Pda Devils Advocate (ivanko Super Gripper)

[Teemu I]

Nice review Teemu,

I know you will love it. My regular ISG is an invaluable training tool especially in the specific areas you mentioned. It works the sweep like nothing else and is great for bodyweight negatives.

Of course the Devils Advocate must be that and much, much more.

Please advise us as to how those handles work out in actuality. I am curious as to the real benefit of them. I do not train ISG to close grippers, I train with the ISG to get stronger hands which ib turn will help me close bigger grippers.

Paul, it's hard to describe how those knurled handles alter the way ISG works, you should get a chance to try it yourself, but anyway here's what I think after making a bit of comparison:

The benefits (I think these two are pretty obvious):

- no slippage

- knurled handles are thinner than those of the regular ISG, adds to the range of motion

BUT here's what I think might be the biggest benefit for those who want to close TSG's:

Handles are positioned to the ISG so that you can grasp it differently than you would grasp regular ISG. If you position your fingers and palm on the handles in a similar way that you would use with TSG, I mean pinky positioning and everything, IGDA mimics the action of a regular gripper close more accurately than regular ISG. I mean that positioning your fingers this way they are not pulling in the straight line, but are somewhat twisted to the pinky side, pretty much the way they are with TSG. This is something you should try and see for yourself, but this is what I think to be a biggest functional dfference. Might be that you get better carryover to TSG's. Hard to say after just two days of playing around with it.

[Teemu I]

One thing I'd like to add is that I've felt like I've had trouble involving my index and middle finger efficiently to the close. With IGDA, I feel like they have to work a lot more than they do with TSG's. Added range of motion I guess. I see that as a major benefit.

Any opinions how the tension ratings of ISG or IGDA compare to TSG's? I have to wait until I'm totally recovered to draw any conclusions myself.

Edited September 29, 2006 by Teemu I

[pdoire]

If you really want to strengthen the fingers you have mentioned, try the ISG with the pivot down (inverted) and do negs, this will strengthen those fingers greatly.

[Teemu I]

If you really want to strengthen the fingers you have mentioned, try the ISG with the pivot down (inverted) and do negs, this will strengthen those fingers greatly.

Yes, that is my plan. I also mean to use it the normal way, as this also feels like it's working those fingers more than TSG's. What a great tool!

Paul, as you have experience with ISG, what would say about how the tension ratings of ISG compare to TSG's?

[pdoire]

OK, The ISG ratings are "inner" and "outer" so the poundage ratings we see are dependent on hand position. The rating most often quoted is the "inner" because it is higher, even if the gripster is not putting his hand on the inner portion of the handle. Comparing is very tough because of that. I find that the 10,12 rating is harder than closing a three, that may be due to the spread. I do not know about yours but my ISG's spread is almost exactly a CCS set. As far as when I have used it at a 401 pound rating and such (inner) it is not as hard as the number four. I just use it for negs and do not worry about direct carryover...although there is a definite carryover, I cannot say exactly what it is.

Sorry I could not be more clear, I hvae learned to not worry about this correlatio. and just use it as a highly adjustable and effective gripping tool.

I personally think it is the best tool for negs out there.

Edited September 29, 2006 by pdoire

[Teemu I]

OK, The ISG ratings are "inner" and "outer" so the poundage ratings we see are dependent on hand position. The rating most often quoted is the "inner" because it is higher, even if the gripster is not putting his hand on the inner portion of the handle. Comparing is very tough because of that. I find that the 10,12 rating is harder than closing a three, that may be due to the spread. I do not know about yours but my ISG's spread is almost exactly a CCS set. As far as when I have used it at a 401 pound rating and such (inner) it is not as hard as the number four. I just use it for negs and do not worry about direct carryover...although there is a definite carryover, I cannot say exactly what it is.

Sorry I could not be more clear, I hvae learned to not worry about this correlatio. and just use it as a highly adjustable and effective gripping tool.

I personally think it is the best tool for negs out there.

Thanks Paul, not unclear at all, good information.

IGDA's spread is excactly a CCS set.

I guess I shouldn't try to figure out the correlation, I just thought about it so that I could determine how much I should be doing with it for negatives. Well I'll find that out by trying different settings of course.

[acorn]

With the ISGDA using the stainless springs I felt like it was pretty close for me. The last time I tested with both it and a TSG I was about 1/8" away from CCS my BBSM which I measured to be between 230 and 240. I got to about the same 1/8 away from closing on the ISGDA with it set around 235. I was able to close at 230 and if I used the chokers and went to parallel set I could close at #3 levels which is what I was closing TSG on a MMS. With the ISGDA there is no more inner and outer also. Just outer I think.

- Aaron

[Teemu I]

With the ISGDA using the stainless springs I felt like it was pretty close for me. The last time I tested with both it and a TSG I was about 1/8" away from CCS my BBSM which I measured to be between 230 and 240. I got to about the same 1/8 away from closing on the ISGDA with it set around 235. I was able to close at 230 and if I used the chokers and went to parallel set I could close at #3 levels which is what I was closing TSG on a MMS. With the ISGDA there is no more inner and outer also. Just outer I think.

- Aaron

I did some relatively light reps today, I had it at 203 pounds and I also think it's pretty close to CoC #2.

[pdoire]

With the ISGDA using the stainless springs I felt like it was pretty close for me. The last time I tested with both it and a TSG I was about 1/8" away from CCS my BBSM which I measured to be between 230 and 240. I got to about the same 1/8 away from closing on the ISGDA with it set around 235. I was able to close at 230 and if I used the chokers and went to parallel set I could close at #3 levels which is what I was closing TSG on a MMS. With the ISGDA there is no more inner and outer also. Just outer I think.

- Aaron

Then the poundage settings are all outer and much less than the "inner" that most people quote.

[bunchofbananas]

I read through the thread a few times but couldn't see if anyone mentioned what number settings is close to the number two.

If hands are placed right at bottom of the handles like this http://www.ivanko.com/products/prd_img/SUPER_GRIPPER.jpg

then what approximate setting is equivalent to a number two?

[bunchofbananas]

Does anyone ANY ivanko settings which correspond to any grippers?

[acorn]

Does anyone ANY ivanko settings which correspond to any grippers?

If your doing 2 springs, it would be

#T = 1, 7 or 101 lbs

#1 = 1, 9 or 140 lbs

#2 = 6, 9 or 197 lbs

#3 = 8, 11 or 278 lbs

I hope that helps. I made a spreadsheet for all the settings from 100lbs up to close to 400lbs for 3 springs a while back. Let me know if you have any interest in that.

- Aaron

[bunchofbananas]

Thanks v. much for the reply.

I do indeed have a very high interest in this spreadsheet, i was considering typing them all up onto my PC myself from the table they give you.

Are yours in order of increasing resistance?

Also i was wondering if the settings you posted actually corresponded accurately to the resistance of these grippers as i see they are all nearly dead-on the actual ironmind quoted poundages and thought this was either coincidence that pda and IM calibrated them in the saem way or that maybe you based the settings off the IM quotes themselves

Thanks again for the speedy reply.

[Teemu I]

I think along the lines of acorn, poundage ratings seem to me like they are pretty close to IM TSG's, at least with IGDA that is. Might be different with regular ISG depending where you place your hand.

Edited October 9, 2006 by Teemu I

[acorn]

Thanks v. much for the reply.

I do indeed have a very high interest in this spreadsheet, i was considering typing them all up onto my PC myself from the table they give you.

Are yours in order of increasing resistance?

Also i was wondering if the settings you posted actually corresponded accurately to the resistance of these grippers as i see they are all nearly dead-on the actual ironmind quoted poundages and thought this was either coincidence that pda and IM calibrated them in the saem way or that maybe you based the settings off the IM quotes themselves

Thanks again for the speedy reply.

Yes mine is in order of increasing resistance. Those settings are for the inner on the ISG or are fine for the ISGDA. I only have the DA and they seem to be pretty close with it to the corresponding calculated rating on the IM or other grippers. I picked the settings closest to the listed ones for the IM grippers btw. There are many more settings in between those w/ 2 springs and exponentially more with 3 springs. PM me with your email addr so I can send the spreadsheet.

- Aaron

[dunebuggy31]

i just recieved the IGDA today. it's got a real sweet feel to it. seeing it in person, it makes sense that it's a good neg tool. so in terms of hand placement, what do you guys think is the most effective way to do negs on this thing?

-rj