MikeF. Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Hi All! My background is in hand balancing, and I was recently intrigued by the world of short steel bending. My grip strength and upper body strength in general isn’t bad, considering the years of hand balancing behind me, so I decided to jump in a couple months ago. I have a few questions about the types of steel I’m bending, and whether the progressions I’m working on make sense. I’m currently working up to my first cert, goal being the Loki bar from The Challenge Dude, which is equivalent to the IM Red Nail. I’m using Justin’s Level 1, 3/16x7” CRS as technique training (double overhand), Level 2, 1/4x7” CRS as warm ups, and Level 3, 1/4x7” SS as the workout. Level 4 is his Loki bar, 5/16x7” CRS. Outside of those progressions, is where I’m wondering where to work at. I can bend galvanized 60D’s consistently, and recently bent a Grade 2 SS, 1/4x6” bolt. My question is, are these bolts worth being a part of the supplemental training, outside of TCD’s steel stock and 60D nails? I’ve read in a few places actually that Grade 2’s aren’t worth pursuing, and it’s better to just stick with different types of 60D’s and stock. What’s interesting to me though is that the crush with the SS Grade 2 was quite a bit different than the galvanized 60D’s I’ve bent, so I’m wondering if it’s good to experiment with different types of steel, bolts and nails, to get an idea of how the steel reacts to the bend. Thank you for anyone’s thoughts on the subject, it’s been an addicting, fun ride so far in conquering some steel! Looking forward to hitting that Loki bar sometime! Kindly, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1/4 Grade 8 bolts are the usual progression up to the red nail. You can try 1/4 square CRS as well. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acromegaman Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 If you're wanting to simplify things to where they are laid out for you then you can just order a "Road to the Bastard" bag from FBBC. It has some bars that will help you progress. If you think you are close already then you can purchase some 1/4" x 6" grade 8 bolts and square previously mentioned above. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jack Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 (edited) I would just buy H,J, K, L, and N drill rod and be done with it. This way you can just cut all of your pieces to 7", which is the length of your goal piece. If you buy different strength bolts you are gonna have to move between 6" and 7" at times. If your goal is to currently bend a 7" piece, and you are new to bending, I would stick exclusively with 7" pieces until you reach that first goal and get many bends under your belt. I think this is easiest done with cutting your own drill rod in those increments denoted by the letters above. If you do not want to fool with cutting the pieces yourself, and want to help out FBBC, you can always do as Delmar said above and do the FBBC Road to "X" Bastard bag. Edited September 29, 2020 by Billy Jack 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zane Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Billy Jack said: I would just buy H,J, K, L, and N drill rod and be done with it. This way you can just cut all of your pieces to 7", which is the length of your goal piece. If you buy different strength bolts you are gonna have to move between 6" and 7" at times. If your goal is to currently bend a 7" piece, and you are new to bending, I would stick exclusively with 7" pieces until you reach that first goal and get many bends under your belt. I think this is easiest done with cutting your own drill rod in those increments denoted by the letters above. If you do not want to fool with cutting the pieces yourself, and want to help out FBBC, you can always do as Delmar said above and do the FBBC Road to "X" Bastard bag. Hey Billy, if I'm new to bending, would you suggest getting the FBBC beginners bag to get started? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jack Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Zane said: Hey Billy, if I'm new to bending, would you suggest getting the FBBC beginners bag to get started? It depends on what your goal is. If you just want to get stronger at bending, then I think the bender's bag is good. It has a mix of several lengths and diameters. If you have a specific goal or certification bar you are chasing, then I always recommend using only the same length bars in training when you are newer and don't have your technique down 100% every time. The difference in a 7" bar and a 6" bar can be somewhat big when it comes to technique as a new bender. It seemed to take me a bit to get used to going back and forth between lengths when I first started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zane Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 17 minutes ago, Billy Jack said: It depends on what your goal is. If you just want to get stronger at bending, then I think the bender's bag is good. It has a mix of several lengths and diameters. If you have a specific goal or certification bar you are chasing, then I always recommend using only the same length bars in training when you are newer and don't have your technique down 100% every time. The difference in a 7" bar and a 6" bar can be somewhat big when it comes to technique as a new bender. It seemed to take me a bit to get used to going back and forth between lengths when I first started. Thanks for the advice! I think I'll stick to 7" until I get some technique down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF. Posted September 30, 2020 Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Billy Jack said: I would just buy H,J, K, L, and N drill rod and be done with it. This way you can just cut all of your pieces to 7", which is the length of your goal piece. If you buy different strength bolts you are gonna have to move between 6" and 7" at times. If your goal is to currently bend a 7" piece, and you are new to bending, I would stick exclusively with 7" pieces until you reach that first goal and get many bends under your belt. I think this is easiest done with cutting your own drill rod in those increments denoted by the letters above. If you do not want to fool with cutting the pieces yourself, and want to help out FBBC, you can always do as Delmar said above and do the FBBC Road to "X" Bastard bag. Thanks Billy, that makes a lot of sense, training at a length exclusively for the bend I am pursuing. If I understand correctly, the basic Bastard is essentially the same as IM’s Red, and TCD’s Loki; 5/16x7” CRS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF. Posted September 30, 2020 Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 7 hours ago, acromegaman said: If you're wanting to simplify things to where they are laid out for you then you can just order a "Road to the Bastard" bag from FBBC. It has some bars that will help you progress. If you think you are close already then you can purchase some 1/4" x 6" grade 8 bolts and square previously mentioned above. Thanks a ton for this suggestion, I completely missed this on FBBC’s website. It sounds like this is a good way to go, training specifically for any type of bend I’d pursue in the future! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF. Posted September 30, 2020 Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 Thank you all for the suggestions in progressions! It’s helpful and appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jack Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 15 hours ago, MikeF. said: Thanks Billy, that makes a lot of sense, training at a length exclusively for the bend I am pursuing. If I understand correctly, the basic Bastard is essentially the same as IM’s Red, and TCD’s Loki; 5/16x7” CRS? Yes, regular bastard bar is same dimensions. Does not mean the same strength rating, however, as steel fluctuates because of many factors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF. Posted September 30, 2020 Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Billy Jack said: Yes, regular bastard bar is same dimensions. Does not mean the same strength rating, however, as steel fluctuates because of many factors. Gotcha! Thanks for the time, it’s appreciated, looking forward to feeling the differences in those bends when I get there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF. Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 I received the Road to the Bastard from FBBC last night, along with some blue nails from IM! I ran through all of my stock from TCD recently (with the exception of the Loki and Heimdall Bars of course), so this couldn’t come at a better time. I recently found the grip ratings website as well, and it looks like the steel from FBBC in this bag provides a much more subtle progression road to 5/16x7 bends. The drill rod seems especially subtle, I can see why it provides benders with a better way to progress in bending. I ordered the IM blue nails along with everything else, as I was getting tired of blowing through my 60D’s and having to get more, so I think I’ll be covered here for a while. The suggestions I received earlier really helped, thanks again guys. I’ll post some progressive bends here once to get to them. I recently bent my first Grade 5 bolt successfully, but I won’t go for the 1/4 square stock for a while, the Grade 5 took everything I had. Kindly, Mike 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF. Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) Hey All! I’ve kept busy over the last couple weeks, diving into the steel sent from FBBC! Current max bend is 1/4x7” Square stock, shown in the video below. According to Andrew’s ratings, these rate just a bit higher than a typical Grade 5 bolt. I’m inching my way closer to those Red Nail and Bastard bends. My bending workout in the mornings currently look like this: Shoulder and wrist warm up movements and mobility work. 1/4x7 round CRS for warm up bend, 17/64 drill rod, 1/4x7 hex CRS, 9/32x7 (x2) round CRS, IM Blue Nails (x3), and then a max bend, for me currently at 1/4x7 square CRS. I have the blue nails before the max so I don’t jump from relatively difficult bends (9/32 round) right to a max. Blue nails aren’t too difficult, but they help keep my shoulders warm without taking down my energy before the max bend. I’m happy with the progress made so far since beginning in August, when 60D nails felt completely impossible. I’ll stick with the square stock for now at max, and when I run through what I have, and if I feel confident, I’ll finally go for what 5/16x7 round I have available: Loki bar from the Challenge Dude, and Bastard from FBBC. Can’t wait! Thanks for reading, Mike Edited November 2, 2020 by MikeF. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zane Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 On 11/2/2020 at 7:27 AM, MikeF. said: My bending workout in the mornings currently look like this: Shoulder and wrist warm up movements and mobility work. 1/4x7 round CRS for warm up bend, 17/64 drill rod, 1/4x7 hex CRS, 9/32x7 (x2) round CRS, IM Blue Nails (x3), and then a max bend, for me currently at 1/4x7 square CRS. I have the blue nails before the max so I don’t jump from relatively difficult bends (9/32 round) right to a max. Blue nails aren’t too difficult, but they help keep my shoulders warm without taking down my energy before the max bend. This is awesome, Great info! I'm new to bending and trying to make figure all of this stuff out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF. Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Zane said: This is awesome, Great info! I'm new to bending and trying to make figure all of this stuff out. Thanks Zane! Yeah it’s a process for sure, figuring out how to train bending properly is important, especially when other physical training pursuits are in the mix. It’s been an interesting three months diving into the practice, and it’s been full of essentially figuring out what works for me and doesn’t work for me in terms of how much to train, where my capacity is in bending, and how it relates to my other practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF. Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 Hey everyone! I’ve been chugging away slowly to the 5/16x7 crs bend, still not there yet. In the photo, I have FBBC drill rod .2900 (L) and FBBC CRS 1/4x7 square. Theoretically, according to grip ratings and FBBC, the drill rod should be slightly less difficult than the CRS square, but on the contrary in my experience, the CRS is actually much more manageable; I can have a completed bend in under one minute with the square stock. If that stock is rated slightly higher than the drill rod, why did the drill rod kill me tonight? The photo shows how far I got before I gave up. What I believe is the case is that the mid range and crush range in the drill rod is just much more difficult than the square stock, even though square is rated slightly higher in difficulty. Every time I moved in to start the crush, I could feel the rod spring back on me strongly, whereas the CRS gave in with each hit. Is this the experience of others here? Thanks for everyone’s opinions, and I’ll keep working away to get that elite bend. Will stick with the square CRS for now! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acromegaman Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 The CRS may be harder to get to the rated strength @30 deg, but it falls easier after that. Drill rod is a more consistent bending material that feels the same throughout the bend which makes it feel harder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF. Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, acromegaman said: The CRS may be harder to get to the rated strength @30 deg, but it falls easier after that. Drill rod is a more consistent bending material that feels the same throughout the bend which makes it feel harder. Ah gotcha! So essentially, strength ratings are typically figured at 30 degrees, then depending on the steel, will either remain the same or decrease after a 30 degree bend. That makes more sense. I guess it makes sense to say also that drill rod is a great way to build strength in the mid ranges of the bend, and crush strength? Thanks for the help, it’ll help me approach drill rod a little more differently going forward! Edited November 13, 2020 by MikeF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zane Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 On 11/12/2020 at 7:20 PM, acromegaman said: The CRS may be harder to get to the rated strength @30 deg, but it falls easier after that. Drill rod is a more consistent bending material that feels the same throughout the bend which makes it feel harder. That's good to know. I was experiencing the same thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF. Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 Finally nailed my first .2900 drill rod bend under 2 inches, and what a battle! Kink wasn’t bad, as all the 1/4x7 square bends made that area of my bending stronger, but the sweep into the crush was unbelievably difficult, exposing a weakness in my training for sure! I’ll definitely work on these going forward to help build my mid range and crush strength, and stick to 1/4x7 square to finally nail a Grade 8 bolt in the near future! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jculpepper Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 On 11/12/2020 at 7:33 PM, MikeF. said: Hey everyone! I’ve been chugging away slowly to the 5/16x7 crs bend, still not there yet. In the photo, I have FBBC drill rod .2900 (L) and FBBC CRS 1/4x7 square. Theoretically, according to grip ratings and FBBC, the drill rod should be slightly less difficult than the CRS square, but on the contrary in my experience, the CRS is actually much more manageable; I can have a completed bend in under one minute with the square stock. If that stock is rated slightly higher than the drill rod, why did the drill rod kill me tonight? The photo shows how far I got before I gave up. What I believe is the case is that the mid range and crush range in the drill rod is just much more difficult than the square stock, even though square is rated slightly higher in difficulty. Every time I moved in to start the crush, I could feel the rod spring back on me strongly, whereas the CRS gave in with each hit. Is this the experience of others here? Thanks for everyone’s opinions, and I’ll keep working away to get that elite bend. Will stick with the square CRS for now! Mike Your not crazy. I'm in the same place. The 1/4" sqr takes me 20sec where I have yet to finish the L. The drill rod fights a lot harder during the sweep and crush but you will need that crush strength to get the Red. Keep up the good work! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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