THINK A TEEN COULD BE A 3.5 CERTIFIER? THINK NO MORE!

[Hubgeezer]

1 hour ago, Cannon said:

Shamey?

Yes.

[slazbob]

59 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

Also, Shamey is already probably the best gripper guy of all time taking into account BOTH hands. Thoughts?

With your stance on the Kinney close, how can you feel this way? 

[pancho_grip_lift]

1 hour ago, Ivan Cuk said:

I believe back then Jonathan Vogt was a top contender for certing on the 4 and was very young as well. Did he get injured or something seems like he just disappeared. 

He uploaded this update last year. Maybe he is training in the shadows...

[pancho_grip_lift]

1 hour ago, Wannagrip said:

Also, Shamey is already probably the best gripper guy of all time taking into account BOTH hands. Thoughts?

We must see him reach the MM8 or above...still a couple of levels to get there

[Kashtan]

10 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

You are correct, no one has Certified on the #4 with the credit card set since that rule went into effect in March, 2004. 

At first, i did not believe it to be a foregone conclusion that it is a matter of time before Ivan Certs on the #4. Except in the case of Ivan, he has what NO previous 3.5 Certifier has, and it is a proven scientific fact. He has TIME.

 Not everyone on this Forum remembers Dale Harder, an active member here by the Gripboard name of Oldtimer. Dale was a retired math teacher who wrote a number of self-published unique books on strength, strength history, and was a big time follower of track and field/athletics and other such matters. He used to publish a newsletter called Strength & Speed, and was good friends with Richard Sorin. I wrote a half dozen articles for Strength & Speed from 2005- 2007, but I lost track of Dale a few years back. Dale was born somewhere around 1935/36 if my memory is correct. He wrote in one of his books that the Insurance Industry had done extensive studies on Hand Strength over the years, due to the many lawsuits/litigation matters regarding the loss of one’s use of the hands. These studies were not based on the anecdotal observations of people like Gripboard members, or Iron Game Enthusiasts. It was serious scientific  data regarding hand strength. The studies’ conclusion was that Grip Strength IMPROVED UNTIL AGE 32, leveled off at 42, and gradually decreased after that. Of course, many on this forum have noticed that their grip strength did not begin decreasing until well after that, and we have our own theories as to why. But,  I suspect the millions of dollars invested in studies to pay out billions of dollars for the use of the hands has significant scientific merit, so it would seem to me that Ivan has at least 14 years to move from the strength necessary to Certifying on the 3.5 to Certifying on the #4.

TIME, as The Rolling Stones sang in 1964, is on Ivan’s side. Yes it is. Time is on his side.

I remember Dale, I corresponded with him at one time,  i purchase both his digests, great books as for me, they take pride of place in my library, and there is information that neither Google nor any other modern search engine knows. Great knowledge.

[Bill Piche]

3 hours ago, slazbob said:

With your stance on the Kinney close, how can you feel this way? 

See my several posts in the recent 10 reasons Kinney close thread.

[slazbob]

26 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

See my several posts in the recent 10 reasons Kinney close thread.

I have, Bill...it doesn’t explain to me how you believe Joe’s close which is otherworldly, to be real, and then say David is the best all-time? 

[slazbob]

54 minutes ago, JDC James said:

Now I can't speak for Wannagrip, but to me it's a bit unfair to always say that Joe was the best closer of all time, because it puts down the achievements of others, even if you believe in Joe full heartedly. In a way, there's no point to saying that Joe was the best, because if you assume his close was legitimate, it's just flat out obvious he was the strongest BY FAR. I also think it's wrong to say that Joe was the best of all time because saying this takes that title away from others like Holle and Shamey (and Joe doesn't seem to care if people call him the best or not) - Guys like Holle and Shamey are the "strongest closers" because they've got everything super well documented (at least Shamey.) For me, Joe is a legend, who MAY have been the real thing. 

James, you lost me there...Bill said he believes Joe’s close was real- that leaves no debate on the “greatest of all time.” Yet, he’s flip flopping lol.

and Joe has everything documented just as well as the others- minus the witnesses. bonus, has training methods that people still use to this day...long after the sunset on Kinney. 
 

I like all the the top gripper guys...but, like Cannon mentioned, Ivan’s close was great to watch- it’s his set;  we all know he’s not at the best leverage, yet still blows through it. And if you’re a person that deep sets everything you will appreciate it even more. He doesn’t have to practice ccs because he trains that way. Randall Strossen has been preaching for 20+ years about full-range training being the best way to progress with the grippers.

most tried and go back to setting deeper because they have to use a lesser level, or they just don’t have the hand length to do it safely. 
 

then you have Joe, who never practiced wide-range closes, yet had no problem with it...was it real? I know Bill and Mike C. Think so. 
 

maybe it’s an individual thing? 

[Hubgeezer]

16 hours ago, slazbob said:

I have, Bill...it doesn’t explain to me how you believe Joe’s close which is otherworldly, to be real, and then say David is the best all-time? 

Bill P’s statement on David...he capitalized the word “BOTH” when talking about the hands. 

He put a specific qualifier on his statement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[slazbob]

2 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

Bill P’s statement on David...he capitalized the word “BOTH” when talking about the hands. 

He put a specific qualifier on his statement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Joe could hold the Monster gripper shut with “both” of his hands   

[Fist of Fury]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:48 PM, Wannagrip said:

Also, Shamey is already probably the best gripper guy of all time taking into account BOTH hands. Thoughts?

He's the only one I've seen close a #4, both left and right handed. I'm pretty sure Martin Arildsson has done this as well, although not on video.

[slazbob]

18 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

He's the only one I've seen close a #4, both left and right handed. I'm pretty sure Martin Arildsson has done this as well, although not on video.

Thought I’d seen  a video of Martin back in the day doing that..

[slazbob]

31 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

He's the only one I've seen close a #4, both left and right handed. I'm pretty sure Martin Arildsson has done this as well, although not on video.

Thought I’d seen  a video of Martin back in the day doing that..

didn’t quite touch the left, but this is the video I recalled.

[Bill Piche]

21 hours ago, slazbob said:

I have, Bill...it doesn’t explain to me how you believe Joe’s close which is otherworldly, to be real, and then say David is the best all-time? 

I said Shamey could arguably become the best with both hands gripper wise of all time based on what I have seen to date. This is my opinion and it's just that...an OPINION based on decades of observation of guys doing grippers at a high level.

[Bill Piche]

Quote

James, you lost me there...Bill said he believes Joe’s close was real- that leaves no debate on the “greatest of all time.” Yet, he’s flip flopping lol.

I do believe it was real. Where did I state he was the greatest of all time? No where. Because he's not. There is no flip flopping. Back many years ago, I was not convinced. I provided plenty of context in that thread as to why I do believe it now.  It seems you have selected reading and even more selected interpretation too.

[Bill Piche]

5 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

Bill P’s statement on David...he capitalized the word “BOTH” when talking about the hands. 

He put a specific qualifier on his statement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly!  And he hasn't really proven it yet per say.  But, what he's done with the MM grippers BOTH hands SO FAR he's got a case.  My goodness people cannot read it seems. Sheesh.

[slazbob]

8 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

I do believe it was real. Where did I state he was the greatest of all time? No where. Because he's not. There is no flip flopping. Back many years ago, I was not convinced. I provided plenty of context in that thread as to why I do believe it now.  It seems you have selected reading and even more selected interpretation too.

You believe Joe’s close was real, but he isn’t the greatest all time?! I think you “selected” the wrong type of forum for your expertise.

[Bill Piche]

3 minutes ago, slazbob said:

You believe Joe’s close was real, but he isn’t the greatest all time?! I think you “selected” the wrong type of forum for your expertise.

I believe he closed that particular #4 gripper.  I think all you are doing is trying to stir up issues now.

[slazbob]

14 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

I believe he closed that particular #4 gripper.  I think all you are doing is trying to stir up issues now.

I’m not trying anything... you can’t believe Joe’s close and base your KTA program off of his principals, and not put him at the top- it defies logic.

Edited May 30, 2021 by slazbob

[Bill Piche]

1 minute ago, slazbob said:

I’m not trying anything... you can’t believe Joe’s close and base your KTA program off of his principals, and not put him at the top- it defies logic.

No it doesn't.  I would not consider him the best of all time just based off of him being one-handed.  For example.   I predicted when Ryan Crouser was in high school probably 10 years ago he would break the world shot put record that many thought was not reachable and set 31 years ago.  He's inches from that now btw.   How does this relate? Maybe you can figure that out and how it relates to my "logic" as you referred to. 

[slazbob]

Just now, Wannagrip said:

No it doesn't.  I would not consider him the best of all time just based off of him being one-handed.  For example.   I predicted when Ryan Crouser was in high school probably 10 years ago he would break the world shot put record that many thought was not reachable and set 31 years ago.  He's inches from that now btw.   How does this relate? Maybe you can figure that out and how it relates to my "logic" as you referred to. 

Joe has a picture of him closing the no.4 ...in the video with John Wood -with his left hand. You can’t see the handles touching but looks convincing. And like I said, he told JW he held the Monster shut with BOTH hands.

 

[Bill Piche]

4 minutes ago, slazbob said:

Joe has a picture of him closing the no.4 ...in the video with John Wood -with his left hand. You can’t see the handles touching but looks convincing. And like I said, he told JW he held the Monster shut with BOTH hands.

 

Never saw or heard any of this.  So, my data does not include this information.  

[slazbob]

1 minute ago, Wannagrip said:

Never saw or heard any of this.  So, my data does not include this information.  

I posted that picture in the Kinney top 10 I believe.

[slazbob]

3 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

Never saw or heard any of this.  So, my data does not include this information.  

 

[slazbob]

25 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

Never saw or heard any of this.  So, my data does not include this information.  

And I don’t believe your data includes his lie about what happened to his gripper. It doesn’t mean, he wasn’t legit, it just means he had a reason to make it disappear. Either it was tampered with (logically), or (conjecture,when asked to rate it, he thought of a reason to not give it up).  so I’ll just say the gripper wasn’t legit.

these pictures clearly show the same gripper. The non stamp handle has a distinct little peak on the edge, and the spot on the stamp side speaks for itself.