Hand Size & Gripper Ceiling Potential

[AllMight_]

Whats going on y'all. I've been curious about the impact of hand size on the ability to close heavy grippers #3. There seems to be a lot of discussion around leverage and grip width, but I'm interested in hearing from those with firsthand experience.

1. For those with smaller hands, have you found certain strategies or exercises that help you overcome any limitations posed by your hand size?
2. How much do you think hand size truly impacts your ceiling for gripper strength? Have you seen people with smaller hands achieve high gripper strength through other means?
3. Do you have any tips or advice for someone looking to maximize their potential with hand grippers, regardless of hand size?

I'm very aware that a smaller hand means less leverage, so I mainly want to see what results smaller-hand folk are obtaining.

[Climber028]

If you can set and close a light gripper, then your hand is big enough for a heavy one, the issue is strength. Hand size is a factor for a credit card set, as some people have hands so small they can't do that on any gripper even a light one. But anyone can deep set a very heavy gripper it's up to you how much you value you it and whether you know how to train correctly. I don't think everyone can close a #4, but every health adult male could close a #3 if they wanted to

[AllMight_]

Thanks for sharing. Yes, I'm just very interested in learning as much as I can now that I have fallen into the new challenge of closing a COC #3. Hopefully, CCS will come one day.

[WorksinaPinch]

I like @AllMight_ 's question in relation to the credit card set. If a "smaller" hand is defined as less than 7 1/2" is there any small handed men that have certified with Ironmind? If so, I too would like to know how they trained up the strength in the widest open position.

Certified with the credit card set rules...

 

Edited May 23 by WorksinaPinch

[AllMight_]

1 minute ago, WorksinaPinch said:

I like @AllMight_ 's question in relation to the credit card set. If a "smaller" hand is defined as less than 7 1/2" is there any small handed men that have certified with Ironmind? If so, I too would like to know how they trained up the strength in the widest open position.

I'm around 7 1/4", so this definitely intrigues me as well.

However, more than closing a CCS #3, I'm more interested in qualifying for the new Mash Monster when it returns. 

[dubyagrip]

Train holding and trying to close the credit card set width without your little finger on the handle.  After closing with three fingers for a short distance, add the little finger and you'll have more leverage with it than if you started with all four fingers on.  If you can make those three fingers stronger for the set, swipe, and initial squeeze, CCS shouldn't be an issue.

I hope that makes sense.

[AllMight_]

3 minutes ago, dubyagrip said:

Train holding and trying to close the credit card set width without your little finger on the handle.  After closing with three fingers for a short distance, add the little finger and you'll have more leverage with it than if you started with all four fingers on.  If you can make those three fingers stronger for the set, swipe, and initial squeeze, CCS shouldn't be an issue.

I hope that makes sense.

Yes, that does make sense.

I just began implementing two-finger deadlifts (index and middle) and three-finger deadlifts (index, middle, ring) into my Deadlift days as I'm warming up to my top sets to build stronger fingers. This may also indirectly help with what you have suggested for the CCS training.

[AllMight_]

Update: I have been incorporating two and three-finger deadlifts and rack pulls on my warmups for bench days. Also, have been training wider sets to aid in my training. Finally closed a #2 pretty easily with a Credit Card Set

[C8Myotome]

I have 7.25" hands and am 3 certified and have ccs'd 175 GHP8 and 173 coc 3.5, and 183 3.5 mms. 3.5 cert coming soon. There is no limit. Train harder

Edited May 29 by C8Myotome

[Vinnie]

On 5/23/2024 at 12:54 PM, Climber028 said:

every health adult male could close a #3 if they wanted to

To answer the OP's question first: I think my hands are 7.5", and I weigh in the 170s at 5'6" tall. I certified on the 3 in 2021 at age 52, after training pretty regularly for several years.

As for Mike's comment above and Derek's comment about no limits, well maybe and sorta.  I think there are some physical limits to what a given body can do, so while your training and commitment can maximize your body's result, you still cannot surpass its potential.  I'm not sure you (Derek) give yourself (and folks like me) enough credit when you say basically hey, if I can close a 3, anyone can.  There really are healthy adult males -- strong ones -- who have tried and failed to do just that.

In my opinion, you have a lot of natural talent for grippers, you are training phenomenally well with what you have, and your resulting accomplishments are elite.  I think that it will be very rare for anyone as small as you to get as far as you have with grippers -- I mean, your MMS closes in the 180s, if you were to replicate them in competition, would already set the 83kg weight class world record, and probably would be in or near the top 25 at any weight.  I still predict that no one who weighs under 200 pounds or has under 8 inch hands will EVER cert the COC 4, or GHP block set a gripper rated over 250, like Carl did. 

However, if I am ever proven wrong about that, I would expect it would be by you.

In any event, I think I am mostly agreeing with you in principle, I am just not sure I would bet on average Joe for the 3.  The 2, yes.  2.5 we could discuss.  3, not too sure.

Anyway, I enjoy watching your progress.  And for the record, I hope you get over 83kg, or I get under 74kg, before we attend the same comp!

 

 

Edited May 29 by Vinnie

[AllMight_]

1 hour ago, C8Myotome said:

I have 7.25" hands and am 3 certified and have ccs'd 175 GHP8 and 173 coc 3.5, and 183 3.5 mms. 3.5 cert coming soon. There is no limit. Train harder

Hell, yeah! This is the kind of response. I was looking for very motivating for someone who wants to work towards the coc#3 CERT.

[AllMight_]

13 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

To answer the OP's question first: I think my hands are 7.5", and I weigh in the 170s at 5'6" tall. I certified on the 3 in 2021 at age 52, after training pretty regularly for several years.

As for Derek's comment about anyone can do it, well maybe.  I think there are some physical limits to what a given body can do, so while your training and commitment can maximize your body's result, you still cannot surpass its potential.  I'm not sure you (Derek) give yourself (and folks like me) enough credit when you say basically hey, if I can close a 3, anyone can.  There really are healthy adult males -- strong ones -- who have tried and failed to do just that.

In my opinion, you have a lot of natural talent for grippers, you are training phenomenally well with what you have, and your resulting accomplishments are elite.  I think that it will be very rare for anyone as small as you to get as far as you have with grippers -- I mean, your MMS closes in the 180s, if you were to replicate them in competition, would already set the 83kg weight class world record, and probably would be in or near the top 25 at any weight.  I still predict that no one who weighs under 200 pounds or has under 8 inch hands will EVER cert the COC 4, or GHP block set a gripper rated over 250, like Carl did. 

However, if I am ever proven wrong about that, I would expect it would be by you.

In any event, I think I am mostly agreeing with you in principle, I am just not sure I would bet on average Joe for the 3.  The 2, yes.  2.5 we could discuss.  3, not too sure.

Anyway, I enjoy watching your progress.  And for the record, I hope you get over 83kg, or I get under 74kg, before we attend the same comp!

 

 

[C8Myotome]

2 hours ago, Vinnie said:

To answer the OP's question first: I think my hands are 7.5", and I weigh in the 170s at 5'6" tall. I certified on the 3 in 2021 at age 52, after training pretty regularly for several years.

As for Mike's comment above and Derek's comment about no limits, well maybe and sorta.  I think there are some physical limits to what a given body can do, so while your training and commitment can maximize your body's result, you still cannot surpass its potential.  I'm not sure you (Derek) give yourself (and folks like me) enough credit when you say basically hey, if I can close a 3, anyone can.  There really are healthy adult males -- strong ones -- who have tried and failed to do just that.

In my opinion, you have a lot of natural talent for grippers, you are training phenomenally well with what you have, and your resulting accomplishments are elite.  I think that it will be very rare for anyone as small as you to get as far as you have with grippers -- I mean, your MMS closes in the 180s, if you were to replicate them in competition, would already set the 83kg weight class world record, and probably would be in or near the top 25 at any weight.  I still predict that no one who weighs under 200 pounds or has under 8 inch hands will EVER cert the COC 4, or GHP block set a gripper rated over 250, like Carl did. 

However, if I am ever proven wrong about that, I would expect it would be by you.

In any event, I think I am mostly agreeing with you in principle, I am just not sure I would bet on average Joe for the 3.  The 2, yes.  2.5 we could discuss.  3, not too sure.

Anyway, I enjoy watching your progress.  And for the record, I hope you get over 83kg, or I get under 74kg, before we attend the same comp!

 

 

I don't think 3's are that hard to close, society itself just does not really pride itself in being strong so of course for the average person they will consider it difficult and/or an unattainable goal. Average male grip strength has actually been trending downwards for several decades now, basically men are becoming weaker. I have even proposed theoretically in my writeup on here that any able-bodied man could close a 3.5, no not if you picked them up off the street in as-is condition, but if they made several sequential lifestyle decisions that prepared them for that. I'm just saying the DNA is there, you don't need to be a god to be closing 3's or 3.5's. But your knowledge, decision making process, lifestyle, training determination etc and so many other factors contribute towards whether or not you currently can or potentially could do stuff like that. I've taught myself how to do so many different things in my life that every day people consider difficult, and I certainly couldn't do everything on the first try, but I also use failure as a learning process and don't give up easily after not getting instant gratification.

I don't know much about grip competitions but in 2 months my life will be a lot more free than it is right now, and I would be open to doing something like that. I'm not sure where any are or which ones I'd have to go to. The only thing I'm considering myself competitive in at the moment is grippers, I'm not training for feats or to one rep max on anything else. I would be interested in learning how far I would have to travel to do that, or what the time committment would be. Additionally, I know the owner of the biggest powerlifting gym in my area who had hosted a million PL meets and I'm sure I could talk him into hosting a grip meet there, I just have no idea how to set that up. But that would be very close to me.

I'm also a (fat) 189 lbs right now and am just recently starting on trying to lean out a bit. I already know I have MM180 in the bag, and am already working towards MM190. 

 

2 hours ago, Vinnie said:

I'm not sure you (Derek) give yourself (and folks like me) enough credit when you say basically hey, if I can close a 3, anyone can. 

I firmly believe everyone underestimates themselves, myself included. To not underestimate yourself is to accept a proposed limitation that may not be actually there. 

2 hours ago, Vinnie said:

There really are healthy adult males -- strong ones -- who have tried and failed to do just that.

Ok so this is where I majorly disagree. So strong healthy adult males have tried to close a 3, and couldn't. So that's a done deal? That's the end of the story? They tried for 5 minutes, and accepted they are incapable of closing a 3? Did they try for 8 months? 3 years? Are they still trying? If they aren't, they gave up. If they're still training, the opportunity is present. People give up at everything, WAY too easily. Why tell yourself what your definitive limit is when you haven't lived long enough to actually know? Additionally, most people will never know how to manifest their actual true potential. People can go to the gym and work out and close grippers with minimal understanding of anything much behind the basic physical movements to do those things, yet there are so many other ways to maximize performance and results of those things, that you would probably. never know unless you had spent years of your life improving your own knowledge across several different facets of life to be able to increase your ROI of your training time.

I am fully confident if I had an able bodied dude following my direction for 24/7 for basically years I could get them doing all the same stuff I'm doing right now if now more. Yes an average person can become a 3, 3.5 or possibly even a 4 closer. However I don't want to babysit another human like that nor does anyone want me to babysit them and follow everything that I tell them to do. There is a lot more to getting and being a strong person than dO tHiS mAnY sEtS aNd rEpS

I don't know grip people in my area, you're probably the closest location wise Vinnie, and I've only ever trained with 1 other person/gripboard member before, but I also don't want my strength claims to be something that only exists on the internet so at some point I actually want reputable people to see me doing this stuff IRL so it's not just me training at home and posting videos. And I would be very interested in setting a gripper world record.

At this rate and after losing a few more pounds I will probably be the lightest person to ever certify on the 3.5 when I do. Ivan did at 185 lbs 6', I am 5'8". I made a google spreadsheet of peoples weights who certed 3.5, a few numbers I couldn't find, but even most guys certing on the 3 are like 6'5 250-350 lbs. I am definitly an outlier.

Whether you say you can, or you can't, either way, you're right.

Edited May 29 by C8Myotome

[AllMight_]

1 hour ago, C8Myotome said:

I firmly believe everyone underestimates themselves, myself included. To not underestimate yourself is to accept a proposed limitation that may not be actually there. 

Love this comment brother. The human body is certainly capable of extraordinary feats when the appropriate mind set is set in place. 
 

by chance do you have a link to the spreadsheet of coc #3 & 3.5 cert closes? 

[C8Myotome]

8 minutes ago, AllMight_ said:

Love this comment brother. The human body is certainly capable of extraordinary feats when the appropriate mind set is set in place. 
 

by chance do you have a link to the spreadsheet of coc #3 & 3.5 cert closes? 

I only have data on the 3.5 it's a personal file so I will just screenshot. I also haven't yet added the guy who is in spot 22 as I made this a while ago

 

 

[C8Myotome]

On 5/23/2024 at 1:35 PM, WorksinaPinch said:

I like @AllMight_ 's question in relation to the credit card set. If a "smaller" hand is defined as less than 7 1/2" is there any small handed men that have certified with Ironmind? If so, I too would like to know how they trained up the strength in the widest open position.

Certified with the credit card set rules...

 

Dm me

[AllMight_]

9 minutes ago, C8Myotome said:

I only have data on the 3.5 it's a personal file so I will just screenshot. I also haven't yet added the guy who is in spot 22 as I made this a while ago

 

 

And this is credit card data correct? 
 

Nice to see some sub 6’ guys on this 3.5 list. I’m 5’10” and 195 lbs, ~7.25”

I will say that I do agree that with proper training most men will get to a 3, just not sure about the type of set with a 3. But then looking at this chart and from some of the other threads I’ve gone down maybe it is possible. 

[AllMight_]

10 minutes ago, C8Myotome said:

Dm me

Can I take you up on this as well? 

[C8Myotome]

4 minutes ago, AllMight_ said:

Can I take you up on this as well? 

Yes. 7.25" hands certified coc 3 with ccs rules in 2023. Cert article here: https://ironmind.com/news/Derek-Palmeri-Certifies-on-the-Captains-of-Crush-No.-3-Gripper/

[C8Myotome]

I found the gripsport record page and according to that, the 180 coc 3.5 38 mm close I did a while back would have been a 93 kg world record if done at a competition. That was some time within the past year and I have been below 93 kg the entire time, here's my weight fluctuation from the past year, I've been updating it more recently hence the more recent zig zags where earlier in the year are just larger trend lines. So kind of cool.

[AllMight_]

Yes, very cool! Thank you for continuing to add to this convo.

[TrenGrip]

I have exactly 7in hands and ive been able to clsoe an rgc 185 and CCS a 163rgc Cobalt, and TNS a 151 #3 and i dont think im near my limit on grippers. Im 6'2 so my hands are definitely small for my size. 

[AllMight_]

8 hours ago, TrenGrip said:

I have exactly 7in hands and ive been able to clsoe an rgc 185 and CCS a 163rgc Cobalt, and TNS a 151 #3 and i dont think im near my limit on grippers. Im 6'2 so my hands are definitely small for my size. 

Wow my friend! Those are good numbers! 

[steeve tremblay]

15 hours ago, TrenGrip said:

J'ai exactement 7 en mains et j'ai pu fermer un rgc 185 et un CCS un 163rgc Cobalt et un TNS un 151 #3 et je ne pense pas être proche de ma limite en matière de pinces. Je mesure 6'2 donc mes mains sont définitivement petites pour ma taille. 

it's really rare 188cm and 7 inch hands but I believe that your hands must be thick and wide to rebalance this immense strength in you

[steeve tremblay]

On 29/05/2024 at 15:11, Vinnie said:

Pour répondre d'abord à la question du PO : je pense que mes mains mesurent 7,5", et je pèse dans les années 170 et mesure 5'6". J'ai certifié sur le 3 en 2021 à 52 ans, après m'être entraîné assez régulièrement pendant plusieurs années.

Quant au commentaire de Mike ci-dessus et au commentaire de Derek sur l'absence de limites, eh bien peut-être et en quelque sorte. Je pense qu'il y a certaines limites physiques à ce qu'un corps donné peut faire, donc même si votre entraînement et votre engagement peuvent maximiser les résultats de votre corps, vous ne pouvez toujours pas dépasser son potentiel. Je ne suis pas sûr que vous (Derek) vous accordiez (ainsi qu'aux gens comme moi) suffisamment de crédit lorsque vous dites en gros, hé, si je peux fermer un 3, n'importe qui le peut. Il y a vraiment des hommes adultes en bonne santé – des hommes forts – qui ont essayé et échoué.

À mon avis, vous avez beaucoup de talent naturel pour les préhenseurs, vous vous entraînez incroyablement bien avec ce que vous avez et vos réalisations qui en résultent sont d'élite. Je pense qu'il sera très rare pour quelqu'un d'aussi petit que vous d'aller aussi loin avec des pinces -- je veux dire, votre MMS ferme dans les années 180, si vous deviez les reproduire en compétition, vous fixeriez déjà le poids de 83 kg. record du monde de classe, et serait probablement dans ou près du top 25, quel que soit le poids. Je prédis toujours que personne pesant moins de 200 livres ou ayant des mains de moins de 8 pouces ne certifiera JAMAIS le COC 4, ou le bloc GHP défini une pince évaluée à plus de 250, comme Carl l'a fait. 

Cependant, si jamais j’avais tort à ce sujet, j’imagine que ce serait de votre faute.

Quoi qu'il en soit, je pense que je suis plutôt d'accord avec vous sur le principe, je ne suis juste pas sûr de parier en moyenne sur Joe pour le 3. Le 2, oui. 2.5, nous pourrions en discuter. 3, pas trop sûr.

Quoi qu'il en soit, j'aime suivre vos progrès. Et pour mémoire, j'espère que vous dépasserez les 83 kg, ou que je pèserai moins de 74 kg, avant d'assister à la même compétition !

 

 

I agree with vinni we must not generalize it is not all the mode which can close the 3 because it is like saying all people can bench 315 or run 7.5 km etc there are multiple factors. .it's my opinion . I agree with Dereck however that grip strength or strength in general has decreased a lot over the last 2 decades