Brian Shaw, Jujimufu and the hub lift

[climber511]

Just now, Alawadhi said:

Is that even possible? Wow! But the records were close to same. It is getting better but those amateurs were great!

It is well worth reading about this history.  It had much to do with state sponsored teams by the Soviet block etc who were considered "professionals" by virtue of training was their only "job" and how they made their living.  But there is a lot of history most today have never considered that looks a little like what we are talking about right now in Grip Sport.  "Allowing" (is this the right word) the Professional Strongmen to take part in NAGS competition is the same situation we saw back then.  I may look at this through a different lens because of having lived through this time in Olympic history.  Of course it ended up being impossible to keep the pros out at the Olympic level due to the political and monetary issues of the day but it does provide a perspective different than most of you may have ever considered.

[Alawadhi]

8 minutes ago, climber511 said:

It is well worth reading about this history.  It had much to do with state sponsored teams by the Soviet block etc who were considered "professionals" by virtue of training was their only "job" and how they made their living.  But there is a lot of history most today have never considered that looks a little like what we are talking about right now in Grip Sport.  "Allowing" (is this the right word) the Professional Strongmen to take part in NAGS competition is the same situation we saw back then.  I may look at this through a different lens because of having lived through this time in Olympic history.  Of course it ended up being impossible to keep the pros out at the Olympic level due to the political and monetary issues of the day but it does provide a perspective different than most of you may have ever considered.

So if we will eventually go down the Olympic path, why won't we learn from the past and avoid doing what they did then change? Prevention is better than fixing.

[climber511]

19 minutes ago, Alawadhi said:

So if we will eventually go down the Olympic path, why won't we learn from the past and avoid doing what they did then change? Prevention is better than fixing.

True - but the natural course of things is discussion - arguing - bickering - and fighting first.  Hard to cure human nature.  And honestly - looking at what the Olympics have become - is it the best we can do?  the Olympics have become all about the money these days - and I for one don't watch much or care much anymore.  It's more about human nature stories than the competition here in the US - don't know about the rest of the world.

Edited November 28, 2018 by climber511

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, climber511 said:

True - but the natural course of things is discussion - arguing - bickering - and fighting first.  Hard to cure human nature.  And honestly - looking at what the Olympics have become - is it the best we can do?

The Olympics IMO should never include professional athletes. Should have always remained the way you described, Chris.

[Mike Rinderle]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

The Olympics IMO should never include professional athletes. Should have always remained the way you described, Chris.

I remember this time well.  Western countries pushed for the inclusion of professional athletes because all the Eastern Block Countries were already using them, but paying them as government employees.  It essentially meant that we had college kids competing against pro athletes in the prime of their careers.  I agree that amatuer was better, but you have to understand why pros were eventually allowed in.

Because of this though, there will never be anything as awesome as the Miracle on Ice.  DO YOU BELIEVE IN MIRACLES! 

 

[Andrew P]

On 11/24/2018 at 8:34 PM, Tommy J. said:

Moving forward, can anyone please address the phenomenon i mentioned earlier in regards to NAGS not extending more of a hand to other orgs and recognizing the performances in those comps?

maybe the strongmen are fascinating to many of us because we know they are interested in grip? what my earlier posts tried to address was the fact that their seems to be a calculated effort to distance ourselves (NAGS), from the idea of competing with, or recognizing their (strongmens) grip performances when they do show interest..

at this point im suggesting that the limiting in growth is self induced.

can anyone adequately deny this?

 

the mantra i keep getting is- we think grip strength is only a real and genuine thing if the rest of our bodies are average af strength wise, but our hands are strong. ...and the guys with really strong bodies who do big things in grip dont really matter, and are a side show to the “true” 180lb grip guys who do nothing but grip.

there is no intelligent or reasonable way to justify that mindset.

Tommy,

When I was on the NAGS board that main reason I would not put scores in is because people would not sanction the contest before running it. I'm sorry but if they don't follow the organizations rules and pay the sanctioning fee it does not matter what they lift I'm not adding it to the records lists. You can't set a IPF power lifting record and have it count in the GPC, GPF, IPL ect.  

With FBBC I run the most loosy goosey records list in the world that I know of. The only requirement is that you use a FBBC Tool and show the weight. I don't even require a scale. But that's the exception, not the rule.  

[climber511]

33 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

I mean i hear you guys on the different org thing.. but you can begin to understand how frustratingly confusing this is for new competitors? Or maybe even new promoters? I don't think its this way now, but this will eventually end up like trying to interpret pl world records... this orgs “world record” is xyz, and the next orgs “world record” is xyz. Very confusing to figure out who is actually the strongest this way! I cant stand skimming through multiple pl records on multiple sites trying to figure out who actually has the heaviest squat, etc.

it almost makes a man not want to take ANY of them (the WRs) serious. And very hard to follow for not only new competitors to join in, but also investors trying to decide which athletes and orgs to sponsor. Until they spend a bunch of time trying to study what org is what. And taking time to figure out the differences in orgs. Rules, gear, equipment, etc. And all that does is add more variables for the question of where to begin, and what org to do it with. In fact, it may make a possible investor not even want to bother.

 

i have gone on monologues before chastising others for hiding behind the word “growth” in debates that actually had nothing to do with growth.. at least not in my opinion.

but i feel my sentiments thus far are mentioning things i think are directly responsible for growth, or lack thereof.

 

At some point, its gonna get very spiteful if mf’ers (promoters from different orgs) don't start coming together. It may even end up as pitiful as hosting big comps on same day like James Retarides mentioned happening in arm wrestling. if some asshole (Tommy J.) doesn't continue to call the divide to the carpet and get some kind of headway made for bringing everyone to agreement.

Getting people to "come together" means one org "wins and another loses" in their minds so it's not going to be easy to accomplish.  There is a certain amount of prestige in being the big dog in any organization that people are not going to want to give up easily.  And in any discussion - knowing the history of similar things can be a help - or should be.  At the moment I don't see any real effort for orgs to join in anything.  Discussion on an internet forum that only one of the parties even reads isn't going to solve it - one side or the other will need to directly approach the other with some kind of olive branch and open a discussion.

Edited November 28, 2018 by climber511

[KapMan]

You know. It could be that gripsport was never meant to be some gigantic org like strongman or bodybuilding. 

[honk]

13 minutes ago, KapMan said:

You know. It could be that gripsport was never meant to be some gigantic org like strongman or bodybuilding. 

I have to admit, I'm not very optimistic about grip making it bigtime. 

[honk]

Sure I would be more than glad, if grip grows substantially.

And I'm happy about the exposure grip is getting through juji.

 

 

I don't want grip to be small forever like some fans of obscure bands.

[climber511]

23 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

I can quite confidently disagree on this part.

Tommy - please read the rest of the sentence - don't take it out of context as the politicians say.

[climber511]

I stand by my statement - at some point the "leaders" of each are going to have to decide it is in their best interests to sit down and talk things out.  And aren't there more than two orgs world wide?  If we call something a "World" Record it should be just that.

Edited November 28, 2018 by climber511

[climber511]

43 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

 

i saw your message. However, 2 orgs parties are reading.

Its funny you mention politicians.. they have yet to post.

Actually if you are serving in an officer type (decision making) role role in either (any) Grip Sport organization - you are by default a politician. 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by climber511

[KapMan]

1 hour ago, Tommy J. said:

 

But yet you cant look away..

Not the point broham. 

[Rick Walker]

8 hours ago, Alawadhi said:

I agree. Strongmen will dominate the Axle records. A question, how many gripboard members here can deadlift conventional or sumo 500 pounds on a normal bar? Let alone an axle. Not many I bet. Yes yes  I know those people are the strongest on earth and they use "help" and so on. But they still dominate that part.

Unless you are a woman, an older athlete (over 60), have an injured back, or are extremely light (under 165 lbs), a 500 lbs deadlift should be a piece of cake on a normal bar. I know several guys in their 50s still toying with over 500 for reps and Richard Sorin is still lifting over 500 every year. I believe he is 67(?) now and still capable of pulling 500 (though with his string of injuries this may no longer be the case).

I said it earlier, and I will say it again. If a lack of deadlift strength (not grip strength) is holding you back on the axle deadlift, you need to get your priorities straight.

[Climber028]

Totally agreed, I'm a lightweight and still have no excuse,  the powerlifting deadlift record in my class is like 668lbs. 

[KapMan]

12 minutes ago, Rick Walker said:

Unless you are a woman, an older athlete (over 60), have an injured back, or are extremely light (under 165 lbs), a 500 lbs deadlift should be a piece of cake on a normal bar. I know several guys in their 50s still toying with over 500 for reps and Richard Sorin is still lifting over 500 every year. I believe he is 67(?) now and still capable of pulling 500 (though with his string of injuries this may no longer be the case).

I said it earlier, and I will say it again. If a lack of deadlift strength (not grip strength) is holding you back on the axle deadlift, you need to get your priorities straight.

Yay for them? 

Same could be said for nearly anything liftable based on your logic.

 

[Mike Rinderle]

 

14 minutes ago, Rick Walker said:

Unless you are a woman, an older athlete (over 60), have an injured back, or are extremely light (under 165 lbs), a 500 lbs deadlift should be a piece of cake on a normal bar. I know several guys in their 50s still toying with over 500 for reps and Richard Sorin is still lifting over 500 every year. I believe he is 67(?) now and still capable of pulling 500 (though with his string of injuries this may no longer be the case).

I said it earlier, and I will say it again. If a lack of deadlift strength (not grip strength) is holding you back on the axle deadlift, you need to get your priorities straight.

I've said this for a long time.

Injured back may not even be an excuse if you are crazy enough...

I pulled 600 after two back surgeries.  I started deadlifting because my pull wasn't as strong as my grip on an axle at my first grip comp.  Hell Rick pulled 700 with health issues that would keep most from lifting at all.

Age isn't much of a factor either.  I didn't start lifting until I was into my 40s.  Chris Rice pretty much kills the age excuse.  I doubt his deadlifting ability has ever been the limiting factor on the axle and Methuselah asks him for anti-aging tips.

Literally almost anyone, that does not have a very serious handicap, can get to a 400 lb deadlift.  Not many will ever get to a point on an axle where they need a stronger deadlift than that.  You don't need to pull 500 + to reach your potential on the axle unless you have some elite strength hands.  

So if your pulling strength is holding you back on the axle; put down the axle, grab an oly bar, and get stronger.  Or, if you only have an axle, use mixed grip or strap up for God's sake.  Quit bitching and get stronger.

 

[Eric Roussin]

GSI (formerly NAGS) aims to be an umbrella organization of the sport of grip.  We are hoping to unite as many promoters and organizations as possible to work together to bring more standardization to the sport, and establish a clear path leading to an annual World Championship that would move each year.

GSI has been reaching out to various promoters/organizations to see if they are interested in working together. Some are, some aren’t (yet). GSI has reached out to Armlifting USA, and for now, Armlifting USA has indicated that it prefers to continue doing its own thing. They are experiencing success, and are concerned about some of the differences between grip sport and armlifting. One thing that I think is promising is that we are starting to recognize similar contest formats. (Four 60-second trips to the platform with unlimited attempts on each trip.) So I’m hopeful that some of the other differences may eventually by ironed out.

To be honest, GSI has been slow to get going. We still don’t have a website, making it difficult to find sanctioning requirements, contact information, etc. The problem has historically been a lack of individuals who have sufficient interest, time, and skill to do the work that needs to be done. A lot of people like to share their opinions, but it’s more about “what should be done” rather than “what I will do”. 

One minor victory is that we’ve recently had a GSI logo professionally designed, which we will soon unveil. And while I, like others, have a lot on my plate, I’m going to take steps over the next month to get a website up and running. Perhaps once GSI can demonstrate a bit of progress, it will be in a better position to convince others to join.

[climber511]

1 hour ago, Mike Rinderle said:

 

I've said this for a long time.

Injured back may not even be an excuse if you are crazy enough...

I pulled 600 after two back surgeries.  I started deadlifting because my pull wasn't as strong as my grip on an axle at my first grip comp.  Hell Rick pulled 700 with health issues that would keep most from lifting at all.

Age isn't much of a factor either.  I didn't start lifting until I was into my 40s.  Chris Rice pretty much kills the age excuse.  I doubt his deadlifting ability has ever been the limiting factor on the axle and Methuselah asks him for anti-aging tips.

Literally almost anyone, that does not have a very serious handicap, can get to a 400 lb deadlift.  Not many will ever get to a point on an axle where they need a stronger deadlift than that.  You don't need to pull 500 + to reach your potential on the axle unless you have some elite strength hands.  

So if your pulling strength is holding you back on the axle; put down the axle, grab an oly bar, and get stronger.  Or, if you only have an axle, use mixed grip or strap up for God's sake.  Quit bitching and get stronger.

 

For most people who lift recreationally a double BW DL is all that's really needed - and with climbing being my primary sport I don't even "need" that.  And for me at 200# that gives me a double BW lift of 400# (which I can still do with difficulty).  And with my back history going any higher than that really serves no purpose.  My best competition Axle is 356# and training of 375#.  With a 400# reg DL that means my lift is slow and I have to hold on  to the bar longer than someone with a much stronger DL - I did it but I think I could have done a few more pounds if my DL was stronger.  But that wasn't worth the risk to me at my stage of the game.  It was about choices for me - I could spend the biggest part of my year climbing and then train grip for a few months or do it the other way around - which didn't fit my goals.  I started training for Gripmas this year on Oct 15 after my last climbing trip of the year that's not a lot of time before the comp.  

[Rick Walker]

5 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

 

I've said this for a long time.

Injured back may not even be an excuse if you are crazy enough...

I pulled 600 after two back surgeries.  I started deadlifting because my pull wasn't as strong as my grip on an axle at my first grip comp.  Hell Rick pulled 700 with health issues that would keep most from lifting at all.

Age isn't much of a factor either.  I didn't start lifting until I was into my 40s.  Chris Rice pretty much kills the age excuse.  I doubt his deadlifting ability has ever been the limiting factor on the axle and Methuselah asks him for anti-aging tips.

Literally almost anyone, that does not have a very serious handicap, can get to a 400 lb deadlift.  Not many will ever get to a point on an axle where they need a stronger deadlift than that.  You don't need to pull 500 + to reach your potential on the axle unless you have some elite strength hands.  

So if your pulling strength is holding you back on the axle; put down the axle, grab an oly bar, and get stronger.  Or, if you only have an axle, use mixed grip or strap up for God's sake.  Quit bitching and get stronger.

 

Exactly Mike. Some get it, others do not. 

You went through hell to get to 600, and you did it at a later stage then most start lifting! 

And your back surgeries were not just surgeries, you damn near died.

I have been pushing my volume on belt squats, Bulgarians, sumos, and conventional pulls. Hitting around 6-8 workouts a week. I pushed a little too far. I felt a tweak doing Bulgarians with 80 lb dbs and this morning, on sore legs, decided to do sumo, 565 for 5 sets of 6. On the third set, rep 2, I felt the muscle belly tear in my biceps femoris. Hurts like hell, but I now understand the whole age thing. Will active rest and get back to it next week. I want to see over 700 again in my 40s and I am in route for sure. Now if these injuries will stay away!

Keep givin' it hell Mike!

 

-Rick

[Saff]

5 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

 

Literally almost anyone, that does not have a very serious handicap, can get to a 400 lb deadlift.  Not many will ever get to a point on an axle where they need a stronger deadlift than that.  You don't need to pull 500 + to reach your potential on the axle unless you have some elite strength .

 

I agree. My max deadlift on a regular bar is 450lbs while my DOH axle deadlift is close to 400lbs. I never though it was a hindrance to my axle deadlift.  I don't much care if my regular deadlift ever gets any higher.

[Alawadhi]

12 hours ago, Rick Walker said:

Unless you are a woman, an older athlete (over 60), have an injured back, or are extremely light (under 165 lbs), a 500 lbs deadlift should be a piece of cake on a normal bar. I know several guys in their 50s still toying with over 500 for reps and Richard Sorin is still lifting over 500 every year. I believe he is 67(?) now and still capable of pulling 500 (though with his string of injuries this may no longer be the case).

I said it earlier, and I will say it again. If a lack of deadlift strength (not grip strength) is holding you back on the axle deadlift, you need to get your priorities straight.

Yes for power lifters. Hence me saying on the gripboard. Many of my powerlifter friends do reps with 300+ KG. Same people bench 200KG+ and squat 350KG+. But gripsters are different. Because here people train grip more than overall body. I highly doubt more than 20% of the board can do 500+ on  a deadlift for whatever reasons they have.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Huh?.. 

I think what Chris means by stating that they would be a politician is meaning  that they have to remain diplomatic in their dealings. I don’t think he means a shady politician as most are.

[climber511]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

I think what Chris means by stating that they would be a politician is meaning  that they have to remain diplomatic in their dealings. I don’t think he means a shady politician as most are.

Exactly!