supposed advantage.

I do agree it might well tarnish any success but only in our minds as (I feel) no advantage is gained. Peace.

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I really like the new mosher smilie :mosher:mosher:mosher

How bout a Mobster smilie, it can be twice the size as a normal one with some goofy glasses.....

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I repeat that the harder you train, providing you also recover, the stronger you will become. This includes grip training. There are drugs that aid in doing this. I am inclined to believe that anyone who argues that steroids and the like do not improve grip, is probably using them and does not want to feel guilty or be accused of cheating.

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What a topic...  Is Kinney's close in any way tarnished by the fact that he supplemented his training by swallowing horse pills?

BC.

God he's get my vote for swollowing the damn things - now if he did tamper with the gripper that'd be different and I'd feel more agrieved at that than any potential use of 'juice'.

Right on. I was just trying to cut-off the inevitable "how is taking steroids any different than taking protein powder?" response. But to answer Bill's initial question, yes, for me, it would tarnish the accomplishment.

BC.

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I repeat that the harder you train, providing you also recover, the stronger you will become. This includes grip training. There are drugs that aid in doing this. I am inclined to believe that anyone who argues that steroids and the like do not improve grip, is probably using them and does not want to feel guilty or be accused of cheating.

I think the argument is that they only improve it a little (since recovery is fast for hands anyway) and are therefore not worth using. Would you subject yourself to the expense, healthrisk and risk of incarceration for an extra 5% of crushing strength?

Given gripper variances, you might be better served by shopping around for an easier gripper than taking drugs.

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I do not agree. On steroids you would be able to train very much harder, and recover much sooner than without them. The results would surely be more than just minimal.

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I repeat that the harder you train, providing you also recover, the stronger you will become. This includes grip training. There are drugs that aid in doing this. I am inclined to believe that anyone who argues that steroids and the like do not improve grip, is probably using them and does not want to feel guilty or be accused of cheating.

Some how I knew you'd be the one (I had wanna in 2nd place) that would think that. Personal attacks and or inferences are not the best way to prove a point.

If I have and can tell you that they don't all arguements would be null and void but there would still be people that argue the opposing point. What next - you took some but not enough? You didn't take any and therefore are not talking from experience? C'mon argue your point without reverting to lowest common denominator - I know you can do it.

Here's a challenge. Take some drugs and prove me wrong! :whacked

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I really like the new mosher smilie :mosher:mosher:mosher

How bout a Mobster smilie, it can be twice the size as a normal one with some goofy glasses.....

and a tie :)

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I do not agree. On steroids you would be able to train very much harder, and recover much sooner than without them. The results would surely be more than just minimal.

Oldguy,

How much do they help a powerlifter in the big three? 15%? Maybe 20%? It is easy as non-users for us to imagine that steroids will multiply your strength several fold, but that is not true. I think they make a bigger difference for bodybuilders than for strength athletes.

I think the differences for grip will be much smaller than for big compound exercises, for the reasons discussed above.

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I do not agree. On steroids you would be able to train very much harder, and recover much sooner than without them. The results would surely be more than just minimal.

Oldguy,

How much do they help a powerlifter in the big three? 15%? Maybe 20%? It is easy as non-users for us to imagine that steroids will multiply your strength several fold, but that is not true. I think they make a bigger difference for bodybuilders than for strength athletes.

I think the differences for grip will be much smaller than for big compound exercises, for the reasons discussed above.

That is my arguement. Now as to whether or not it is morally wrong is 100% the opinion of the individual.

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Here's a challenge. Take some drugs and prove me wrong!

Have you taken them and it has proven you to be right? I do not know where to get drugs. Perhaps you could tell me. If you guys haven't taken them, can you know more than myself who also has not used them? I have made no personal attacks.

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You said 'I am inclined to believe that anyone who argues that steroids and the like do not improve grip, is probably using them and does not want to feel guilty or be accused of cheating'. In other words anyone who disagrees is a user - v naughty.

As for where you can get them - any hardcore gym. As for knowledge the internet, books, magazines and this site itself have provided me with a wealth of info - the same sources you can use.

This site, in an old thread of about 4-6 months ago, provided me with the info that leverage etc is as importent as muscle tissue when it comes to grip strength.

www.mickhart.com is my main source of info on roids as are several books I own (2-3 of well over 150).

Sites like the board at McShane where you can join and ask the question would help you to.

I know that you can prove the validity of your argument with references if you so desire. Go to it! :happy

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Muscles provide the power to move the levers. It is absurd to believe that steroids will help you to strengthen the muscles, except for those of the forearms and hands. The ones which govern grip. Is there something different about the grip muscles which causes them to not be affected as much by drugs as the other muscles of the body?

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Muscles provide the power to move the levers. It is absurd to believe that steroids will help you to strengthen the muscles, except for those of the forearms and hands. The ones which govern grip. Is there something different about the grip muscles which causes them to not be affected as much by drugs as the other muscles of the body?

No but to repeat myself they are, in accordance with previous posts, on a par with other also mentioned factors not affected by roids.

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I have been told by a strongman that the anabolic steroid

HALOTESTIN especially when used in conjunction with the pain medication called NUBAINE enhcnace the ability to hold on much longer to both farmers walk and hercules hold.

We were not talking about grippers or crushing power.

I am NOT on steroids but it is generally the first thing people ask me about or- behind my back -accuse me of.

I have gathered through conversations with many that there are strongmen who are clean and many who are not.

i won't name those that I believe are clean...as that would cast a shawdow on those that I don't list.

i think it is more prevalent in many sports than we ever want to know.

My peronal feeling IS:it is NOT worth it unless you are going to make a boat load of money.PRO:Football,Baseball,Hockey,Basketball type money is what I am talking about.

When it's that type of money?It is still wrong...but it would perhaps be justified as a calculated risk for a lot of money.

It would have to be a lot of money before I would even have those thoughts and I do not have the talent to worry about it.

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Whoa-How did I miss this HUGE post! :blink

Today when I was walking to my car after work-some dude (yes-an adult) walked up to me and told me he needed money to fix his Gameboy, then he pulled a ratty old gameboy out of his pocket.

I told him I had no money on me-and he walked away.

Using steriods to achieve strength milestones is kinda like being an adult man and having to ask for money off the streets of a town with population of less than 20,000, to fix your Gameboy.

Or atleast it would have to feel the same inside.

I'm tired-

Rick Walker :rock

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John,

How do we get the genie back in the bottle?What do we say to the champions of the past that have used?

It is pretty hard to reverse the course of sports when we are surrounded by 'it'?When millionaire baseball players admit to it...and athletes- that kids look up to- suddenly look like the 'michelin man' and are blasting 50 plus home runs a year?

Milo is a magazine that at times gives an anti drug message - that we can leave on the coffee table or that kids can read?....yet many athletes that WE are pretty sure have used 'something'are written about and glorified and described almost as legends?And even events -that are covered in Milo- 'may' be dominated by athletes that are useing.

I'm not complaining about Milo but it would seem that many of the stories have featured athletes that have perhaps been enhanced?

How many of us?(not saying you) have pics of ourselves with arms draped around or hands extended -with smiles on our face-to living legends or current strength champions...?Champions that have more than likely utilized some form of chemical to have done what they have done.

Some of the members of this forum probably have such pics...even though most of us would never use.

It is a confusing situation for sure.

They may not have a place in sports for any reason? but again if i had a huge contract on the line and hundreds of thousands or millions per year up for grab AND i knew those vying for the job were 'enhanced'..i'd have to think about it.Consider all options.For THAT kind of money?!?!?!

Even at that i don't know that i would...

Fortunately :cry I don't have to worry about this decision.

To win a trophy? a medal?champion of some regional or state or even national championship?or to close a gripper?

Not even a consideration.

Even the money available in pro strongman..again not something I will likely have to worry about-wouldn't be enough to entertain the 'choice'.

Rick,

What big post are you referring to?i must have missed it too?

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