Eric Roussin Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Based on all of the comments that have been posted over the last day or two about grip sport, these are some of the common points I believe are being made: Most people like the variety of events in grip sport – it’s a big reason that the sport is attractive to them. Fixed width events are probably better for initiating people to the sport (easier, faster, cheaper). The NAGS Championship should continue to include the “Big 3” events which contest both hands: grippers, two-hand pinch with the Euro, and Axle. There may not be a need to contest the Euro at smaller comps, but for the NAGS Championships – an event for the more serious grip sporters – it should be used so that everyone can perform using their preferred pinch width. Like the Euro, the axle is an event that fits well within the NAGS Championship. A possible improvement would be to increase the diameter of the bar (perhaps to 2 3/8”) which would lower the strain on the back. Not everyone will agree on all of these points, but this is what I think is coming out from the discussion. Thoughts? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) I like the idea of a 2.5" axle. I think that is a fair compromise. Edited June 9, 2017 by Chez 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I'm ok with either axles. For those that like data I pulled this after Legends and the NAGS site. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) at first I was like "how did people pull more on the thicker axle?" then I noticed the blue triangles and red boxes are mixed up. The blue diamonds are the thicker axle. Edited June 9, 2017 by Chez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Roussin Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 A clear correlation. I think this helps make the case for a larger diameter axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I wish I had done something similar in tracking the euro for myself by width. 44,48,50,54,58,60,64. I expect your going to see a jump up in the data at my sweet spot of 50 but till I have numbers that conjecture. I can show my Crusher numbers as I train different sizes for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCrushetta Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 What if the new width is not my preferred width on the axle? ... (meant to be sort of funny) To add to the summary of points coming from the other thread ... * Is the axle actually the best event to test open hand strength? Aside from all the nonsensical reasons people want to keep it in - why do we think this lift fits best in grip sport? Would moving to a one arm lift and using R and L hands be safer and better for the masses? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Good points, I know I don't have the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Eric Roussin said: Based on all of the comments that have been posted over the last day or two about grip sport, these are some of the common points I believe are being made: Most people like the variety of events in grip sport – it’s a big reason that the sport is attractive to them. Fixed width events are probably better for initiating people to the sport (easier, faster, cheaper). The NAGS Championship should continue to include the “Big 3” events which contest both hands: grippers, two-hand pinch with the Euro, and Axle. There may not be a need to contest the Euro at smaller comps, but for the NAGS Championships – an event for the more serious grip sporters – it should be used so that everyone can perform using their preferred pinch width. Like the Euro, the axle is an event that fits well within the NAGS Championship. A possible improvement would be to increase the diameter of the bar (perhaps to 2 3/8”) which would lower the strain on the back. Not everyone will agree on all of these points, but this is what I think is coming out from the discussion. Thoughts? I like your post but apparently I have maxed out my 'likes' for today (20 is the max I just learned)! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, MCrushetta said: Would moving to a one arm lift and using R and L hands be safer and better for the masses? No heavyish one handed lifts are bad for your upper back especially for lighter lifters who have to contort their upper back quite a bit when approaching body weight lifts. I have personally injured my back so many times doing rolling handles lifts I stopped counting a long time ago. Axle on the other hand is a lift where you can learn to use proper posture. There is no proper posture for a heavy one hand lift. Edited June 9, 2017 by Mikael Siversson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCrushetta Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just now, Mikael Siversson said: No heavyish one handed lifts are bad for your upper back especially for lighter lifter who have to contort their upper back quite a bit when approaching body weight lifts. I have personally injured back so many times doing rolling handles lifts I stopped counting a long time ago. Axle on the other hand is a lift where you can learn to use proper posture. There is no proper posture for a heavy one hand lift. For you they might be more dangerous. This is not true for everyone nor is it a fact. One handed lifts are actually extremely beneficial in building strength and resilience. I use them all the time for people to bring up a weak side and rid them of an injury. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 It is a fact that they load up your back asymmetrically. All my chiros I have been to over the years unanimously singled out the one handed lift as the main culprit for my back problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Give it a couple of decades and you will find out too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Hi Mikeal, baring in mind I too have had back issues I gotta say I think you're wrong in some ways. Some suggestions: So back when I first started doing grip seriously I noticed that as I approached my heavier weights there would be some difference (as you'd expect) between left and right hand strength. The problem (might be the case with you) for some people is the skew / difference can be large (20-kilos plus) in some. Now for grippers that's absolutely no problem (annoying but not painful). But with heavy one hand events, such as the previously mentioned Rolling Thunder etc etc not only would that be an issue but when we're at the 1RM / 100% our form can collapse. I'll lift straight up and down all the way to 90% and both hands are split cleanly strength wise. But at 100% of my 1RM (as in a competition) I have to watch I don't twist as I lift (torque goes through the roof). So the key (and I say this with a bulge on L5 and having been out of action for 3 months last year with a back issue) that you need to watch that the two hands are much closer in strength and NO TWISTING. Due to current work commitments one week I get a days rest between workouts and the next I do 3 days back to back = sore back. So, like the pinch workout I'll do in an hour, I need to STRETCH to stop my lower back being stiff and sore. Edited June 9, 2017 by mobsterone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I have to twist a lot or I will simply tip over. Its particularly affecting my back when I lift from the floor (eg inch trainers of various sorts). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminal Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 @Eric Roussin I appreciate your efforts to keep these discussions productive and friendly. As for one hand or two hand on the deadlift type events - clearly some of us are more easily hurt by one-handed lifts and others by the axle. I don't think there will be a clear winner in this facet of the debate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KapMan Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 46 minutes ago, Mikael Siversson said: I have to twist a lot or I will simply tip over. Its particularly affecting my back when I lift from the floor (eg inch trainers of various sorts). Seems like a you thing. i have back issues and have no issues with one handed lifts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) I have to say that my best guess for my injury last year, if not the only reason certainly a factor, was the DOH Axle hold for time. Being bent over, not moving, at a 30-40-degree angle was NOT for me. I'd had pain and the first signs of injury in June. I had some treatment before the Leeds event and then was out of action from August 10th until late October. And that's a 2-handed lift. But being bent over and having the bulge = agony. I'll agree with Kapman - it's the twisting and you. One thing I should have done which would have helped me was more core / ab work. Why would you tip over?? Edited June 9, 2017 by mobsterone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) No I think it is more simple physics related to the weight you can pull relative to your bodyweight. With a RT handle I can pull way more than my bodyweight. You will most likely find quite good correlation between twisting your upper back and how much weight you can pull relative to your bodyweight. The centre of gravity of you plus the implement will be further away from your own centre of gravity the lighter you are relative to the weight you pull. To compensate for this you need to twist your back and more so the lighter you are relative to the weight you pull. Edited June 9, 2017 by Mikael Siversson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KapMan Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mikael Siversson said: No I think it is more simple physics related to the weight you can pull relative to your bodyweight. With a RT handle I can pull way more than my bodyweight. You will most likely find quite good correlation between twisting your upper back and how much weight you can pull relative to your bodyweight. The centre of gravity of you plus the implement will be further away from your own centre of gravity the lighter you are relative to the weight you pull. To compensate for this you need to twist your back and more so the lighter you are relative to the weight you pull. Makes sense i guess. Thanks for the reply. Edited June 9, 2017 by KapMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoggoth Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 44 minutes ago, Mikael Siversson said: No I think it is more simple physics related to the weight you can pull relative to your bodyweight. With a RT handle I can pull way more than my bodyweight. You will most likely find quite good correlation between twisting your upper back and how much weight you can pull relative to your bodyweight. The centre of gravity of you plus the implement will be further away from your own centre of gravity the lighter you are relative to the weight you pull. To compensate for this you need to twist your back and more so the lighter you are relative to the weight you pull. My back is a bit gimpy as well. I can deadlift fine and fairly heavy compared to most. One armed lifts will cause twinges though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRabich Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Nobody mentions that with handles the rom is very short, I prefer full movement to test strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KapMan Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 45 minutes ago, MRabich said: Nobody mentions that with handles the rom is very short, I prefer full movement to test strength. Stubby pin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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