BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! WOMEN'S CRUSHED TO DUST!! MULTIPLE WOMEN!!!

[Hubgeezer]

From today's Iron Mind News:

https://ironmind.com/news/Amy-Wattles-and-Tammy-McClure-Kick-off-the-Womens-Crushed-To-Dust-Challenge/

 

Congratulations to Amy and Tammy.

[degradated]

Congrats Amy and Tammy! Amy has been a dominant force in the grip community for quite some time.

Am I the only person that feels that the requirements for all three events (for Women) is a little bit on the easier side, however?

I don't mean any disrespect and don't want to take anything away from their amazing accomplishments, just wanted to share my thoughts.

Men CTD:

1. Close a Captains of Crush No. 2 gripper
2. Lift 20 kg/45 lb. on an IronMind Hub
3. Lift 90 kg/200 lb. on an IronMind Rolling Thunder

Women CTD:

 

1. Close a Captains of Crush Point Five gripper
2. Lift 13 kg/28 lb. on an IronMind Hub
3. Lift 53 kg/117 lb. on an IronMind Rolling Thunder

[Hubgeezer]

8 hours ago, degradated said:

Congrats Amy and Tammy! Amy has been a dominant force in the grip community for quite some time.

Am I the only person that feels that the requirements for all three events (for Women) is a little bit on the easier side, however?

I don't mean any disrespect and don't want to take anything away from their amazing accomplishments, just wanted to share my thoughts.

Men CTD:

 

1. Close a Captains of Crush No. 2 gripper
2. Lift 20 kg/45 lb. on an IronMind Hub
3. Lift 90 kg/200 lb. on an IronMind Rolling Thunder

Women CTD:

 

1. Close a Captains of Crush Point Five gripper
2. Lift 13 kg/28 lb. on an IronMind Hub
3. Lift 53 kg/117 lb. on an IronMind Rolling Thunder

I don’t. I think, like the Men’s, the Rolling Thunder in particular is a more respectable lift than the other two. I think a “1” would be too much for a general Cert like this one. On the Hub…not sure about Women and that gadget. My thoughts…

[Fist of Fury]

On 5/3/2024 at 1:30 PM, degradated said:

Congrats Amy and Tammy! Amy has been a dominant force in the grip community for quite some time.

Am I the only person that feels that the requirements for all three events (for Women) is a little bit on the easier side, however?

I don't mean any disrespect and don't want to take anything away from their amazing accomplishments, just wanted to share my thoughts.

Men CTD:

 

1. Close a Captains of Crush No. 2 gripper
2. Lift 20 kg/45 lb. on an IronMind Hub
3. Lift 90 kg/200 lb. on an IronMind Rolling Thunder

Women CTD:

 

1. Close a Captains of Crush Point Five gripper
2. Lift 13 kg/28 lb. on an IronMind Hub
3. Lift 53 kg/117 lb. on an IronMind Rolling Thunder

Yes it's for sure easier. 60 kg would be a better weight to use.

 

[Hubgeezer]

4 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

Yes it's for sure easier. 60 kg would be a better weight to use.

 

I strongly disagree. 
 

Alexey holds the World Record for the Men’s Rolling Thunder with 130.5 Kgs.

The Men’s Crushed To Dust requirement for the RT is 90 Kgs, which is 68.97% of the World’s Record. 
 

Ludmilla holds the World Record for the Women’s Rolling Thunder with 77.2 Kgs.

The Women’s Crushed To Dust requirement for the RT is 53 Kgs, which is 68.65% of the World’s Record.

1. The biggest criticism or complaint that has been used on this forum is that the RT mark (for the Men’s) is too high compared to the other lifts. It appears that the Women’s standard is virtually identical to the Men’s for the Rolling Thunder.

2. If the Women’s standard was raised to 60 Kgs (132 lbs and change), the standard for the CTD for Women would be 77.92% of the World’s Record, compared to 68.65% of the Men’s. As it is, the RT Men’s standard was heavily criticized for being disproportionately too high compared to the other two 

I don’t believe that the Standards should be MORE difficult for Women than for Men. The Women’s Standards are similar. Achieving the Rolling Thunder level of strength will be the most difficult of the three feats for Women, just as it is for Men.

And, for Tammy to hit the RT level at her bodyweight is very impressive.

 

 

 

[Fist of Fury]

1 hour ago, Hubgeezer said:

I strongly disagree. 
 

Alexey holds the World Record for the Men’s Rolling Thunder with 130.5 Kgs.

The Men’s Crushed To Dust requirement for the RT is 90 Kgs, which is 68.97% of the World’s Record. 
 

Ludmilla holds the World Record for the Women’s Rolling Thunder with 77.2 Kgs.

The Women’s Crushed To Dust requirement for the RT is 53 Kgs, which is 68.65% of the World’s Record.

1. The biggest criticism or complaint that has been used on this forum is that the RT mark (for the Men’s) is too high compared to the other lifts. It appears that the Women’s standard is virtually identical to the Men’s for the Rolling Thunder.

2. If the Women’s standard was raised to 60 Kgs (132 lbs and change), the standard for the CTD for Women would be 77.92% of the World’s Record, compared to 68.65% of the Men’s. As it is, the RT Men’s standard was heavily criticized for being disproportionately too high compared to the other two 

I don’t believe that the Standards should be MORE difficult for Women than for Men. The Women’s Standards are similar. Achieving the Rolling Thunder level of strength will be the most difficult of the three feats for Women, just as it is for Men.

And, for Tammy to hit the RT level at her bodyweight is very impressive.

 

 

 

It doesn't work doing math like that my friend. Strength doesn't increase like that.

Also, it's completely irrelevant to base this of what the WR is at. 

Edited May 5 by Fist of Fury

[Hubgeezer]

Strongly disagree on both counts. I am talking about women’s strength versus men’s strength. The first time I personally held a Rolling Thunder contest with women was 2002. I had been following the Rolling Thunder for years before that.

i doubt there are many 60kg/132 lbs Lady RT Pullers that our members know. Unless this thread motivates more to participate in the sport.

 

[DoctorOfCrush]

3 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

Also, it's completely irrelevant to base this of what the WR is at.

Why?

[Fist of Fury]

10 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

Strongly disagree on both counts. I am talking about women’s strength versus men’s strength. The first time I personally held a Rolling Thunder contest with women was 2002. I had been following the Rolling Thunder for years before that.

i doubt there are many 60kg/132 lbs Lady RT Pullers that our members know. Unless this thread motivates more to participate in the sport.

 

No there isn't many and that's the point. Also there's very few women who competes in sport. I base my opinions of what I have seen in competitions. Women who are indeed strong, like armwrestlers for example is usually around this level. It's not supposed to be easy. If it was they need to lower the weight for the men to around 80 kg I would say.

[Fist of Fury]

10 hours ago, DoctorOfCrush said:

Why?

You don't base a strength standard after the WR. Do I really need to explain why? I mean it's pretty easy to understand why you wouldn't do that.

A WR is just as it says, a world record. It would be like saying it's bad to run 100 m in 10 seconds since Bolt was much faster.

Edited May 6 by Fist of Fury

[povmaciulis ARMLIFTING]

Im jealous of women requirements

I would already certify if I was woman but its okay CTD is a challenge of strength and I will feel proud when i do it one day.

[Hubgeezer]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:01 AM, Fist of Fury said:

 

A WR is just as it says, a world record. It would be like saying it's bad to run 100 m in 10 seconds since Bolt was much faster.

Huh?

[DoctorOfCrush]

On 5/6/2024 at 3:01 AM, Fist of Fury said:

A WR is just as it says, a world record. It would be like saying it's bad to run 100 m in 10 seconds since Bolt was much faster

No one was saying that these lifts are ‘bad’ or even making an argument about judging the lifts in isolation. The argument was about whether the men’s and women’s requirements were comparable in difficulty. Using the percent of WR as a metric for comparison seems like a logical approach to me. 

Edited May 7 by DoctorOfCrush

[Allen Heineck]

I think a 35# hub lift makes more sense than 28#.  Only because it's a plate weight that actually exists, and is an attainable lift for women.

[povmaciulis ARMLIFTING]

12 minutes ago, Allen Heineck said:

I think a 35# hub lift makes more sense than 28#.  Only because it's a plate weight that actually exists, and is an attainable lift for women.

Its not only plate weight? Its total weight.

[Hubgeezer]

Rolling Thunder, Standards, Women’s versus Mien’s.

Let’s talk Empirical Statistics from contests.

Okay. The best place to obtain a decent recent sample size is the 2023 King Kong International Contest.

Rolling Thunder is not contested in the King Kong, but the 2.25” Crusher is. Let’s say those two events are equal. That hypothesis is based on two assumptions: 1) World Record Holder in the 2.25” Crusher Carl Myerscough knows what he is talking about when he offers his opinion on the Rolling Thunder versus the 2.25” Crusher, and 2) You will have to believe me that he told me, one on one, October 24, 2020 in Newbury Park, California,  the day he set the World Record,  that the Rolling Thunder was more difficult than the 2.25” Crusher.

So, for these purposes, let’s say they are equal.

Of the 181 men who completed a lift, how many hit the IronMind standard for the Rolling Thunder, 90 Kgs? 44, which represents 24.3% of the contestants.

Of the 40 women who completed a lift, how many hit the IronMind standard for the CTD for the Rolling Thunder, 53 Kgs? Nine, which represents 22.5% of the contestants.

If the Rolling Thunder standard for women in the Crushed to Dust Cert was set at 60 kgs, as offered by one member here as “a better weight to use”, how many of those 40 women would have hit that standard? Three, which represents 7.5% of the contestants.

What do I get out of all of these numbers?

For the Rolling Thunder required standard for the Women’s Crushed to Dust achievement, IronMind/R Strossen came up with a respectable and reasonable standard.  
 

Congratulations to Amy and Tammy, the Pride of Idaho

 

[DAVE101]

13 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

Rolling Thunder, Standards, Women’s versus Mien’s.

Let’s talk Empirical Statistics from contests.

Okay. The best place to obtain a decent recent sample size is the 2023 King Kong International Contest.

Rolling Thunder is not contested in the King Kong, but the 2.25” Crusher is. Let’s say those two events are equal. That hypothesis is based on two assumptions: 1) World Record Holder in the 2.25” Crusher Carl Myerscough knows what he is talking about when he offers his opinion on the Rolling Thunder versus the 2.25” Crusher, and 2) You will have to believe me that he told me, one on one, October 24, 2020 in Newbury Park, California,  the day he set the World Record,  that the Rolling Thunder was more difficult than the 2.25” Crusher.

So, for these purposes, let’s say they are equal.

Of the 181 men who completed a lift, how many hit the IronMind standard for the Rolling Thunder, 90 Kgs? 44, which represents 24.3% of the contestants.

Of the 40 women who completed a lift, how many hit the IronMind standard for the CTD for the Rolling Thunder, 53 Kgs? Nine, which represents 22.5% of the contestants.

If the Rolling Thunder standard for women in the Crushed to Dust Cert was set at 60 kgs, as offered by one member here as “a better weight to use”, how many of those 40 women would have hit that standard? Three, which represents 7.5% of the contestants.

What do I get out of all of these numbers?

For the Rolling Thunder required standard for the Women’s Crushed to Dust achievement, IronMind/R Strossen came up with a respectable and reasonable standard.  
 

Congratulations to Amy and Tammy, the Pride of Idaho

 

This is a pretty good method of analysis. The problem with using the world record is, by definition, you're using an outlier. And it can also be confounded with stuff like bad judging.

I was also thinking about 2.25" crusher, but using the top 100 list on Grip Sport International. Good comparison.

[Hubgeezer]

12 hours ago, DAVE101 said:

This is a pretty good method of analysis. The problem with using the world record is, by definition, you're using an outlier. And it can also be confounded with stuff like bad judging.

I was also thinking about 2.25" crusher, but using the top 100 list on Grip Sport International. Good comparison.

I had not looked at the Gripsport list in a few years, as it has been a while since I was in a contest.
There was a full 100 women on it. 100th place was 35.61 Kgs., which is not bad.

93 out of 100 were from King Kong contests, and it has been contested four straight years, 2020-2023, the 2.25” Crusher. The IM standard of 53 Kgs was attained by the top 19 women.

To get to the discussed level of 60 Kgs…six women attained it.

For the men, 97 of 100 had 90 Kgs or more.

it looks to me that IronMind has the CTD standards for the RT right for men and women. I don’t think it has ever to be anything more than a respectable achievement. Not a World Class level one by any means.

Good catch on Gripsport’s list. The 2.25”  Crusher, which is in the 2024 contest, is the most consistent event of the contest. I hope it stays.

[povmaciulis ARMLIFTING]

2 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

I had not looked at the Gripsport list in a few years, as it has been a while since I was in a contest.
There was a full 100 women on it. 100th place was 35.61 Kgs., which is not bad.

93 out of 100 were from King Kong contests, and it has been contested four straight years, 2020-2023, the 2.25” Crusher. The IM standard of 53 Kgs was attained by the top 19 women.

To get to the discussed level of 60 Kgs…six women attained it.

For the men, 97 of 100 had 90 Kgs or more.

it looks to me that IronMind has the CTD standards for the RT right for men and women. I don’t think it has ever to be anything more than a respectable achievement. Not a World Class level one by any means.

Good catch on Gripsport’s list. The 2.25”  Crusher, which is in the 2024 contest, is the most consistent event of the contest. I hope it stays.

Idk 90 kg is not world class its universe class

[Hubgeezer]

From IronMind news last week:

 

https://ironmind.com/news/Lyudmila-Gaiduchenko-Certifies-on-the-Womens-Crushed-To-Dust-Challenge/

[Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

From IronMind news last week:

 

https://ironmind.com/news/Lyudmila-Gaiduchenko-Certifies-on-the-Womens-Crushed-To-Dust-Challenge/

Excellent work! She even upped the gripper requirement. Bravo! 

[Amy]

On 5/8/2024 at 5:15 AM, Hubgeezer said:

Rolling Thunder, Standards, Women’s versus Mien’s.

Let’s talk Empirical Statistics from contests.

Okay. The best place to obtain a decent recent sample size is the 2023 King Kong International Contest.

Rolling Thunder is not contested in the King Kong, but the 2.25” Crusher is. Let’s say those two events are equal. That hypothesis is based on two assumptions: 1) World Record Holder in the 2.25” Crusher Carl Myerscough knows what he is talking about when he offers his opinion on the Rolling Thunder versus the 2.25” Crusher, and 2) You will have to believe me that he told me, one on one, October 24, 2020 in Newbury Park, California,  the day he set the World Record,  that the Rolling Thunder was more difficult than the 2.25” Crusher.

So, for these purposes, let’s say they are equal.

Of the 181 men who completed a lift, how many hit the IronMind standard for the Rolling Thunder, 90 Kgs? 44, which represents 24.3% of the contestants.

Of the 40 women who completed a lift, how many hit the IronMind standard for the CTD for the Rolling Thunder, 53 Kgs? Nine, which represents 22.5% of the contestants.

If the Rolling Thunder standard for women in the Crushed to Dust Cert was set at 60 kgs, as offered by one member here as “a better weight to use”, how many of those 40 women would have hit that standard? Three, which represents 7.5% of the contestants.

What do I get out of all of these numbers?

For the Rolling Thunder required standard for the Women’s Crushed to Dust achievement, IronMind/R Strossen came up with a respectable and reasonable standard.  
 

Congratulations to Amy and Tammy, the Pride of Idaho

 

The bigger point that is being missed here is the Men's Crushed to Dust Challenge was unrolled what, approx 10 years ago? It's taken 10 YEARS for there to be enough women competing for this challenge to be opened up to women. And trust me when I say, many women (myself included), have reached out trying to make this happen before now. 28 women competing at The Arnold seemed to be the tipping point to move forward.

When I saw the numbers, I chuckled. Like ok, that's not even a warm up but here we goooo. This is a solid challenge and target for all women to shoot for and there are finally enough female competitors to make it a worthwhile effort for Ironmind to implement. It's a challenge, like many challenges posted on IG that may or may not make sense to me.

What I do know is Randall is a very smart guy and doesn't do things as a knee jerk reaction. My experience is before Randall makes a decision, he consults many people, does his research, knows his products, customers and then makes a decision.  I am not sure how he got there with these numbers, but he did and challenge is issued. And finally another door was opened for female competitors.

I will say that my last email ended with, "I am eagerly anticipating the Crushed to Dust Plus Challenge" for the women.  Maybe then I will weigh in on what is appropriate or my own opinion. For this, I am celebrating equal access. There are still a few more doors I am knocking on to make sure women have similar opportunities but I will save that for another day and thread.

And thanks Mike for highlighting this opportunity for the girlz! Always appreciate your insight on things!

 

[Amy]

12 minutes ago, Cannon said:

Excellent work! She even upped the gripper requirement. Bravo! 

haha Tammy and I went back and forth about this wondering if we even had the correct gripper. As a rule follower, my perspective was to stick to the challenge and rules as they were issued so our attempts were not rejected. Could we then load the implements as high as we wanted and call it a valid attempt? Same idea here....

Did not want to chance it and will wait for the Plus Certification.....

Edited May 17 by Amy

[Hubgeezer]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:15 AM, Hubgeezer said:

 

On 5/16/2024 at 6:21 PM, Amy said:

The bigger point that is being missed here is the Men's Crushed to Dust Challenge was unrolled what, approx 10 years ago? It's taken 10 YEARS for there to be enough women competing for this challenge to be opened up to women. 

When I saw the numbers, I chuckled. Like ok, that's not even a warm up but here we goooo. This is a solid challenge and target for all women to shoot for and there are finally enough female competitors to make it a worthwhile effort for Ironmind to implement. It's a challenge, like many challenges posted on IG that may or may not make sense to me.

 

I will say that my last email ended with, "I am eagerly anticipating the Crushed to Dust Plus Challenge" for the women.  Maybe then I will weigh in on what is appropriate or my own opinion. 

 

 

Crushed to Dust for men started 12 years ago.

it took 20 years between the first IM cert(1991 #3) for Men,and the first IM cert (2011 #2) for Women.

I suspect it will be a while before there is a Plus Challenge for Women. The key is to get more Women on the #2 Cert, the Crushed to Dust Cert, and the first #2.5  Cert. it needs to be part of the Strength Culture among Women to create more interest and excitement. King Kong  certainly helps. Talking about it to Women athletes certainly helps as well.

I am not talking about 5, 10,12,or 20 years. But if the lists stay exactly as they are, that is a bit disappointing. Maybe some new stars will emerge after the October King Kong? Or it gets promoted at the next King Kong?

Edited May 18 by Hubgeezer

[Hubgeezer]

You folks are probably getting tired of me posting on this thread, but here is yet another recent record, this one for Rolling Thunder pullup for Lyudmila:

https://ironmind.com/news/Lyudmila-Giaduchenko-Sets-Inaugural-World-Record-for-Maximum-Weight-Rolling-Thunder-Pull-up/

She is 57 years old. I had no idea.