Horseshoe Proggression

[gazza]

For the last 6 weeks weeks i have been concentrateing on thickbar and horseshoes altho i have tried and done a few horseshoes in the past but ive never really given it an honest effort with me its all or nothing no halfway measures so this time i decided lets give it an honest go for a period to see what i can achieve.

Ive always tried to think of ways to maximize my training especially isos useing myself as a test guinea pig to see what works and what doesnt i am not one to be blindly led i will take what a certain person has to offer and try it and see if i can make it adapt for me if i dont get results i will move on till i find something that works for me then i will use this and try and refine it to best suite my strengths and technique etc.

I have a mixture of horseshoes here all over the place and lots of different brands as well as new and used ones.

I dont have enough to make a good progression from one to the other because i dont have enough of each to cheat kink aload of each to varying degrees to perform isos on to get me to the next same shoe prekinked less.

So what i came up with is i have some stock left over from when i was bending and i started thinkink so i started thinking 5/16inch stock might be abit to much to start with so i went to a couple of metal places and bought some 6mms HRS and some 3/16 and 1/4inch round CRS and thought these would be good to start with.

I took an easy for me horseshoe and put it around the horn on my anvil and marked with a piece of chalk were it was on the horn and these was hardly any space around/between it and the horseshoe i then took some 6mms HRS and put it across the anvil horn a half inch up on the chalk mark and bent it around the anvil horn moving it a half inch up would allow it to sit in the middle of the shoe better i then took the shoe and put the piece of bent 6mms hrs around on the flat back of the shoe i used some rebar tie wire to fix it to the shoe in 4 places insulation tape will work as well as long as you cover most of the shoe and bar with it i cut of the surplus 6mms hrs over the ends of the shoe and i then wrapped the shoe and bar and bent it i then did the same with the 3/16inch and 1/4inch crs ive now worked upto some 5/16inch bar attached to the shoe.

since doing this i also had an idea about a better way to make some progression i have a son in law who is an apprentice welder and the firm he works for make silencers and use crs and stainless plate in various thicknesses i went to his place of work and they have a plasma cutter so i asked the boss if i could buy some off cuts he said yes i then took a shoe and drew around the outline of the shoe on 2mms thick crs sheet and had my son in law cut the shapes out with the plasma cutter so i now had some 2mms thick crs shaped horeshoes i then took these home and fileded the edges abit with a grinder and buffing disk and then took one and put it onto the back of the horseshoe i then took a drill and drilled holes through were they are on the shoe right through the plate and fixed them together via rebar wire i then bent the shoe and plate it feels great better than attaching round or flat bar but its time consumeing and costs a little more but you can get infinate progression.

I am getting some 1mms through to some 5mms sheet plasma cut into these shapes so i then have 1mms of progression once you graduate onto the next harder shoe you just apply the same principle and you get to keep on working with the shape of the shoe intact.

I thought some of you aspiring shoe benders eager to give pat a run for his money might find this helpfull.

[pawel r]

very interesting Gazza!!! thanks

PS. you can give some picture?

Edited February 25, 2008 by pawel r

[MalachiMcMullen]

I've done something similar but didn't think it out as much as you have It's a great idea Gary!!!

[gazza]

Zach

My problem is i dont have the cash to buy a shit load of st,croix or diamonds then pay shipping as well as i have a shit job and familly so that takes care of most of my dosh so i try and compensate and think of other ways to make my training harder but cheaper.

If youve done a similar think then im sorry for pinching your idea but great minds think alike as they say its also obviously working 4 you mate as you progress on the shoes is superb.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Zach

My problem is i dont have the cash to buy a shit load of st,croix or diamonds then pay shipping as well as i have a shit job and familly so that takes care of most of my dosh so i try and compensate and think of other ways to make my training harder but cheaper.

If youve done a similar think then im sorry for pinching your idea but great minds think alike as they say its also obviously working 4 you mate as you progress on the shoes is superb.

Thanks, your idea I suppose would be cheaper. What I did was put two Ultralite 2's back to back, tape them together and see how far I could take them before the tape had to come off. I can do two polo's that way, once they get past 90(sometimes before) they start to slide around on eachother and the tape either slips off one shoe or I just take it off and I finish the crushdown on them separatly Don't worry, you weren't stepping on any ideas of mine because since I didn't post them or write about them, they, for all intents and purposes, hadn't been known I wasn't going to let that one out yet

[Tim71]

Gazza,

Your generosity that you show by giving away your training secrets is extremely commendable. I'll always have a soft spot for the do-it-yourselfer.

That's what I've always enjoyed about this gripboard. I fully believe that the best training tips in the world are right here on this board; all for free.

Can't wait to see what you can do with the shoes. Heck, it seems the hardest part is finding some of these elusive shoes.

Let us know.

Tim

[gazza]

Gazza,

Your generosity that you show by giving away your training secrets is extremely commendable. I'll always have a soft spot for the do-it-yourselfer.Tim youve also helped countless people out freely with your advice and sending people stock includeing me

That's what I've always enjoyed about this gripboard. I fully believe that the best training tips in the world are right here on this board; all for free.would be nice tho if the gurus contributed something for free now and then.

Can't wait to see what you can do with the shoes. Heck, it seems the hardest part is finding some of these elusive shoes. Why do you think these gurus never come on here and give out there secrets or openly tell people what size shoes or wrenches they bend etc cause they no that a good few on here will be up for the challenge look how many have now done or are trying an insane or koab bars much easier to do a few shows here and there whos gonna jump out the audience and start taking measurements etc they shure would shit a brick if i turned up at one of there gigs and i jumped up and said i can do that but please cut a little off of it first to make it abit harder now theres a thought!

It does peeve me off to see those people hero worshiping people who contribute nada to this board

Hell im not liked by a lot on here but atleast i give freely and contribute which is something.

Just like the unbraced bending no man is a god records are meant to be broken and will its human nature look how many these last few mths have hit mag and grands and edgins and stainless the same will happen with the shoes once people specialise on them like pat has done for years then they too will be killing big ones i definately no i will be its on steel afterall and im a machine

Let us know.

Tim

[David Horne]

All records in all sports are there to be broken.

Some take a long time to be broken as well like Bob Beaman's long jump.

David

[gazza]

All records in all sports are there to be broken.

Some take a long time to be broken as well like Bob Beaman's long jump.

David

No bending record will last for 26yrs infact i will go on record and say that my braced bends and the top horseshoe bends will both be broken by the end of this decade only a couple of yrs away.

[gazza]

Zach

You could always get them spot welded together then tape them all round they should not slide around then.

Metal contact adhesive as well as the tape might be an option also.

[timiacobucci]

I dunno man, that seems like a hell of allot of work to make a stronger progression. I know what you mean about doing things cheaper, but this is only if you do this work all yourself I do this with cars allot. $1500 job for $200 in parts, but that is not counting all my time which is really what you are paying someone else for with the $1500.

Most people don't have the capacity to plasma cut things I don't think and hand cutting and grinding makes buying more shoes seems allot more plausable. I am only saying this because I did think about it because I only have a few shoes and wish I had a better progression myself. I was even wondering if there might be a way to crank a peice of flat stock trapped in a vise into a shoe shape so it will bend on the long side and not twist.

Another thing I didn't think of till now that might be easier if you do have some real hard shoes you can't do yet, is to mill off some of the thickness or ram it against a belt sander for a bit.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Zach

You could always get them spot welded together then tape them all round they should not slide around then.

Metal contact adhesive as well as the tape might be an option also.

I thought about that too but 2 problems with that. I have no welder and the spot welds would snap off. Metal adhesive is a good idea though...

I dunno man, that seems like a hell of allot of work to make a stronger progression. I know what you mean about doing things cheaper, but this is only if you do this work all yourself I do this with cars allot. $1500 job for $200 in parts, but that is not counting all my time which is really what you are paying someone else for with the $1500.

Most people don't have the capacity to plasma cut things I don't think and hand cutting and grinding makes buying more shoes seems allot more plausable. I am only saying this because I did think about it because I only have a few shoes and wish I had a better progression myself. I was even wondering if there might be a way to crank a peice of flat stock trapped in a vise into a shoe shape so it will bend on the long side and not twist.

Another thing I didn't think of till now that might be easier if you do have some real hard shoes you can't do yet, is to mill off some of the thickness or ram it against a belt sander for a bit.

Now Tim, that's cheating! Shoes don't seem that complicated to me. Like wrenches, you just have to bend them to get better at them I can't say I do any real "training" with shoes. I just try random stuff or big attempts from time to time and occasionally succeed. So what makes me different from everyone else? Technique, if you learn good technique your shoe bending will get better.

[climber511]

No clue what this would do but what about just welding a light - medium - or heavy bead the whole length of the shoe - the extra metal would be harder but I don't know what the heat from the welding process would do to it????

[acorn]

I dunno man, that seems like a hell of allot of work to make a stronger progression. I know what you mean about doing things cheaper, but this is only if you do this work all yourself I do this with cars allot. $1500 job for $200 in parts, but that is not counting all my time which is really what you are paying someone else for with the $1500.

Most people don't have the capacity to plasma cut things I don't think and hand cutting and grinding makes buying more shoes seems allot more plausable. I am only saying this because I did think about it because I only have a few shoes and wish I had a better progression myself. I was even wondering if there might be a way to crank a peice of flat stock trapped in a vise into a shoe shape so it will bend on the long side and not twist.

Another thing I didn't think of till now that might be easier if you do have some real hard shoes you can't do yet, is to mill off some of the thickness or ram it against a belt sander for a bit.

You could try that with some small square stock, I bet that would work.

- Aaron

[MalachiMcMullen]

No clue what this would do but what about just welding a light - medium - or heavy bead the whole length of the shoe - the extra metal would be harder but I don't know what the heat from the welding process would do to it????

Makes me wish we still had our welder so I could try that out The heat wouldn't be a big factor unless you bend the shoe while it's still hot(ouch!). You would also want to either oil cool or air cool the shoe, no water. I still think the weld is more likely to break than to bend though.

[gazza]

If you put a spot weld or small bead weld in say 4 -5 places dotted around the shoe done by a competent welder not a cowboy it will be fine the weld will be stronger than the shoe.Heating it via welding will not alter it as its already well hardened .

Tim

try ordering a box of horseshoes from the US and have em shipped to the UK not cheap so i look at other ways and i no not everyone has a plasma cutter neither do i its only that my son in law is an apprentise welder and his firm has some high tech welding gear as they make all types of silencers from tractors to ships ones alot in stainless so they have to have all the right gear.

Zach

I agree hone your technique then just get stronger its what worked for me on the short unbraced stuff altho i did have access to infinate ammounts of progression which i dont with the shoes i have.

Pipes are another way just useing a smaller pipe each time or moving your hand down the pipes as you get stronger but i like to feel the shoe in my hand.

[MalachiMcMullen]

If you put a spot weld or small bead weld in say 4 -5 places dotted around the shoe done by a competent welder not a cowboy it will be fine the weld will be stronger than the shoe.Heating it via welding will not alter it as its already well hardened .

Zach

I agree hone your technique then just get stronger its what worked for me on the short unbraced stuff altho i did have access to infinate ammounts of progression which i dont with the shoes i have.

Pipes are another way just useing a smaller pipe each time or moving your hand down the pipes as you get stronger but i like to feel the shoe in my hand.

In my experience though(I've torn apart enough welded-together parts at work to know) welds snap, crackle and pop. However, like you said Gazza, a good "roll o' pennies" weld does bend a good bit with the part itself so long as the weld is not holding anything together anymore.

Technique is key All one has to do is look at my Polo 1 and DC1 videos and compare them to my DC0 and #3 Lite videos to see the difference good technique makes. Strength is a big part of it, I think body and back strength are more important in shoe and braced bending than wrist strength. Wrist strength is still very important, just not as much as your body as a whole.

I like the pipe idea

[pawel r]

In my experience though(I've torn apart enough welded-together parts at work to know) welds snap, crackle and pop. However, like you said Gazza, a good "roll o' pennies" weld does bend a good bit with the part itself so long as the weld is not holding anything together anymore.

Technique is key All one has to do is look at my Polo 1 and DC1 videos and compare them to my DC0 and #3 Lite videos to see the difference good technique makes. Strength is a big part of it, I think body and back strength are more important in shoe and braced bending than wrist strength. Wrist strength is still very important, just not as much as your body as a whole.

I like the pipe idea

my opinion about strength in bending shoe: triceps, back, fingers and wrist..... but this is only my opinion

[oscar4883]

I am a certified welder and have a considerable amount of experience with hardend steel. If you were going to weld these shoes togethor the best technique is to pre-heat them and then stitch them in several spots like Gazza said to do. The heating relaxes the steel so that it is not shocked, so to speak, when the weld is introduced. This will ensure good ductility which is the reason why many welds fail. Hope this helps.