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Hypothetical Question


Wannagrip

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Gripintime2

Has it ever been determined that 'roids help grip?

Or would it be that being able to work other powerlifting movements (deadlifts; etc..) harder would then lend to a grip enhancement as a by product?

This being said, IMO it would taint the accomplishment and the baseline by which everything should be and has been measured.

Just my two cents.

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Bob Lipinski
I dont think it changes a thing.

the person will still have to train....if not harder to close the thing.

I hear this point often, and it never makes sense- "But you have to train harder when you take steroids!"

No you don't. You will get more gains with the same amount of work, and you can tolerate more work for more gains. Why would anyone use steroids if they didn't make things easier?

That being said, it always is a bummer that drug use is so pervasive in the iron game. Sometimes it is just refreshing to see someone honest about drug use.

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Wannagrip
have educated yourself properly as to roid use, its true side effects, the benefits etc.

Wrong assumption Steve.

And to think the enhancements due to steroids and other performance enhancing drugs somehow "isolate" themselves away from the grip muscles in all people is comical! :laugh:laugh

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Jonathan McMillan

Correct me if I'm wrong (but please remember my source of info is from memories /vague memories of muscle media articles (this is embarassing to even mention this)) but weren't steroids used in olympic weightlifting competitons for the boost on the nervous system, not just for the anabolic boost?

Jon@han

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Gripintime2

I hope my reply post wasn't taken wrong, Wanna.

Maybe my ingorance on steroid issue. Never been around them...never wanted to use them.

I always associated them with 'pushing' and 'pulling' improvements. With improvements of the 'pulling', that would lead to increases in grip........it would have to if movements that involve grip are being maximized workout to workout (dl's; chins; c/j's; etc...)just putting two and two together.

Mobsterone, thanks for your post and clarification on the 'tendon' effects. There have been many stories of the after effects of use and 'tears' and breakdowns, but .... again with my ignorance

(or isolation) my knowledge of what happens during the 'gain' period on the tendons is 'nil.

Again, the main question is would it taint the close of a #4,

and I have to reaffirm in my mind it would.

Edited by Gripintime2
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Steve are you saying that you have used drugs, and that it did not improve your grip, or are you saying that you know those who do and it has not improved their grip?

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terminator
Sometimes it is just refreshing to see someone honest about drug use.

I agree with Mr. Lipinski on this point. Most people who claim that Steroids etc. do not help are usually trying to justify to themselves and others their own usage of these items.

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mobsterone
Mobster,

So you would predict that women have the same grip strength potential as men, since steroids give no advantage to grip training?

No - tendon thickness, attachements etc will (with the natural testosterone and or estrogen) IMO be 'better' or more advantagous in a man.

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mobsterone
Correct me if I'm wrong (but please remember my source of info is from memories /vague memories of muscle media articles (this is embarassing to even mention this)) but weren't steroids used in olympic weightlifting competitons for the boost on the nervous system, not just for the anabolic boost?

Jon@han

I can't remember the exact phraseology used by I think its something along the lines of neural pathway enhancement. That said there reported training five hours a day at 80-90% might also be a good reason.

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mobsterone
have educated yourself properly as to roid use, its true side effects, the benefits etc.

Wrong assumption Steve.

And to think the enhancements due to steroids and other performance enhancing drugs somehow "isolate" themselves away from the grip muscles in all people is comical! :laugh:laugh

I'd have prefered a reference to previous posts where we, as a group, had come to another decision (ie that muscles are not as involved as they might be - see my previous comments) rather than an attempt to belittle - viz 'comical'. I did not say that roids and or forearms muscles are somehow 'isolated'. My inference, if its not clear, is that leverage, tendon thickness (from training), muscle fibre type etc are sufficently different that the power that MIGHT come from use of roids is not sufficent to make it worthwhile.

If one is to present an opinion the best way would be to show the why's and 'where-ofs'. Now that I am aware you may have some working knowledge please discuss why, in your opinion, they WILL have an effect as opposed to my P.O.V.

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mobsterone
Steve are you saying that you have used drugs, and that it did not improve your grip, or are you saying that you know those who do and it has not improved their grip?

Neither. Do not read into or infer. Just take the comment at face value and feel free to discuss. Perhaps a straight forward Poll which states 'In your opinion and based only on that would using roids to shut a 4 be cheating' Yes or No.

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What a topic... Is Kinney's close in any way tarnished by the fact that he supplemented his training by swallowing horse pills?

BC.

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EricMilfeld

I think a close by a steroid user should come with a qualifier, creating two classifications of gripsters (drug, and drug- free athletes). Just as there are sererate competitions for men and women, so it should be for the drug, and drug- free athletes. So, as long as drug users compete only with others of the same persuasion, it's not cheating.

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Wannagrip

No belittling intended Steve. It is totally against all common sense. I am more surprised you even believe such nonsense.

Also, there are not too many heavy drug users who have really tried to specialize in grip training and everything related to it. So, your total conclusion that it has no effect is without any significant supporting data.

Someone also alluded to the enhancement of the nervous system which is also known to be true as well.

Just the simple notion that recovery of the muscles will be enhanced (how can you say THIS isn't so!?) is enough to say it helps grip strength. After all, last time I checked, the hands and forearms had muscles in them!! ;) LOTS of them!

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The use of steroids and other "illegal" performance enhancers is rampant in all sports. I don't think it really matters anymore. What is the difference between using specially engineered foods and steroids? I guess some pencil neck, overpaid, do gooder in washington decided one was bad. This is the same **** that want to make ephedrine illegal!

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Wannagrip
It's doubtful whether the #3 list of closers is steroid free..

why should the #4 list be any different.

Because it's such a feat that's so way out there. And, the only guy so far to do it was drug-free.

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Wanna,

I guess I can see Mobsters point in that steroids enhance recovery, and the small muscles used in the grip recover very fast anyway, so steroid use is less advantageous for grip training than it is for big compound exercises.

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Adam Black

Apdwler,

Uncle Sam cares more about how a substance is used as opposed to what it does. Taking a chemical for medical reasons is fine and dandy. But if one were to use that very same substance for recreational or athletic purposes, then it's normally made illegal. And if it isn't illegal, it soon will be.

This is just an observation, not an endorsement of any kind on my part. I have no intent of starting a personal freedom discussion.

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mobsterone
If drugs help you to train harder and also improve recovery, then they would certainly help you to strengthen your grip.

I'd argue not that you are wrong but only that it doesn't give as much of an advantage as one might presume and therefore if we all were aware of the tiny if any (and I think none at all) % of strength gained it would almost IMO not be worth taking.

Re the list of WSM: look down the list of non-gripboard members and I think we'd all agree that many, many (perhaps 40% IMO) may have used. But of the gripboard members who have shut a 3 few if any are obvious or appear to be blatent users. Which gives weight to my P.O.V. viz (lets says hypotheticly) there are 20 gripboard members who have or will shut a three shortly. Do we as a group see any, in our opinions, who appear to have used roids to do so 1? 2? any? Then cannot we say that you a) don't need to use em to shut grippers or b) as I postulate, that no if any real advantage is to be gained from there use where grippers are concerned?

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mobsterone
What a topic... Is Kinney's close in any way tarnished by the fact that he supplemented his training by swallowing horse pills?

BC.

God he's get my vote for swollowing the damn things - now if he did tamper with the gripper that'd be different and I'd feel more agrieved at that than any potential use of 'juice'.

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