King Kong Crusher Investigation Report

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Lubing the shaft properly is key.  Just saying.

You also gotta work the ball.......bearings. oh wait, they are none here. Silly me..............

[DAVE101]

So at the end of the day, the Crusher used at the PA venue was objectively easier than every other crusher used. What does this mean for the competition?

[Mike Rinderle]

43 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

So at the end of the day, the Crusher used at the PA venue was objectively easier than every other crusher used. What does this mean for the competition?

Or it means that every crusher of this style, that had been used for awhile, was also easier.  That would be the majority of the crushers used for kk I would guess, since this newer model has been out for quite awhile.  Only way to tell would be to inspect every one of this style used.

Either way, strike my number from the contest.  I'm out.  No way I want a tainted number by my name that people will question.  

I said taint.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Mike Rinderle

[Mike Rinderle]

Just asked Eric to give me a 0 for the event.  Man I miss the old days when it was all fun.  Can't remember the last recent contest I was at where somebody didn't bitch about results or how they were screwed.  

But but but I would have finished 51st instead of 57th if if if....

 

[Eric Roussin]

1 hour ago, DAVE101 said:

So at the end of the day, the Crusher used at the PA venue was objectively easier than every other crusher used. What does this mean for the competition?

It was objectively easier than a new Crusher, but not objectively easier than all other crushers used in King Kong. So the contest results will stand. Andrew is working on developing a protocol to minimize potential differences next year.

[Alawadhi]

7 hours ago, DAVE101 said:

So at the end of the day, the Crusher used at the PA venue was objectively easier than every other crusher used. What does this mean for the competition?

And who's to say all crushers isn't the same way? Maybe other places people deliberately put salted water and chalk inside. Not saying they did, but it's a possibility. Crushers from Joe was sent as it is. He didn't cheat. If he did then he would've cleaned the chalk. He used untampered crusher.

[Alawadhi]

9 hours ago, Boulderbrew said:

And did your 1RM return to normal range on this handle after cleaning? Did you put a new frame on it?

Hmm good question. I assume maybe a few pounds (2 to 3) less. That will be even with my slicky crushers if I put any WD40 or oil inside it too.

[Jedd Johnson]

7 hours ago, DAVE101 said:

So at the end of the day, the Crusher used at the PA venue was objectively easier than every other crusher used. What does this mean for the competition?

What do you think it means for the competition?

And do you not think every single flask, moon top and Jug were different?

Heck, I saw on Facebook the other day that a certain "coach" out there is telling his students to put water directly into their Crusher to get it to season.  Do you know how many times I've put water in an implement? One time, on my David Horne Euro.  It turned the surface to rusty after one workout. So I turned the plates around and started from scratch. The only things that have tucked it now are hands, chalk, towels and scrubbie pads.

But I see nobody questioning that "coach" on this b.s. advice...

 

[Andrew P]

 Someone forward me the link to that post. That’s falls firmly under unsportsmanlike conduct and there will be Consequences.

[Mike Rinderle]

1 hour ago, Jedd Johnson said:

What do you think it means for the competition?

And do you not think every single flask, moon top and Jug were different?

Heck, I saw on Facebook the other day that a certain "coach" out there is telling his students to put water directly into their Crusher to get it to season.  Do you know how many times I've put water in an implement? One time, on my David Horne Euro.  It turned the surface to rusty after one workout. So I turned the plates around and started from scratch. The only things that have tucked it now are hands, chalk, towels and scrubbie pads.

But I see nobody questioning that "coach" on this b.s. advice...

 

Our flask was definitely easier.  No way you could have gotten the world record or I could have improved 7 lbs over last year bro.  It's all tainted.

Said taint again.  

[DAVE101]

2 hours ago, Alawadhi said:

And who's to say all crushers isn't the same way? Maybe other places people deliberately put salted water and chalk inside. Not saying they did, but it's a possibility. Crushers from Joe was sent as it is. He didn't cheat. If he did then he would've cleaned the chalk. He used untampered crusher.

And who’s to say Joe didn’t store his Crusher in a bucket of chalk? You’re saying for a fact he didn’t cheat, but still make room to speculate for others. This report doesn’t tell us for a fact that the chalk wasn’t added on purpose or whatever. It only tells us the cause, not intent. 

It sounds like both chalk and rusting will seize the implement, but is only one of them frowned upon? Andrew had to literally pour it into the axle of an already seasoned crusher to get anything close to a similar effect.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

And who’s to say Joe didn’t store his Crusher in a bucket of chalk? You’re saying for a fact he didn’t cheat, but still make room to speculate for others. This report doesn’t tell us for a fact that the chalk wasn’t added on purpose or whatever. It only tells us the cause, not intent. 

It sounds like both chalk and rusting will seize the implement, but is only one of them frowned upon? Andrew had to literally pour it into the axle of an already seasoned crusher to get anything close to a similar effect.

First off, I’m not knowledgeable enough in the arts of cheating with grip implements to even know that. And secondly, you pay for the lie detector test and my transportation, and I will be there gladly to prove, once and for all, that the device wasn’t tampered with. Just like I said I would redo contest also. This is getting garbage ridiculous now. This is not my life and not why I do grip. Lie detector test anyone? I guess the inch dumbbell I lift and fatman blobs and no set COC 3s  are tampered with too? 

[Mike Rinderle]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

First off, I’m not knowledgeable enough in the arts of cheating with grip implements to even know that. And secondly, you pay for the lie detector test and my transportation, and I will be there gladly to prove, once and for all, that the device wasn’t tampered with. Just like I said I would redo contest also. This is getting garbage ridiculous now. This is not my life and not why I do grip. Lie detector test anyone? I guess the inch dumbbell I lift and fatman blobs and no set COC 3s  are tampered with too? 

Don't waste your breath Joe.  We've now entered silly world.

You would have to be leading a pretty sad life to cheat at grip.  The only thing sadder, I can imagine, would be to care so much about this hobby to spend your time accusing people better than you of cheating.  

[Andrew P]

Dave that crusher was not seasoned. it was only a couple of months old. 

Seriously people let be honest here. Equipment Varies. Just a fact. I can make 100% repeatable equipment. (Stainless Steel Crusher with outside Bushing and Center closed ball bearings) But nobody is willing to drop the coin it would take to make that happen. 

King Kong has been running for 6 years now. Each year we identify an issue and strive to make improvements. Even in this case the variation your talking about is at most 10% and most likely closer to 5%. Look at where we came from. Rolling thunders simply stopped rotation, 1 hand axles are a nightmare to judge, Painted Hubs are a total crap shoot as to what you get for friction.

The issue has been identified and going forward all promoters will be required to blow the dust out of the unit before the contest and oil it. That's the fairest and simplistic solution. Add a rule that stipulates that the crusher must be shown to be in good working order and fully free spinning. 

Or I can pull an full on $^%& move and make you open the package the day of the contest on video and use a brand new tool. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Don't waste your breath Joe.  We've now entered silly world.

You would have to be leading a pretty sad life to cheat at grip.  The only thing sadder, I can imagine, would be to care so much about this hobby to spend your time accusing people better than you of cheating.  

I agree 

[Alawadhi]

45 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Our flask was definitely easier.  No way you could have gotten the world record or I could have improved 7 lbs over last year bro.  It's all tainted.

Said taint again.  

I can't understand why people think getting 3.1 KG more than last year is so hard to do. Maybe last years contest he had a bad day and now was a good day. Maybe he just improved only 3.1 KG and NOT 31KG. Dude.....

23 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

And who’s to say Joe didn’t store his Crusher in a bucket of chalk? You’re saying for a fact he didn’t cheat, but still make room to speculate for others. This report doesn’t tell us for a fact that the chalk wasn’t added on purpose or whatever. It only tells us the cause, not intent. 

It sounds like both chalk and rusting will seize the implement, but is only one of them frowned upon? Andrew had to literally pour it into the axle of an already seasoned crusher to get anything close to a similar effect.

Well yeah. But anyone using his brains a bit will know if Joe purposely added the bulk of chalk in the crushers he would clean it a bit to make it spin better to avoid being caught. Of course there are room for others to do that. All there was, was a chalk. Heck I use chalk more than anyone because of my sweaty hands and the bad humid conditions here. Without much chalk I wont be able to close my CoC #1 and lift the crushers empty. No, but you got my point. The results will remain, if the majority voted (surely only few) to be removed then the only fair game is everyone sending his implement for testing. How does that sound?

9 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Don't waste your breath Joe.  We've now entered silly world.

You would have to be leading a pretty sad life to cheat at grip.  The only thing sadder, I can imagine, would be to care so much about this hobby to spend your time accusing people better than you of cheating.  

True. But there are sad people who does these things unfortunately.

18 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

First off, I’m not knowledgeable enough in the arts of cheating with grip implements to even know that. And secondly, you pay for the lie detector test and my transportation, and I will be there gladly to prove, once and for all, that the device wasn’t tampered with. Just like I said I would redo contest also. This is getting garbage ridiculous now. This is not my life and not why I do grip. Lie detector test anyone? I guess the inch dumbbell I lift and fatman blobs and no set COC 3s  are tampered with too? 

Yeah Joe I know everything you did is tampered. You are fake yourself. You don't exist. If you do then you are weak because you can't replicate Abraham Lincoln feat of holding an axe horizontally with your index and a thumb. You also can't TNS a CoC #4 with two fingers. You can't snatch a blobzilla with two fingers and a thumb. You are a fraud dude. (For anyone who didn't understand, this was a joke. Joe is stronger than most reading this I am sure)

7 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Dave that crusher was not seasoned. it was only a couple of months old. 

Seriously people let be honest here. Equipment Varies. Just a fact. I can make 100% repeatable equipment. (Stainless Steel Crusher with outside Bushing and Center closed ball bearings) But nobody is willing to drop the coin it would take to make that happen. 

King Kong has been running for 6 years now. Each year we identify an issue and strive to make improvements. Even in this case the variation your talking about is at most 10% and most likely closer to 5%. Look at where we came from. Rolling thunders simply stopped rotation, 1 hand axles are a nightmare to judge, Painted Hubs are a total crap shoot as to what you get for friction.

The issue has been identified and going forward all promoters will be required to blow the dust out of the unit before the contest and oil it. That's the fairest and simplistic solution. Add a rule that stipulates that the crusher must be shown to be in good working order and fully free spinning. 

Or I can pull an full on $^%& move and make you open the package the day of the contest on video and use a brand new tool. 

That's a nice idea. I would like to buy that stainless steel crusher!

[Paul Savage]

I would think the one that would have the most variance from venue to venue would be the jug as i know the one i have doesn't take chalk at all and is extremely slippy (sorry i don't know how to show pictures) and some of the ones i've seen have had a really well chalked finish. I have also spoke to others who have had the same issue with it being slippy and not taking chalk. I'm not sure if this is a difference in the product or there's a special way to get them to hold chalk as simply applying it to mine even pressing it in makes no change, it's still completely clean of chalk after several training sessions etc I'm sure this would make a huge difference on numbers from a jug like this to a well chalked one.

[Jedd Johnson]

3 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Dave that crusher was not seasoned. it was only a couple of months old. 

Seriously people let be honest here. Equipment Varies. Just a fact. I can make 100% repeatable equipment. (Stainless Steel Crusher with outside Bushing and Center closed ball bearings) But nobody is willing to drop the coin it would take to make that happen. 

King Kong has been running for 6 years now. Each year we identify an issue and strive to make improvements. Even in this case the variation your talking about is at most 10% and most likely closer to 5%. Look at where we came from. Rolling thunders simply stopped rotation, 1 hand axles are a nightmare to judge, Painted Hubs are a total crap shoot as to what you get for friction.

The issue has been identified and going forward all promoters will be required to blow the dust out of the unit before the contest and oil it. That's the fairest and simplistic solution. Add a rule that stipulates that the crusher must be shown to be in good working order and fully free spinning. 

Or I can pull an full on $^%& move and make you open the package the day of the contest on video and use a brand new tool. 

I like the bolded statement. 

[Mike Rinderle]

5 hours ago, DAVE101 said:

And who’s to say Joe didn’t store his Crusher in a bucket of chalk? You’re saying for a fact he didn’t cheat, but still make room to speculate for others. This report doesn’t tell us for a fact that the chalk wasn’t added on purpose or whatever. It only tells us the cause, not intent. 

It sounds like both chalk and rusting will seize the implement, but is only one of them frowned upon? Andrew had to literally pour it into the axle of an already seasoned crusher to get anything close to a similar effect.

Dave,

What place did you finish?  Taking a 0 on the crusher (and my embarrassing result on the moon drop) drops me down from 32nd to 82nd overall (4th to 6th in Masters).  Hopefully that bumps you, and everyone else questioning the results, up a spot.  

[JHenze646]

I have a question and I am sure I am not alone in my uncertainty on this topic. 

But first let me say that Andrew and Eric’s handling and statements regarding this issue are the epitome of fairness and professionalism. Needless to say issues will arise in future contests and we as competitors can only hope that are they are as thoroughly investigated and deliberated. 

Now to my question. @Andrew P why do you have such a vast collection of sparkle jel star stickers at your disposal?

[Andrew P]

What doesn't everyone have a sparkle jel star sticker collection? 

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Dave,

What place did you finish?  Taking a 0 on the crusher (and my embarrassing result on the moon drop) drops me down from 32nd to 82nd overall (4th to 6th in Masters).  Hopefully that bumps you, and everyone else questioning the results, up a spot.  

Sadly, it doesn’t help me

Moontop for Life!

Edited November 6, 2018 by Chez

[DAVE101]

You all are reading way too deep into this.

6 hours ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

And secondly, you pay for the lie detector test and my transportation, and I will be there gladly to prove, once and for all, that the device wasn’t tampered with. This is getting garbage ridiculous now.

Joe, as far as I know, no one has actually made an accusation against you. No one said that you cheated. You have been excessively defensive, but it's not needed.

1 hour ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Hopefully that bumps you, and everyone else questioning the results, up a spot.

When did I question the results? Don't make me out to be the common enemy here. I have no dog in this fight.

 

 

[Andrew P]

Dave sorry if I singled you out.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Andrew P

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

You all are reading way too deep into this.

Joe, as far as I know, no one has actually made an accusation against you. No one said that you cheated. You have been excessively defensive, but it's not needed.

When did I question the results? Don't make me out to be the common enemy here. I have no dog in this fight.

 

 

I believe you Just did stating I may have submerged my crusher in chalk in your post to @Alawadhi. Go back and read your post and tell me that can’t be construed as an accusation. This is ridiculous. If my names being used and stating I could have done this or that in regards to cheating, I’m going to react. I will take a lie detector test for any hater on this board.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Guest