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Rick Walker

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especially IGF-1 growth hormone. That sort of explains why people tend to gain weight when drinking milk, it's a natural weight gainer.

sorry, i couldn't let this one go. the oral bioavailability of igf-1 is so poor that the effects of injesting it in your milk are nil. milk is a good weight gainer b/c of the good blend of carbs and protein.

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Several big-time olympic lifters smoke. I think that unless you drink/get high so much that it stops you from having intrest/intensity in your workouts then you would see very little performance impact. It will catch up with you later in life, after you've been smoking 20 some years, but in the short term I doubt there's any impact.

yeah the only problem I've had with getting high is being too high to workout

Edited by ulgrim
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I've heard alot of pro bodybuilders smoke weed. I'm sure they feel it helps recovery and of course appetite. Alot easier to eat 10Kcal a day when you down 4 plates of beef/brocolli for the munchies :) I just don't see how OL can smoke. They train all the time, squats, CJ, PP, snatch, etc. These wear me out big time and I don't smoke or drink and only weigh 220.

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especially IGF-1 growth hormone. That sort of explains why people tend to gain weight when drinking milk, it's a natural weight gainer.

sorry, i couldn't let this one go. the oral bioavailability of igf-1 is so poor that the effects of injesting it in your milk are nil. milk is a good weight gainer b/c of the good blend of carbs and protein.

Actually, you absorb a great deal of the IGF-1 that is in your milk. Milk has special properties that allows the IGF-1 to survive digestation and be absorbed. Especially if the milk is homogenised, which almost all milk is today.

Milk contains around 100.000 different substances, it is a very complicated and misunderstood food item. Milk is so much more than just basic nutrients. Hormones and other rather unknown substances play a critical role for the total affect of milk. Milk actually act as a hormonal delivery system.

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Back to my second question:
With grip, it seems many eat what ever, whenever, some smoke (things besides cigs.) and some appear to drink heavy, yet they still make gains in grip.

Are they making maximized gains? can they reach their full potential in grip with these "habits"?

What do you all think?

Rick Walker :rock

no question some of the dudes that eat, drink an smoke whatever are incredibly strong here.

but to answer your question rick, i honestly think that those aren't maximized gains (no flames please - just my opinion) - if one eats better, etc. i think that person will make even better gains.

you are what you eat.

stay strong!! :rock

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Sybersnott

I have a glass of milk everyday in the morning... also take calcium and Vitamin C. I watch what I eat and have lost about 40 pounds (still have much more to lose). My target weight is 200 pounds. I tend to eat a lot more protein now and fewer carbs than I used to. At work, I drink water constantly. At breaktime, I enjoy a meal replacement bar and some juice. I have a protein shake sometimes in the evening, and before I go to bed I try to have some sort of protein in my system to make it through the night to stave off the late-nite hungries!! :D

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climber511

I'm not so sure that some bad habits affect your grip training so much, especially when you're young. Grip work demands only a little recovery in terms of overall body stress. It's just that those same bad habits; if unchecked for years (decades) add up to a older man with some real health issues. Smoking, excessive drinking, recreational drugs, steroids, bad eating habits and the weight gain associated with it - put it all together, and often you have some real problems to deal with as you age a little. The title of my favorite magazine when I was young was "Strength and Health" - back then I only saw STRENGTH but now I can easily see that Health is more important. As long as you're healthy, you can work on strength - try it the other way around and let me know what you think.

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Woodchuck

Tried low carb for awhile and didn't like it, even though it worked. About three months ago, I virtually stopped eating processed sugar and haven't looked back. I probably eat less than 10 grams of sugar a day in regular foods and have lost over 25 lbs. and counting. That with no excercise except my job, and no cutbacks in how much I eat. I intend to make it a lifelong commitment.

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It seems to really depend on the person (genetics). Some people can live a relatively care free life style, pay little or no attention to their nutritional needs and still possess incredible strength. Their bodies for whatever reason are very adaptable and are "making due" with what little they are giving it. Others (like myself) need to constantly fuel my body to make any reasonable gains. I'm definitely your typical hardgainer and need a solid 4-5000cal a day just to maintain what I have. I remember breaking my leg a little while back and lost a good 20+ lbs that month.

To relate this to grip, it seems that hand strength is further removed from the major systems of your body so that bad habits (poor nutrition etc..) are going to have a smaller effect. What I mean is, i've had an intense full body workout, squats followed immediately by deadlifts, then chins and presses. I was exhausted and on the floor 1 step from passing out, got up reached over and picked up my 40lbs blob lefty for the first time. Now my body&mind were absoluetly destroyed yet it didnt seem to affect my hand strength one bit. I've also had productive GRIP workouts after a long 10 hour day at work, and a poor night of sleep. I've never had a productive squat workout in that scenario.

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Jeff Parker

After reading how most guys here seem to watch what they eat I feel like a slob! Im 20 and 215. I eat whatever my mom or girlfriend make me, and since they are both great cooks I eat a ton! I take a multivitamin and L-Glutimine to keep my immune system running good, but I dont use protein anymore. I couldnt really afford it, plus when I stopped about 5 months ago, I've not noticed a slowdown in growth. But since I'm lazy I still won't be watching what I eat!

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Woodchuck
but I dont use protein anymore. I couldnt really afford it, plus when I stopped about 5 months ago, I've not noticed a slowdown in growth

I'm kinda off topic here, but since it was brought up... A doctor told me that taking protien shakes and such wreakes havoc on the kidneys, as do energy drinks supposedly. I'd never heard this before, but havn't taken protien supplements since. (mostly because I don't want to pay for them) Anyone have any learned insight on this?

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Rick Walker

No evidence of this in healthy people woodchuck.

Someone who has bad kidneys already should be concerned, if you are healthy, dont worry about it. I have consumed cose to 300 grams everyday forever. That is small compared to others.

Some of my exercise phys. professors told me the same things. They told me I only needed 30 grams a day max. My response was, "Yeah, if I want to look like YOU!"

They are all svelte men, who would be lucky to break wind let alone move any weight.

Rick Walker :rock

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Well Rick,

I eat very little of anything. But mostly I eat meats and just a little bit of vegetables, but very, very little carbs - if any. I was doing the Adkin's diet before anyone ever heard of the man. Hell, I had never heard of the man! I do protein drinks and Creatine. I never over-eat and I never get full. I do drink beer now and then, although not as often as I did. People have told me for years that I can not be strong and healthy doing that. Well, I'm 47, weight 217 at 6 feet, one inch. I am strong and I run 30 minutes on the treadmill every Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday.

As Wannagrip posted, I do have a cheat day. Sundays I will maybe eat some pizza or some corn bread. But I still don't over-eat. That's just the way I have eaten for years.

Sixgun

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Sybersnott
A doctor told me that taking protien shakes and such wreakes havoc on the kidneys, as do energy drinks supposedly. I'd never heard this before, but havn't taken protien supplements since.

:angry:

If a doctor told you to jump off a cliff... would you do that too?

This one reminds of the old, "does weight training stunt your growth?". If a doctor ever told me that eating too much protein damages your kidneys, I'd be looking for another doctor.

Seriously, NO it does not do damage to your kidneys. To build muscle you need more protein. To do that you either 1) eat a hell of a lot, or 2) supplement.

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but I dont use protein anymore. I couldnt really afford it, plus when I stopped about 5 months ago, I've not noticed a slowdown in growth

I'm kinda off topic here, but since it was brought up... A doctor told me that taking protien shakes and such wreakes havoc on the kidneys, as do energy drinks supposedly. I'd never heard this before, but havn't taken protien supplements since. (mostly because I don't want to pay for them) Anyone have any learned insight on this?

Drink plenty of water and it is nothing to worry about ...

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I think the above links posted by John Wood are great info if your on the Atkins, but if you also consume a healthy amount of fruits and vegeies along with an abundance of water , which most of the above links say were omitted in the diet, you would not be as prone to kidney stones.

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Davekline

I think it is generally recomended that if you are going onto a crash-atkins diet, you need to up your calcium intake and drink alot more water to avoid various issues related to the unbalenced dietary consumption.

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Woodchuck
A doctor told me that taking protien shakes and such wreakes havoc on the kidneys, as do energy drinks supposedly.  I'd never heard this before, but havn't taken protien supplements since.

:angry:

If a doctor told you to jump off a cliff... would you do that too?

This one reminds of the old, "does weight training stunt your growth?". If a doctor ever told me that eating too much protein damages your kidneys, I'd be looking for another doctor.

Seriously, NO it does not do damage to your kidneys. To build muscle you need more protein. To do that you either 1) eat a hell of a lot, or 2) supplement.

First he wasn't my doctor, it was just for a required physical. Second, I don't agree with everything doctors believe either. They argue amongst themselves on just about every subject. That being said, I'm not going to just disregard something a man said who has studied human health for years, then practised it for years all-the-while reading medical journals, talking to colleagues and whatever else doctors do to stay up to date on the latest trends and finds simply because I don't like what he has to say about my supplementation strategies.

It sounds plausible that dehydrated protien complex can damage the kidneys. I appreciate you're attempt at an answer in the end of your post, but I won't be mocked for not knowing everything. Especially on a topic which very few know very much as it is. I never said supplementing won't build muscle, but neither have you shown that it won't harm kidneys. I asked for learned insights purposely. Learned as in educated.

Anywho, no biggie. :) Thanks to all who responded.

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Woodchuck
I think it is generally recomended that if you are going onto a crash-atkins diet, you need to up your calcium intake and drink alot more water to avoid various issues related to the unbalenced dietary consumption.

I too believe this wholeheartedly. A doctor I do believe in named Joel Wallach says kidney stones are caused by a deficiency of calcium whereby the body is forced to take calcium from your bones to compensate. This form of calcium is not ideal for normal body use and can result in bone spurs and kidney stones. To top it off, supposedly many doctors will advise a person with these conditions to lower calcium consumption thereby compounding the problem. :laugh

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foggymountainmuscle

I'd be more worried about creatine affecting the kidneys than protien. Then again most bodybuilding magazines suggest grossly, over the top protien intake levels (in my opinion, I happen to make great gains on about 40 grams less than one gram per pound of bodyweight) for "maximum gains".

I remember reading about one bodybuilder who almost died of kidney failure, his creatine levels were like 5 times over the toxicity limit. This was strongly correlated to the fact that he did almost any and every drug and took 8 tylinal throughout the day because his joints jurt so bad from his heavy low rep training. I imagine the steroids didn't allow his joints to recover as fast as his muscles from each workout. When I say nearly died, I mean if he didn't go to the hospital that day he'd have been dead in the next day or so. So those of you who aren't really concerned about what's going into your body, ask yourself if you are doing the very same thing as this guy was, just at a slower rate.

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the bodybuilder you speak of is tom prince, who was one of my favorites until i read that :erm .....still, a 455lb shoulder press, none of this machine crap, well thats just nuts

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Prince took things to the limit. I would suggest that he has that mentality, and that has as much to do with his current health problems than any one area of concern (nutrition, drugs etc). I doubt that there are many here (or anywhere, come to that) who will take it to that level, and for those that will even Prince had plenty of warning signs had he but looked.

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Tried low carb for awhile and didn't like it, even though it worked. About three months ago, I virtually stopped eating processed sugar and haven't looked back. I probably eat less than 10 grams of sugar a day in regular foods and have lost over 25 lbs. and counting. That with no excercise except my job, and no cutbacks in how much I eat. I intend to make it a lifelong commitment.

There is no magical mix of macronutrients for weight-loss(bodyweight, not water weight) it is all caloric intake vs caloric expenditure. The key as you wisely mentioned is making lifestyle changes. These changes whatever they are, should lower your caloric intake or increase your caloric expenditure, or both.

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Rick Walker

I am with opnsysme on this argument.

First off, straight akins is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Especially for someone who is active. I mentioned earlier that I run 2+ miles 3 times a week, bike 4-5 days a week for 1-2 hours, and swim 15 or more minutes straight for 4-5 days a week. Also, I train with weights 6 days a week and grip 6 days a week. If I were on atkins, I would not have the energy to do half of that workload. I eat carbs like they are going out of style.

The carbs I eat are from vegtables (my garden is in full bloom!) fruits, potatoes, yams, oatmeal, brown rice, and pastas. I dont slouch either-I eat a pretty good amount.

I also eat around 300 grams of protein. I drink up to 3 gallons of water a day as well. I had a professor bitch about that once as well (Mr. Walker, all you need is 8-10 8 ounce glasses a day, no more)

I have had probably close to 100 blood tests in my life. I have never had kidney function trouble. However i will say, once when I was using creatine, my creatine levels were pretty high. The doctor asked me if I supplemented with creatine, I said yes, and he said okay, then that is normal. No big deal.

He is the director of electrophysiology at UPMC Pittsburgh and is probably one of the smartest men alive. ;)

Rick Walker :rock

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