Mmg Witness And Judges

[Bill Piche]

The only time it's come into play is when you can't tell it was either set at parallel (looks closer) or the handles were not shut. Then, it's gone to the two other judges. If I was to point at one area that it really focuses on is the setting distance. If there is any question, the video allows you to go frame by frame and instant replay it for the extra judges. Just like the NFL does today.

Rob F got his turned down because we caught on video after the fact that his left hand assisted in the close. He was forthright and after seeing the video, agreed. It was done so fast, the witness could not possibly notice it.

[DoDa]

I think capturing video of the event is a great idea, it provides evidence of the event and serves as motivation for other aspiring gripsters.  However, I do think the expectations are a bit high.  Three attempts, in 15 minutes makes perfect sense, ensuring great video at the same time is a bit more difficult.  Just think of all of the COC's on the board who had problems getting a photo of their close for certification, even with unlimited attempts and rolls of film some people had trouble.

Heath's advice is correct, if you want to get good at filming gripper closes, you have to practice filming gripper closes.  My one and only criticism is that this is the Gripboard and not the amateur videographers board.

I agree that this is not an amateur video board but if ample proof is not provided then some members of this board will dispute the close. That is why the video expectations should be high. The video is the proof to the members of the board that the close WAS for real!

[Rick Browne]

That complete accountability of gripper domination be assured by the

athlete himself before a cert attempt is made.

"Yes, I can set... hold... and show a good clean close"

"Now give me a shot"

[Bob Lipinski]

Bill-

I think things are fine now. I thought about it several times, but I like the way the judging goes now.

The only thing- If a spacer was approved for MMG3 and above, that might solve the issue, and I would have no complaints.

I believe the system you have in place now is fair to both the integrity of the process as well as the grippers. You have done well, and at the very least far better than what was out there. The two video review judges help dispel any wipespread disagreement in the process, regardless of how many witness were present.

[Clay Edgin]

I disagree Bob. Having many people present to witness the feat and agree that it was done within the rules is, to me at least, more valuable than what a video can see. The video can only see one angle, while the witnesses can move around and see different angles.

[Bob Lipinski]

Yeah, I know what yuo mean Clay. If you've got 3 judges there, should video matter? Honestly, it is a tossup in my eyes, because the whole point of the video is to remove doubt from the process for the "rest of the world". If the video is crap, then you're voiding the whole purpose of it, and you might as well just require a few witnesses.

Either way, fine with me.

[Rick Browne]

If the video is crap, then you're voiding the whole purpose of it, and you might as well just require a few witnesses.

Good point! But if you submit clearcut vids, such as the vids from

Heath and most recently Clay, it becomes a smooth process through out.

I have watched some "No doubt about it" vids and some "Hmmm, looks

kind of shakey, lets' review it again vids". Still not a perfect world, but

it is the best we have. I think Bill has the bases covered.

[mANVIL]

What is the parallel handle distance? When I hold my #2 at parallel I get about 5/8", which is a pretty deep set as it is. 20mm is just a tad over 3/4". ::shrugs shoulders::

BC.

BC - I understand that because grippers differ ( based on handle spread etc..) parallel depth will be different per gripper. But since the MMG's have their handle spread etched in stone it would be easy enough to make a spacer exact enough for the MMG's to be at parallel. It wouldnt really matter if you're #2 is parallel at 5/8 or my #3 is parallel at 1 inch, the only length that matters is what the MMG's handles are parallel at.

[Bill Piche]

I disagree Bob. Having many people present to witness the feat and agree that it was done within the rules is, to me at least, more valuable than what a video can see. The video can only see one angle, while the witnesses can move around and see different angles.

Clay,

Look at this example.

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=8184

So, do you think that witnesses can make a determination provided they have the perfect angle of a parallel set in about .1 seconds?

[CMunger]

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, and I'm obviously not Clay, but it appears as though the hand is definitely blocking the camera prior to the release and close, but a witness would at a higher viewing angle, and I would think would be able to determine that the handles were at parallel (or not) prior to the release of the second hand.

Now whether there's any "transfer of momentum" from the second hand is what could get tough on a 1/10th of a second deal.

[Bill Piche]

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, and I'm obviously not Clay, but  it appears as though the hand is definitely blocking the camera prior to the release and close, but a witness would at a higher viewing angle, and I would think would be able to determine that the handles were at parallel (or not) prior to the release of the second hand. 

Now whether there's any "transfer of momentum" from the second hand is what could get tough on a 1/10th of a second deal.

In less than a blink of an eye the witness can tell parallel versus closer? That's the question I am asking. DoDa postec that the human eye has a response of detection of .05 second. So, maybe it is possible.

[Mikael Siversson]

To get around people using different types of spacers bill could decide on an adequate one and then send it in the package along with the gripper.

David Hornes description of British Grip Championships:

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

What is the parallel handle distance? When I hold my #2 at parallel I get about 5/8", which is a pretty deep set as it is. 20mm is just a tad over 3/4". ::shrugs shoulders::

BC.

Parallel handles is not a fixed measurement. It increases with increasing coil diameter. Parallel handels on a #4 is wider than on a #3 and so forth. Not ideal but not a major problem either really. For certification or competition the parallel position of the handles should, IMO, be regarded as the absolut maximum depth allowed. To get a parallel depth passed the set should have to be done very slowly indeed to satisfy a critical judge. I try myself to set it closer to 1/4'' wider than parallel so there is no question that it was a legal attempt.

[CMunger]

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, and I'm obviously not Clay, but  it appears as though the hand is definitely blocking the camera prior to the release and close, but a witness would at a higher viewing angle, and I would think would be able to determine that the handles were at parallel (or not) prior to the release of the second hand. 

Now whether there's any "transfer of momentum" from the second hand is what could get tough on a 1/10th of a second deal.

In less than a blink of an eye the witness can tell parallel versus closer? That's the question I am asking. DoDa postec that the human eye has a response of detection of .05 second. So, maybe it is possible.

I just mean it's parallel before the release of the hand. Yes the close occurs that fast, but the setting does not. so I suppose what it at issue is at what point the second hand is away and unassisting as the gripper moves beyond parallel toward the close.