wulfgeat Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I have been working on these a while. . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHrOZE00Ogs 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Pizzo Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Nice job man! I'm not familiar with this particular movement but a 500 lb lockout generated by the upper body in any position is a very respectable achievement! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Cabrera Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgeat Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Nice job man! I'm not familiar with this particular movement but a 500 lb lockout generated by the upper body in any position is a very respectable achievement! Thanks man!!! It's really more like a decline press if you want to be technical, but I get the advantage of the added tension that comes with having to hold the bridge position. Wow! Yep. I didn't just wake up this morning and do that. Took me more than a year (mostly because I would lay off for like two months). I appreciate you taking a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Cabrera Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Thats freakin heavy dude! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Very nice. I was working on something similar, SCT training. Because I didn't have a spotter I had to push off the pins. I feel like this dead start lift is probably more realistic to everyday strength than a bench press. 500# this style is very strong! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ Livesey Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) what is this supposed to work? seems like its more trouble than what its worth, but im lazy and hate re-racking weights. Its strong for sure, but i dont get it Ninja edit: looks dangerous and potential for injury is high Edited September 24, 2014 by EJ Livesey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshW Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Nice job buddy. Never seen this lift before 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king crusher Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 what is this supposed to work? seems like its more trouble than what its worth, but im lazy and hate re-racking weights. Its strong for sure, but i dont get it Ninja edit: looks dangerous and potential for injury is high I hVe to agree. Risk vs reward seems high. It's like a decline bench pin press but only the lock out. Like a 2" rom lift? What do you get out of this lift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgeat Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 what is this supposed to work? seems like its more trouble than what its worth, but im lazy and hate re-racking weights. Its strong for sure, but i dont get it Ninja edit: looks dangerous and potential for injury is high what is this supposed to work? seems like its more trouble than what its worth, but im lazy and hate re-racking weights. Its strong for sure, but i dont get it Ninja edit: looks dangerous and potential for injury is high I hVe to agree. Risk vs reward seems high. It's like a decline bench pin press but only the lock out. Like a 2" rom lift? What do you get out of this lift? I just started doing it because I thought it might build the connective tissue strength to bend wrenches over my leg. My connective tissue in my chest, elbows, and wrists (the lower arms always take the biggest beating) is definitely stronger in pressing motions and it has made my horseshoe bending better, but I still can't bend any wrenches. As far as the risk goes, my low back is completely straight, and the force goes straight into the floor from my arms (meaning I feel absolutely no pressure on my back this style). I was however doing a reverse grip version, and for that I actually had to arch my back more, which also flexed my neck more. The last time I did that, I got dizzy in a way that reminded me of the slim the hammer man dvd where slim discusses the consequences he faces for bending bars over the bridge of his nose. So I decided for the reverse grip version, I would change up to a bench at 15 degree incline. I actually feel more strain on my back on the bench than I do on this floor version. . . So the take away is that I have much stronger connective tissue in my wrist, elbows, and scapular protractors from this. That's good enough for me. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ Livesey Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 So how do you know your connective tissue is stronger? What can you bend now that you couldn't bend before this lift? I'm a firm believer there is no exercise that can replicate replicate bending. The only way to get good at shoes and wrenches is to bend them in volume. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivarboneless Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I think the answer to the question of why is similar to "because it's there." It feels good to lift heavy weight. I've never seen anyone on the gripboard give any grief to someone doing heavy rack pull lockouts. After watching the video, there doesn't seem to be anything incredibly dangerous about this lift. I'm not sure the carry over to bending will be that remarkable, but I can respect lifting heavy weight for the sake of lifting heavy weight. Nice lift. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgeat Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 So how do you know your connective tissue is stronger? What can you bend now that you couldn't bend before this lift? I'm a firm believer there is no exercise that can replicate replicate bending. The only way to get good at shoes and wrenches is to bend them in volume. To answer your point, I agree with you: No one will get better at bending unless they bend. That being said, I feel that this lift has indirectly made my abillity to crush horseshoes slightly better. I say that because at the time I was bending a SCF lite #3 and the crush was a son-of-a-(bad word filter). After doing this for a while, I came back to it, and it was much easier to bend. That being said, I have only bent four of those shoes so it certainly could have been a natural learning curve. I mention that so that you know that I have considered other possibilities for my increased crushing ability, but I don't feel that the massive improvement I experienced on the crush came solely from bending one of those shoes on each side. When I say I know my connective tissue is stronger, it is because I actually wear it out while I am doing this. I actually have to take fish oil a-lot because of the amount of micro-damage this does to my elbows and wrists. You don't have to take my word for it though, set up a bench, put a bar no more than three inches from lockout, and try to make it to holding 400 lbs off the pins for 5 seconds or so and see if you don't notice an improvement in your lower arm connective tissue strength (as it relates to pressing). Also, I actually felt the origin of my serratus change over the course of doing this lift (I used to have an extreme strength deficiency in my left one which I can feel is no longer present). I understand that every bit of evidence I just offered is empirical, and can't be substantiated. But I'm not too worried about it, if you don't think it works for the purpose I am doing it, you don't have to do it. My point is: you won't know if it has indirect carry-over unless you try it. But you are 100 % right to point out that any carry-over to bending would definately be indirect. It is not my intention to encourage anyone to do anything dangerous or to make anyone believe that you can get good at bending without bending--I think you are aware that I have personally spent some time actually bending (though I don't feel that I have made any notable accomplishments in that area). My intention is to ask myself questions, explore those questions, and talk about where that has led me. Currently, I cannot bend a wrench, but I did just quarter a brand new deck of maverick cards on sunday for the first time ever. You can check my facebook to see that one: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/photo.php?fbid=583236681780483&set=a.103043756466447.3368.100002824691189&type=1&theater¬if_t=like I genuinely don't believe that this exercise had anything to do with me quartering that deck. What I feel made the difference was the indirect transfer from some very specific radial deviation training. I mention this because I felt like your last question started from the assumption that I was wrong and asked the question: what is wrong with him for thinking that. That's Miller's law in the reverse, and demonstrates a fundamental breakdown in communication (you are no longer listening). Miller's Law: In order to understand what a person is saying, you must assume that it is true and try to imagine what it might be true of (George Miller, in Hall, 1980). I do appologize however, if you feel like I am being an idiot, but I am not quite ready to put this lift down (and it is worth the risk to me to explore it further). For the record, I don't know that this lift would benefit anyone else in any way, I just do it because I don't like the pressure a bench puts on my back. I also appologize if it came across that I was arguing that someone could do this exercise to get better at bending (without bending). I don't believe you can get better at something without doing it (specificity principle) but I do believe that you can increase your potential to be good at it by increasing your overall strength. So I do believe that auxillary exercises have a place because they can increase your strength (more strength=greater potential), but to use a more obvious example, this lift doesn't necessarily make me better at bench pressing. There is definately some indirect transfer, but in order to get better at bench pressing, I have to bench press (again, specificity principle). I think the answer to the question of why is similar to "because it's there." It feels good to lift heavy weight. I've never seen anyone on the gripboard give any grief to someone doing heavy rack pull lockouts. After watching the video, there doesn't seem to be anything incredibly dangerous about this lift. I'm not sure the carry over to bending will be that remarkable, but I can respect lifting heavy weight for the sake of lifting heavy weight. Nice lift. Thanks man! To be honest, I don't think this is going to transfer to bending short bars over the leg (14 inch) but I do feel like this might make Mid-long bars easier when I do finally have the time and money to pursue that. But just maybe, I will be completely wrong. . . I'm okay with that though; I enjoy pursuing things for the sake of the pursuit. This is all a pastime for me, and I just like to share with people for the sake of letting everyone know that I'm still in the trenches. I appreciate your pointing out that sometimes, the reward in doing something is the reward of doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANCRUSHER Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 One thing i learned after getting injured and after westside style training[with many partial,deadstop stuff etc]is that nothing beats old school with perfect form. Sorry man but probably youll get 10 times bigger and stronger in the upper body doing weighted dips and squats 3 times x week with any given reasonable progression plan. Again not hate just and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANCRUSHER Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think the answer to the question of why is similar to "because it's there." It feels good to lift heavy weight. I've never seen anyone on the gripboard give any grief to someone doing heavy rack pull lockouts. After watching the video, there doesn't seem to be anything incredibly dangerous about this lift. I'm not sure the carry over to bending will be that remarkable, but I can respect lifting heavy weight for the sake of lifting heavy weight. Nice lift. I never saw someone posting a rack pull with a 2 inches room but that is also not only useless but dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgeat Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 One thing i learned after getting injured and after westside style training[with many partial,deadstop stuff etc]is that nothing beats old school with perfect form. Sorry man but probably youll get 10 times bigger and stronger in the upper body doing weighted dips and squats 3 times x week with any given reasonable progression plan. Again not hate just and advice. I am sorry to hear that you were injured; that definately sucks. I would agree with you on all of that advice, and I appreciate your willingness to share it. Unfortunately, I have a phlegmatic personality which means I have a lackadaisical approach to everything, so I wouldn't be able to follow your recomendation with any consistency. My brother however, trains exactly like that except with bench, deadlifts military press, and squat days. He is enormously powerful for someone under 200 lbs. So you can safely assume that I have seen that style of training in action, and am well aware of how effective it is I unfortunately, just have the wrong personality to make that happen. I started doing this lift in the hopes of gaining the strength to start bending wrenches over my leg. I learned this isn't going to transfer to that, because there is an incredibly different kind of torque on the elbows for something shorter than 14 inches than there is in this wide grip on the barbell. The real reason I picked this up again was I decided to get good at one-hand deadlifting farmer's handles, and I want to make sure that my serratus is strong enough to conteract the increasing strength of my back muscles (shoulder injuries are not fun at all). I think the answer to the question of why is similar to "because it's there." It feels good to lift heavy weight. I've never seen anyone on the gripboard give any grief to someone doing heavy rack pull lockouts. After watching the video, there doesn't seem to be anything incredibly dangerous about this lift. I'm not sure the carry over to bending will be that remarkable, but I can respect lifting heavy weight for the sake of lifting heavy weight. Nice lift. I never saw someone posting a rack pull with a 2 inches room but that is also not only useless but dangerous. A hand-and-thigh lift is exactly like a two inch rack pull, but it is a super old-school lift. I don't think there is anything inherently dangerous about a hand-and-thigh lift (though its usefulness is probably debatable) for someone who has conditioned themselves to do that lift (again, specificity principle), but you certainly don't have to agree. I think USAWA still judges that lift if you would like to see people who are "wasting their time and risking their lives" doing the equivalent of 2-inch rack pulls. I like watching people try to lift a ton; it always keeps me on the edge of my seat Sometimes it makes me wonder if there might have been something to the myth of Hercules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I think the answer to the question of why is similar to "because it's there." It feels good to lift heavy weight. I've never seen anyone on the gripboard give any grief to someone doing heavy rack pull lockouts. After watching the video, there doesn't seem to be anything incredibly dangerous about this lift. I'm not sure the carry over to bending will be that remarkable, but I can respect lifting heavy weight for the sake of lifting heavy weight. Nice lift. I never saw someone posting a rack pull with a 2 inches room but that is also not only useless but dangerous. I practice these and believe that useless is relative. Is there direct carryover to my deadlift? Not really but my stability is ridiculous in the stand up position and have wrestled guys that weigh 50lbs more than me and they could not throw me, nor out power me. Can you say hip drive? A huge part of strength is the ability to create massive pressure in the lower torso. Not to mention that the connective tissue toughening set the foundation for high intensity, volume, and frequency later and not feeling overly beat up about it. There is a reason the five board press exists and there is a reason that squatters practice walking out ridiculous weights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ Livesey Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 So how do you know your connective tissue is stronger? What can you bend now that you couldn't bend before this lift? I'm a firm believer there is no exercise that can replicate replicate bending. The only way to get good at shoes and wrenches is to bend them in volume. To answer your point, I agree with you: No one will get better at bending unless they bend. That being said, I feel that this lift has indirectly made my abillity to crush horseshoes slightly better. I say that because at the time I was bending a SCF lite #3 and the crush was a son-of-a-(bad word filter). After doing this for a while, I came back to it, and it was much easier to bend. That being said, I have only bent four of those shoes so it certainly could have been a natural learning curve. I mention that so that you know that I have considered other possibilities for my increased crushing ability, but I don't feel that the massive improvement I experienced on the crush came solely from bending one of those shoes on each side. When I say I know my connective tissue is stronger, it is because I actually wear it out while I am doing this. I actually have to take fish oil a-lot because of the amount of micro-damage this does to my elbows and wrists. You don't have to take my word for it though, set up a bench, put a bar no more than three inches from lockout, and try to make it to holding 400 lbs off the pins for 5 seconds or so and see if you don't notice an improvement in your lower arm connective tissue strength (as it relates to pressing). Also, I actually felt the origin of my serratus change over the course of doing this lift (I used to have an extreme strength deficiency in my left one which I can feel is no longer present). I understand that every bit of evidence I just offered is empirical, and can't be substantiated. But I'm not too worried about it, if you don't think it works for the purpose I am doing it, you don't have to do it. My point is: you won't know if it has indirect carry-over unless you try it. But you are 100 % right to point out that any carry-over to bending would definately be indirect. It is not my intention to encourage anyone to do anything dangerous or to make anyone believe that you can get good at bending without bending--I think you are aware that I have personally spent some time actually bending (though I don't feel that I have made any notable accomplishments in that area). My intention is to ask myself questions, explore those questions, and talk about where that has led me. Currently, I cannot bend a wrench, but I did just quarter a brand new deck of maverick cards on sunday for the first time ever. You can check my facebook to see that one: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/photo.php?fbid=583236681780483&set=a.103043756466447.3368.100002824691189&type=1&theater¬if_t=like I genuinely don't believe that this exercise had anything to do with me quartering that deck. What I feel made the difference was the indirect transfer from some very specific radial deviation training. I mention this because I felt like your last question started from the assumption that I was wrong and asked the question: what is wrong with him for thinking that. That's Miller's law in the reverse, and demonstrates a fundamental breakdown in communication (you are no longer listening). Miller's Law: In order to understand what a person is saying, you must assume that it is true and try to imagine what it might be true of (George Miller, in Hall, 1980). I do appologize however, if you feel like I am being an idiot, but I am not quite ready to put this lift down (and it is worth the risk to me to explore it further). For the record, I don't know that this lift would benefit anyone else in any way, I just do it because I don't like the pressure a bench puts on my back. I also appologize if it came across that I was arguing that someone could do this exercise to get better at bending (without bending). I don't believe you can get better at something without doing it (specificity principle) but I do believe that you can increase your potential to be good at it by increasing your overall strength. So I do believe that auxillary exercises have a place because they can increase your strength (more strength=greater potential), but to use a more obvious example, this lift doesn't necessarily make me better at bench pressing. There is definately some indirect transfer, but in order to get better at bench pressing, I have to bench press (again, specificity principle). this is very impressive with how educated you are. you do your homework and do-dilligence. i read everything you typed twice and read the article. im still not sure this lift is for me, basically because im lazy and hate putting weights back. but if this is working for you, do it and dont stop. there is no black and white cookie-cutter regiment for benders or grip guys. its trial and error. im excited to see your progression. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 What wrenches are you trying to bend? You seem to have plenty of strength if you have the right wrenches. Wrenches vary all over the place from bend OK to won't bend period but just snap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jörg Keilbach Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Bud Jeffries does a lot of partial training. He is a performing old time strongman. He has both incredible strength and endurance. He did a DVD together with Jedd about scrolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgeat Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 What wrenches are you trying to bend? You seem to have plenty of strength if you have the right wrenches. Wrenches vary all over the place from bend OK to won't bend period but just snap. I have six inch wrenches I bought from target which say "heavy duty 150 mm" and I have 8 inch wrenches I bought from walmart which say "heavy duty 200 mm." I have really thick thighs from all the lifting I do, so I can't seem to get them one my thigh with enough room to press with my hands, I also haven't been able to kink them over my knee (which is my preferred kink method). I haven't tried just starting them between the legs like Dennis Rodgers does, but I suck at hearting horseshoes so I am not sure that is going to work. I feel like if I get better at double underhand I might be able to move the six inch just a little though. . . That being said, I know absolutely nothing about which wrenches I should bend and how; they still feel like a shot in the dark to me. Bud Jeffries does a lot of partial training. He is a performing old time strongman. He has both incredible strength and endurance. He did a DVD together with Jedd about scrolling. I really want to buy that DVD too!!! Just waiting until I have some extra money lying around. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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