Simple Finger Training

[climber511]

https://www.trainingbeta.com/the-simplest-finger-training-program/

[climber511]

https://www.trainingbeta.com/to-pull-or-hang/?fbclid=IwAR3cEMS7v12gFqc31fL_MjeizueTD-y7ymWMt8zvrzakIYvb0eYaKVib8vg 

 

[Climber028]

1 hour ago, WestSlope said:

Have you listened to this podcast, Chris? I listened a couple of weeks ago on a long drive into the mountains for some work. Did you understand the difference between overcoming isometric and a yielding isometric? The claim is that the overcoming iso is more of a concentric whereas the yielding iso is more of an eccentric. I can't get myself to understand how this could be.

 @Climber028 I don't know if you listen to that podcast, but I'd be interested in you thoughts on the topic.

Overcoming isometric is when you try to move something imoveable, like a bench press into pins for example where you get near a sticking point and apply the maximal force you can to the bar, which is concentric. 

A yielding isometric would be like holding a very heavy weight in a half curl position. It's not overcoming since it's a weight less than or equal to the force you can maximally apply and the failure mode of eventually lowering from the static position makes it eccentric, even if only slightly. 

 

Gripsport examples would be lifting a blob with two hands and lowering with only 1, this is a yielding isometric because your grip is failing during the entire movement. An overcoming isometric would be a blob that you can't lift remaining on the ground while you just squeeze it as hard as you possibly can. 

 

It's not that either is good or bad, just both should be used and trained separately. 

[Climber028]

24 minutes ago, WestSlope said:

That makes to me, but I think he was suggesting that you could apply sub-maximal force and you are still performing an overcoming iso. I believe he mentioned sets of overcoming isometrics at 80% of max. Is there a threshold in the same movement where a yielding iso becomes an overcoming iso?

You could, but you're still consciously trying to contract rather than trying to prevent movement. Physics wise this it could exactly the same load but the CNS differences are why it makes a difference in training. 

 

https://www.advancedhumanperformance.com/blog/overcoming-isometrics-eccentric

Here's a short article that goes into much more detail than I have if I'm still not making sense. 

[Climber028]

29 minutes ago, WestSlope said:

@Climber028 that article looks interesting. I'll finish reading it this evening. Thank you for the help.

Always, so much valuable training info from climbing that is trickling into grip too slowly. Gotta have much more intermingling of ideas, then everybody gets stronger and that's the real goal. 

[climber511]

Grip Sport and Climbing - the issue for me is how to find the things that offer a significant carryover between the two.  Considering one's limited time and recovery ability training both at the same time is something I have not found all that productive across the two.

[Climber028]

I don't even mean do both sports, but by the nature of climbing getting larger we're actually starting to see high quality studies involving finger strength that we can apply to gripsport. We all know grip will never grow large enough to get the attention of researchers. 

[climber511]

1 hour ago, WestSlope said:

I don't know if you follow Steve Bechtel or Yves Gravvelle, both of those guys have found carryover with the Saxon bar pinch and wrist wrench.

I mean everything I do for grip helps - but hangboard and actal climbing has shown by far the most bang for the buck.  Honestly I just need to climb a whole lot more - between some health problems and Covid - it's been almost 4 years since I have been able to climb as much as is needed to improve.  Plus age is catching up somewhat now.