V-bar

[EricMilfeld]

I really enjoy the unique challenge of training this lift, but I'm stunned by the huge disparity in gripability that bars of seemingly the same stats possess. I recently made a third v- bar, this particular one from steel pipe, from which I removed the black paint. On this bar, in peak, fresh form, I managed a pull of 258 for the Grip Bash. Several weeks prior to this I had lifted 293 on a galvanized pipe of the same dimensions. This was performed on a warm muggy day with lots of chalk to combat the effects of my sweaty hands. Oddly enough I have yet to get within 35 pounds of that effort with the same bar, and think the cooler, dryer air has much to do with it. I've tried chalk, clean dry hands, clean clammy hands, but nothing has provided me with the friction I felt on that particular day with that bar. Then today Mike P shows up with a smooth, steel bar of the same dimensions (1x24") and we both quickly work up to our best efforts of the last month, without chalk. So we decide to test the effect of chalk (it was dry and cold out in my garage tonight) and we both shattered our personal bests. And this happened after my heavy gripper workout, and some heavy thick bar lifts that we both trained. Mike beat his best by nearly forty pounds with 243, and I lifted 303. So, despite two smooth steel bars sharing the same dimensions, one feels as if it's knurled in comparison to the other. Can it be that one of the smooth steel surfaces is more porous than the other? Is there some other likely factor we're missing here? I tend to think one is simply more pourous. By the way, not always (depending on the specific bar and moisture level), but most of the time chalk seems to be the ticket with this lift. I guess the most practical lesson of all this is the need to insure not only identical dimensions, but steel surface type, as well, when comparing competitive lifts. The LGC bars I undestand are made to address these concerns, but is there variance in gripability amongst these bars? Or is the steel highly uniform? Also, am I right in thinking that some bars always provide the best grip with chalk, while others may or may not require chalk depending upon humidity, sweat presence, etc.? I'm kinda rambling here and thinking aloud, but I'm curioius as to other's experiences and thoughts on the matter. Thanks.

[Jonathan McMillan]

Eric

Thanks for the ramble -it will be interesting to see if as a group we can shed more light on the subject. I have only tried v-bar lifting on 3 bars. My first experience was with a safety bar from my power cage -it was what I practiced with for GGC. Smitty scared me prior to the contest saying how slick the LGC bar was compared to a power cage bar. However, at the contest I blew my PR by 70+lbs. Now the bar was totally encrusted in Chalk, I think this was the key as you point out. Normally when I trained the lift I used to just dust my hands. My v-bar made for the grip bash gave me #'s more inline with my safety bar lifts. Maybe if I had tried to mimic the copious amounts of chalk on my gripbash bar I might have gotten closer to my GGC #'s. That is minus the adrenline factor of course!!!

Steel surface porous variations is an interesting idea theory....

Jon@han

[Jedd Johnson]

The chalk is a huge factor. Mikael told us to load it with chalk, and that is just what we did for two months.

I swear the handle was more than 1/4 inch bigger around by the end of GGC.

I do not have any info on the different metals, as the only vbar I have used is the official one.

-Jedd-

[Hubgeezer]

I have wondered about that on other implements, like IM's slick Hub, Block. I have suspected for a while it is humidity, and perhaps temperature. One way of knowing is to compare notes with how others did on the same day at the same place. Did everyone have a good day, bad day, etc.? That would be one way of determining if it is personal or other factors.

Hubgeezer

[Bill Piche]

I think there's definitely a variation based on temperature. Including the temp of your skin possibly. More skin, more frictional base to lift.

[climber511]

I have only tried my own v-bar but I found a pretty good variance between summer and cool weather. Humidity seems to affect it a good bit. The key seems to be "lots" of chalk and clean hands before starting. I usually start my grip workouts with a hand wash using Lava soap to get all the grease off my hands. Seems to help.

[OldGuy]

A problem with many grip feats is factors other than strength and ability making such a huge difference.

[Zevich]

I think humidity has very much to do with variance. I live in the tropics so it is hot and humid everyday. In a humid condition how long does it take your hands to turn from dry to moist after you have wiped your hand? Seconds? Less?

Thinking that you palm and fingers are try to them actually being dry may be two different things. By the time you grab onto a bar thinking your hands are dry moisture may have started.

I would love to fry some of my lifts say in the winter in Montana or Wyoming. I bet I would be pleasantly surprised.

[Mikael Siversson]

The LGC bars I undestand are made to address these concerns, but is there variance in gripability amongst these bars?  Or is the steel highly uniform?  Also, am I right in thinking that some bars always provide the best grip with chalk, while others may or may not require chalk depending upon humidity, sweat presence, etc.?  I'm kinda rambling here and thinking aloud, but I'm curioius as to other's experiences and thoughts on the matter.  Thanks.

←

I am probably the only person able to answer that question as I am the only one (except Arne Persson) who own more than one LGC v-bars. To me the two bars I have feel identical. My results used to vary wildely until I settled on practice this lift once a week only. For consistent results you need to chalk up your hand as much as possible and then grip the bar without brushing off the excess. Secondly, you need to let the skin rest long enough so that your strength is not shut down to some extent by the pain (this may take more than a week for some individuals). Thirdly, this lift is like a deadlift as you don't feel the weight beforehand like you do when you unrack a bar for a benchpress. These three factors in combination, can, if not controlled properly, produce a wide range of results even with the same bar. After a year of training with the LGC v-bar my 2003 practise results with my right hand for example was always within the 137.5-147.5k range, a variation certainly not greater than in any other friction based lift.

I might add that I have not noticed any differences in performance between the dry winter and the considerably more humid summers in southern Sweden. Here in Perth though, it is nice and warm most of the time.

Edited November 29, 2004 by Mikael Siversson

[Mikael Siversson]

Dean Bolt, David Horne and Steve Gardener averaged (using results for both right and left hand) 297lbs at the 2004 Iron Grip Championship and 289lbs at the 2004 European Championship. Two different LGC v-bars were used. The difference is not significant, indicating that the two v-bars are either inseparable from a performance point of view or that there is a significant difference but that this was counteracted by strength levels of the three competitors changing drastically over the three months between the competitions.

[MikeP]

I have lifted on Eric's bar and I didn't note that much pain, your hand just slipped off before it got enough traction to hurt. After doing 235 on my bar I had a red smear on my palm where there used to be chalk, and noted some stinging. Same with Eric I think. The 1" steel on my bar was buffed with a wire wheel and is unpainted. His was galvanized and he sanded it, it was so damn slick that chalk wouldn't "cake" onto it. Why not knurl the Vbars for more consistency? Tear the hand up too much or just make it where the body is the limiting factor and not the grip?

Edited November 29, 2004 by MikeP

[Clay Edgin]

I too learned that lifting the vbar once a week was about right for me to make strength gains. My first time doing it I didn't pull more than 245 and thought I was in for some serious trouble at GGC. The next week I pulled 290, the following week 335, and then nickle-and-dimed my way up to 345 the month before the contest.

[king crusher]

clay 345. omg you mutant. thats crazy.

[jimcg]

Why not knurl the Vbars for more consistency?  Tear the hand up too much or just make it where the body is the limiting factor and not the grip?

←

Maybe I misunderstand you, MikeP, but isn't V-bar supposed to be a grip related lift? Unless lacking basic body strenth, the grip should be the limiting factor in my opinion.

//Jim

[Mikael Siversson]

Why not knurl the Vbars for more consistency?  Tear the hand up too much or just make it where the body is the limiting factor and not the grip?

←

Because the results don't vary more than for example pinching once you get all the variables sorted out (as I just said in the previous post). As I said, my 2003 right hand v-bar lifts were always in the 137.5-147.5k range. My current one hand rafter pinch (righty) varies between 41k (90 lbs) and 46k (101 lbs). Would you recommend a knurled surface for pinching, as this lift varies more than my v-bar lifts did?

[OldGuy]

With pinching, people are not able to raise huge weights as they are with v-bar, so upperbody strength is much less of a factor.

[Mikael Siversson]

True, but if the v-bar performance is limited by your core strength, then you really need to do some weight lifting. The one hand lift, for example (as used in the Europeans) would require almost twice as much core strength as the v-bar.

[MikeP]

When I say vary, I don't mean between your lifts, I mean between different apparatuses (apparati?) It makes it very difficult to compare my lifts to yours because the finish is different and that makes a huge difference. Knurling would make it more consistent and easier to compare, and yes, I might recommend knurling for pinching because plates vary greatly. This is not really practical but grippy tape applied to the plate would be. The weight raised would be much more but it would be consistent across the board. That was my question about why no knurling, would it make it possible to raise such a great load that the body would then become the weak link, and not the grip as intended? Or would it tear your hand up bad when it finally gave way with like 500lbs? Is that clear as mud? I'm sure your solution for consistency would be for everyone to buy a LGC replica, and then it would be a non-issue.

Editted to add that I'm not being a dick

Edited December 2, 2004 by MikeP

[climber511]

I'd like to bring the V-bar issue back up if I may. What are the specs on the LGC V-bar? It's metric if I remember corectly.

What is the address and cost to obtain one? I've tried searching and just digging and can't find the contact info. I'm sure I read it sometime in the past.

I've been using one I made from 3/4" pipe and for those of you who have tried them, how do you feel a LGC replica, 3/4" pipe(bare steel), 1" HRS, and 1" CRS compare - or is the difference significant? For training, I doubt it matters, but I'm just curious how I'd do on the real thing.

[Jeremy Sipple]

I am new to seirous grip training. for the V bar I use the ironmind olympic loading pin. My best is only 150. I was wondering if anyone else tried using a loading pin for v bar lifts too?

Jeremy

[DAN PRAYDIS]

my opinion is this time of year the heat is on and drys out your skin i have dry skin to begin with so i wash good and get my hands soaked in hot water . then dry them and go lift if i dont and leave my hands dry i will lift 30 to 40 lbs less on the v bar and pinch lifts . try it remember the softer the racecar tire the more traction it has.

[Mikael Siversson]

my opinion is this time of year the heat is on and drys out your skin i have dry skin to begin with so i wash good and get my hands soaked  in hot water . then dry them and go lift if i dont and leave my hands dry i will lift 30 to 40 lbs less on the v bar and pinch lifts . try it  remember  the softer the racecar tire the more traction it has.

←

I use lots of chalk when I do v-bar lifting. I have not found any differences between lifting in dry winter conditions compared to the more humid and warmer summers (unlike lifting with IM's RT handle). The chalk even things out it seems.

[Mikael Siversson]

I'd like to bring the V-bar issue back up if I may.  What are the specs on the LGC V-bar?  It's metric if I remember corectly.

What is the address and cost to obtain one? I've tried searching and just digging and can't find the contact info.  I'm sure I read it sometime in the past. 

   

←

The LGC replica is 24'' long and sits on a 4'' X 4'' square bottom plate. The diametre is in metric and measures 25mm (which is very close to the 25.4mm of one inch).

Arne Persson (a Grip Board Member) sells them for about $40 + shipping. I will PM you his e-mail address.