#4 Closers

[MalachiMcMullen]

Who all has closed the #4? I can't seem to remember, I'm pretty sure there were around 10-13 people who've closed one but these are all i can come up with for sure:

Nathan Holle-cert

John brookfield

Clay Edgin

Richard Sorin(it was a braced close so maybe this one wont count)

Joe Kinney-cert

Steve McGranahan

Dave Morton-cert

Tommy Heslep-cert

Josh Dale

Heath Sexton

Magnus Samuelsson-cert

I'm also pretty sure that one of the Gillinghams closed one yes?

[egg_uk]

thought heath said he didnt close it, not sure though

[nockowt1]

I'm guessing you're going to make Oldtime eat his words about loads of people closing the #4.

[vikingsrule92]

I thought Steve Gardener had done it too. Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure he's one it at least braced but I'm not sure otherwise.

Edited August 30, 2007 by vikingsrule92

[MalachiMcMullen]

I'm guessing you're going to make Oldtime eat his words about loads of people closing the #4.

Yes, he's a know it all. With that statement about the #4 he's demonstrated how little he knows about grip... so I'll show him his error and nothing more Mostly though I would really like to know who's closed one and Olditme's post made me think.

I thought Steve Gardener had done it too. Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure he's one it at least braced but I'm not sure otherwise.

I'm not sure either but last I heard he was very very close but no cigar. Much the same as Sam if I remember right.

Edited August 30, 2007 by MalachiMcMullen

[lifesnotfair]

I thought Steve Gardener had done it too. Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure he's one it at least braced but I'm not sure otherwise.

I'm not sure either but last I heard he was very very close but no cigar. Much the same as Sam if I remember right.

I think if Steve reads this he would jump in and say something. Sam might be close to the #4 but I think he uses super-deep sets. Steve is closer on the same gripper, but using a bigger set, so if you combine both things, he's way ahead I would say. No disrespect to Sam, he's very young and getting stronger in every workout he posts, so he might surpass him, but right NOW he's not as good as Steve, at least not with the spring held upwards, heh.

About the ones mentioned in the original post:

I think brookfield closed it but by bracing it with his pinky?? I recall reading something along those lines.

Heath did indeed close it from what I've read, in front of Strossen too, but the latter said he used a set too deep? Again I could be wrong.

I think Rob Vigeant Jr. "monkeypaws" has closed the #4, also David Erives "gorilla hands", with Clay witnessing, according to an old post I once found. Patrick Gansel "Mr. mysterious" (ok, I made that nickname up) also closed a #4 and showed video. Some of his videos were very impressive, like the grinding of an RB300 and a TNS of a #3 that happened in like a millionth of a second, and some hydraulic #3 closes and stuff.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Thanks LNF! I've heard of Rob V. and Gorilla Hands but I didn't know Vigeant had closed one and didn't know Gorilla Hands' name so thanks! So that brings the list up to 15.

Edited August 30, 2007 by MalachiMcMullen

[StalwartSentinel]

Hasn't Shane Larson closed it as well?

[showlarson]

Hasn't Shane Larson closed it as well?

nope...only in a choker

[Alawadhi]

Richard Sorin in his best gripper time he did the P4 which is another 4. So yes for Richard. I also think Mark Henry closed the #4.

[Teemu I]

I thought Steve Gardener had done it too. Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure he's one it at least braced but I'm not sure otherwise.

I'm not sure either but last I heard he was very very close but no cigar. Much the same as Sam if I remember right.

I think if Steve reads this he would jump in and say something. Sam might be close to the #4 but I think he uses super-deep sets. Steve is closer on the same gripper, but using a bigger set, so if you combine both things, he's way ahead I would say. No disrespect to Sam, he's very young and getting stronger in every workout he posts, so he might surpass him, but right NOW he's not as good as Steve, at least not with the spring held upwards, heh.

About the ones mentioned in the original post:

I think brookfield closed it but by bracing it with his pinky?? I recall reading something along those lines.

Heath did indeed close it from what I've read, in front of Strossen too, but the latter said he used a set too deep? Again I could be wrong.

I think Rob Vigeant Jr. "monkeypaws" has closed the #4, also David Erives "gorilla hands", with Clay witnessing, according to an old post I once found. Patrick Gansel "Mr. mysterious" (ok, I made that nickname up) also closed a #4 and showed video. Some of his videos were very impressive, like the grinding of an RB300 and a TNS of a #3 that happened in like a millionth of a second, and some hydraulic #3 closes and stuff.

LNF I think you are right about most of these things. One thing I haven't read about is Rob Vigeant Jr. closing the #4.

Also when it comes to the talks about anyone beeing "close to the #4", it depends on the particular #4 as well as what you think is "close". As with all grippers, there is a huge variation how difficult they actually are. Plus the legendary nature of the #4 seems to make people forget more often than with other grippers, how the difficulty of that particular feat varies depending on a lot of variables, like the afore mentioned variation in grippers, the setting style etc.. I would of course say that closing any #4 using a parallel set is a great feat. I respect anyone who has closed #4.

Here's an example of the gripper variation and it's effect in practice. I personally have now closed two different #3.5's on video, the other one easier, another on harder. I just recently borrowed a hardest #3.5 calibrated here in Finland, which is 6,5 kg or 14,25 lbs harder on the Redneck Gripper Calibrator (replica) than the harder of the two #3.5's I've closed. So far my best attempts on that hard #3.5 have been about 5mm's or 1/4" from beeing closed. That, is not not even close and it might take me plenty of time to get that gripper closed. It's rating on the CoC-scale is 3,68.

Now, according to the calibration results Greg and Dave got, the easiest #4 they calibrated was 3,67 on the CoC-scale, pretty much similar as the hard #3.5 I referred to, and it's 19 lbs easier than what is considered an average #4 of 209 lbs. That is even greater difference than the difference between the hardest #3.5 I've closed and the one that I, at best, have managed to get to the 1/4" of beeing closed. So, it' a long way from closing even an easiest #4 you could get your hands on to beeing able to close an average #4. Now, if I wanted to cut some corners on my way to my long term goal of closing a #4, I could search a #4 that is as easy as that hard #3.5, work my way up to it, which shouldn't take that long in my mind, take the close on video and get kudos without much reservation from most on this board it seems. Well, I would not do it, because I would not feel good about it and not see myself as a #4 closer. My actual long term goal is to close my #4, which is slightly below but awfully close to the average #4, it calibrated to be 3,96 on the CoC-scale. In my mind, closing that gripper would put me in totally different league than closing the easiest possible #4.

That Redneck Gripper Calibrator is a really cool device, I think it gives you a more realistic view of the the difficulty variation between grippers and thus, of your own abilities. I'm willing to bet that most guys on this board would be surprised how much difference it makes in reality, if there's as little as 2 lbs difference between grippers. It's a common practice to rate grippers by hand , but the percieved difficulty by a single person can be really misleading. I know my view on what is called an average #3 changed a lot when I got my grippers calibrated. RGC however, tells you only how hard the gripper is when the handles are touching, as far as I know there is no fool-proof way to rate grippers in a way that thoroughly represents the actual difficulty. RGC doesn't tell anything about the effects of the grippers spread, for example. Usually the wider the spread, the harder the gripper is to set. Some grippers are relatively harder during the sweep, therefore harder to set, but may be easier at the close. Some grippers are relatively easy to set, but bind up hard at the end.

Well, my point in all this was to suggest, that closing any #4, while still beeing a great feat, might be somewhat overrated. What I mean by that is, that while most who have been around grippers long enough know how much grippers vary, it seems to me that when it comes to #4, that fact is more easily pushed aside because of the legendary nature of the mere number on the handles.

By this all I don't mean any disrespect towards anyone who has closed a #4 or anyone, who is training towards it. It's just the talk about how close so and so is to the #4 that got me thinking about the actual difficulty of that particular feat, which isn't standardized in any way. The more I think about it, the better the whole idea behind Mash Monster -certification becomes in my mind. That is as standardized way to compare gripper closing abilities as you can get.

Edited August 30, 2007 by Teemu I

[Florian Kellersmann]

Who all has closed the #4? I can't seem to remember, I'm pretty sure there were around 10-13 people who've closed one but these are all i can come up with for sure:

Nathan Holle-cert

John brookfield

Clay Edgin

Richard Sorin(it was a braced close so maybe this one wont count)

Joe Kinney-cert

Steve McGranahan

Dave Morton-cert

Tommy Heslep-cert

Josh Dale

Heath Sexton

Magnus Samuelsson-cert

I'm also pretty sure that one of the Gillinghams closed one yes?

A better question would be: who has done it on video with clear set and with a credible witness? A good question also would be who can close a regular SE?

What about Rob Vigeant, Benny Wennberg and Chad Woodall?

Richard Sorin in his best gripper time he did the P4 which is another 4. So yes for Richard. I also think Mark Henry closed the #4.

The P4 is not a #4.

[burkhardmacht]

I only remember Joe Kinneys close on video. No video - no close!

Watching Magnus Samulessons video You might think he can barely do a braced 4# hold - nothing less, nothing more.

[mobsterone]

I've had Sam's to under 1mm. In fact I thought I had got it but had my hand held towards the crowd and Sam said 'you could barely get a sheet of paper between the handles'. That was at the most recent British grip comp.

At the CoC event, as above, post competition when we just fooled around, I shut Frankies MM2 replica then got Jim's CoC 4 to 2mm (photos are somewhere in the gallery - taken by Gazza)

[mobsterone]

I thought Steve Gardener had done it too. Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure he's one it at least braced but I'm not sure otherwise.

I'm not sure either but last I heard he was very very close but no cigar. Much the same as Sam if I remember right.

I think if Steve reads this he would jump in and say something. Sam might be close to the #4 but I think he uses super-deep sets. Steve is closer on the same gripper, but using a bigger set, so if you combine both things, he's way ahead I would say. No disrespect to Sam, he's very young and getting stronger in every workout he posts, so he might surpass him, but right NOW he's not as good as Steve, at least not with the spring held upwards, heh.

About the ones mentioned in the original post:

I think brookfield closed it but by bracing it with his pinky?? I recall reading something along those lines.

Heath did indeed close it from what I've read, in front of Strossen too, but the latter said he used a set too deep? Again I could be wrong.

I think Rob Vigeant Jr. "monkeypaws" has closed the #4, also David Erives "gorilla hands", with Clay witnessing, according to an old post I once found. Patrick Gansel "Mr. mysterious" (ok, I made that nickname up) also closed a #4 and showed video. Some of his videos were very impressive, like the grinding of an RB300 and a TNS of a #3 that happened in like a millionth of a second, and some hydraulic #3 closes and stuff.

LNF I think you are right about most of these things. One thing I haven't read about is Rob Vigeant Jr. closing the #4.

Also when it comes to the talks about anyone beeing "close to the #4", it depends on the particular #4 as well as what you think is "close". As with all grippers, there is a huge variation how difficult they actually are. Plus the legendary nature of the #4 seems to make people forget more often than with other grippers, how the difficulty of that particular feat varies depending on a lot of variables, like the afore mentioned variation in grippers, the setting style etc.. I would of course say that closing any #4 using a parallel set is a great feat. I respect anyone who has closed #4.

Here's an example of the gripper variation and it's effect in practice. I personally have now closed two different #3.5's on video, the other one easier, another on harder. I just recently borrowed a hardest #3.5 calibrated here in Finland, which is 6,5 kg or 14,25 lbs harder on the Redneck Gripper Calibrator (replica) than the harder of the two #3.5's I've closed. So far my best attempts on that hard #3.5 have been about 5mm's or 1/4" from beeing closed. That, is not not even close and it might take me plenty of time to get that gripper closed. It's rating on the CoC-scale is 3,68.

Now, according to the calibration results Greg and Dave got, the easiest #4 they calibrated was 3,67 on the CoC-scale, pretty much similar as the hard #3.5 I referred to, and it's 19 lbs easier than what is considered an average #4 of 209 lbs. That is even greater difference than the difference between the hardest #3.5 I've closed and the one that I, at best, have managed to get to the 1/4" of beeing closed. So, it' a long way from closing even an easiest #4 you could get your hands on to beeing able to close an average #4. Now, if I wanted to cut some corners on my way to my long term goal of closing a #4, I could search a #4 that is as easy as that hard #3.5, work my way up to it, which shouldn't take that long in my mind, take the close on video and get kudos without much reservation from most on this board it seems. Well, I would not do it, because I would not feel good about it and not see myself as a #4 closer. My actual long term goal is to close my #4, which is slightly below but awfully close to the average #4, it calibrated to be 3,96 on the CoC-scale. In my mind, closing that gripper would put me in totally different league than closing the easiest possible #4.

That Redneck Gripper Calibrator is a really cool device, I think it gives you a more realistic view of the the difficulty variation between grippers and thus, of your own abilities. I'm willing to bet that most guys on this board would be surprised how much difference it makes in reality, if there's as little as 2 lbs difference between grippers. It's a common practice to rate grippers by hand , but the percieved difficulty by a single person can be really misleading. I know my view on what is called an average #3 changed a lot when I got my grippers calibrated. RGC however, tells you only how hard the gripper is when the handles are touching, as far as I know there is no fool-proof way to rate grippers in a way that thoroughly represents the actual difficulty. RGC doesn't tell anything about the effects of the grippers spread, for example. Usually the wider the spread, the harder the gripper is to set. Some grippers are relatively harder during the sweep, therefore harder to set, but may be easier at the close. Some grippers are relatively easy to set, but bind up hard at the end.

Well, my point in all this was to suggest, that closing any #4, while still beeing a great feat, might be somewhat overrated. What I mean by that is, that while most who have been around grippers long enough know how much grippers vary, it seems to me that when it comes to #4, that fact is more easily pushed aside because of the legendary nature of the mere number on the handles.

By this all I don't mean any disrespect towards anyone who has closed a #4 or anyone, who is training towards it. It's just the talk about how close so and so is to the #4 that got me thinking about the actual difficulty of that particular feat, which isn't standardized in any way. The more I think about it, the better the whole idea behind Mash Monster -certification becomes in my mind. That is as standardized way to compare gripper closing abilities as you can get.

There isn't that great a variation. Besides, as much discussed it'll be CCS or nothing now.

[FrankyBoy]

Still Shot I took from Mobster attempt on the #4 at the COC:

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?automod...si&img=3415

[CoC#3]

I have perfomed a braced close on a #4. I have also got a #4 to 2mm unbraced. All this is done inverted. I haven't come closer than about 5-6mm with the spring facing up.

[Alawadhi]

Richard Sorin in his best gripper time he did the P4 which is another 4. So yes for Richard. I also think Mark Henry closed the #4.

The P4 is not a #4.

I know. But what I meant is the strength that is compared to a #4, if not harder. Richard said he saw Tommy and Dave (both #4 closers) closed the P4 with a deep set. And we all know Dave did 4 reps on the #4. That means it's very comparable to a #4 (in strength).

As for Rob Vigeant Jr. he for sure did close an SE in strong arm tactics 2004. He also attempted the #4 but missed.

[Teemu I]

I thought Steve Gardener had done it too. Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure he's one it at least braced but I'm not sure otherwise.

I'm not sure either but last I heard he was very very close but no cigar. Much the same as Sam if I remember right.

I think if Steve reads this he would jump in and say something. Sam might be close to the #4 but I think he uses super-deep sets. Steve is closer on the same gripper, but using a bigger set, so if you combine both things, he's way ahead I would say. No disrespect to Sam, he's very young and getting stronger in every workout he posts, so he might surpass him, but right NOW he's not as good as Steve, at least not with the spring held upwards, heh.

About the ones mentioned in the original post:

I think brookfield closed it but by bracing it with his pinky?? I recall reading something along those lines.

Heath did indeed close it from what I've read, in front of Strossen too, but the latter said he used a set too deep? Again I could be wrong.

I think Rob Vigeant Jr. "monkeypaws" has closed the #4, also David Erives "gorilla hands", with Clay witnessing, according to an old post I once found. Patrick Gansel "Mr. mysterious" (ok, I made that nickname up) also closed a #4 and showed video. Some of his videos were very impressive, like the grinding of an RB300 and a TNS of a #3 that happened in like a millionth of a second, and some hydraulic #3 closes and stuff.

LNF I think you are right about most of these things. One thing I haven't read about is Rob Vigeant Jr. closing the #4.

Also when it comes to the talks about anyone beeing "close to the #4", it depends on the particular #4 as well as what you think is "close". As with all grippers, there is a huge variation how difficult they actually are. Plus the legendary nature of the #4 seems to make people forget more often than with other grippers, how the difficulty of that particular feat varies depending on a lot of variables, like the afore mentioned variation in grippers, the setting style etc.. I would of course say that closing any #4 using a parallel set is a great feat. I respect anyone who has closed #4.

Here's an example of the gripper variation and it's effect in practice. I personally have now closed two different #3.5's on video, the other one easier, another on harder. I just recently borrowed a hardest #3.5 calibrated here in Finland, which is 6,5 kg or 14,25 lbs harder on the Redneck Gripper Calibrator (replica) than the harder of the two #3.5's I've closed. So far my best attempts on that hard #3.5 have been about 5mm's or 1/4" from beeing closed. That, is not not even close and it might take me plenty of time to get that gripper closed. It's rating on the CoC-scale is 3,68.

Now, according to the calibration results Greg and Dave got, the easiest #4 they calibrated was 3,67 on the CoC-scale, pretty much similar as the hard #3.5 I referred to, and it's 19 lbs easier than what is considered an average #4 of 209 lbs. That is even greater difference than the difference between the hardest #3.5 I've closed and the one that I, at best, have managed to get to the 1/4" of beeing closed. So, it' a long way from closing even an easiest #4 you could get your hands on to beeing able to close an average #4. Now, if I wanted to cut some corners on my way to my long term goal of closing a #4, I could search a #4 that is as easy as that hard #3.5, work my way up to it, which shouldn't take that long in my mind, take the close on video and get kudos without much reservation from most on this board it seems. Well, I would not do it, because I would not feel good about it and not see myself as a #4 closer. My actual long term goal is to close my #4, which is slightly below but awfully close to the average #4, it calibrated to be 3,96 on the CoC-scale. In my mind, closing that gripper would put me in totally different league than closing the easiest possible #4.

That Redneck Gripper Calibrator is a really cool device, I think it gives you a more realistic view of the the difficulty variation between grippers and thus, of your own abilities. I'm willing to bet that most guys on this board would be surprised how much difference it makes in reality, if there's as little as 2 lbs difference between grippers. It's a common practice to rate grippers by hand , but the percieved difficulty by a single person can be really misleading. I know my view on what is called an average #3 changed a lot when I got my grippers calibrated. RGC however, tells you only how hard the gripper is when the handles are touching, as far as I know there is no fool-proof way to rate grippers in a way that thoroughly represents the actual difficulty. RGC doesn't tell anything about the effects of the grippers spread, for example. Usually the wider the spread, the harder the gripper is to set. Some grippers are relatively harder during the sweep, therefore harder to set, but may be easier at the close. Some grippers are relatively easy to set, but bind up hard at the end.

Well, my point in all this was to suggest, that closing any #4, while still beeing a great feat, might be somewhat overrated. What I mean by that is, that while most who have been around grippers long enough know how much grippers vary, it seems to me that when it comes to #4, that fact is more easily pushed aside because of the legendary nature of the mere number on the handles.

By this all I don't mean any disrespect towards anyone who has closed a #4 or anyone, who is training towards it. It's just the talk about how close so and so is to the #4 that got me thinking about the actual difficulty of that particular feat, which isn't standardized in any way. The more I think about it, the better the whole idea behind Mash Monster -certification becomes in my mind. That is as standardized way to compare gripper closing abilities as you can get.

There isn't that great a variation. Besides, as much discussed it'll be CCS or nothing now.

According to RGC gripper calibration results, there are #4's from 3,67 or 190lbs all the way up to the 4,33 or 228,5 lbs (one #4 calibrated that high here in Finland). I think that is great variation, almost 40 lbs of difference. And the difference doesn't have to be that big to make significant difference to the outcome of any person trying to close a #4, be that CCS or MMS or whatever. My post was not intended towards anyone personally, just pointing out what I think I have learned about the common expression used here, "grippers vary".

Edited August 30, 2007 by Teemu I

[mobsterone]

I should have included the word 'now'. So that those closing the more recent models will find the variation less than before. Plus it should always be train hard, lift easy. So certing becomes a done deal.

[Teemu I]

I should have included the word 'now'. So that those closing the more recent models will find the variation less than before. Plus it should always be train hard, lift easy. So certing becomes a done deal.

I have heard that there has been even more variation in the earlier grippers and while that all makes sense, there's quite significant variation between the new grippers too. For example #3.5's are all to be considered new, this is how much they vary as I know it: easiest I know is 76,5 kg / 168,9 lbs / rating= 3,32 and the hardest is 86 kg / 189,85 lbs / rating = 3,68. Now that makes a difference I believe.

The latter part of training hard, lifting easy and certing becoming a done deal, I totally agree.