Jump to content

If You Had The Secret Weapon


EJ Livesey

Recommended Posts

EJ Livesey

Don't Sir, directly tell me what I think. I really don't care for you to speak for me. Thank you. I paid for his training tapes which encourage severe negatives both first and re -edited version and I have personally told you what I suggested for training, the potential pitfalls of" extreme training" which several others have suggested this intensity Damage of negative movement produces. Thank you ,Richard Sorin

When did I ever tell you what you think? The way you talk about Kinney paints a pretty vivid picture of dislike. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever to bring him into this conversation. I have also bought his tapes, then sold them. You gave me three sentences on training and one of them was a saying. The rest was about YOU re-certing and Kinney. How is that suggested training advice? You said "it has its place but shortens careers". Then you said you would use it for rehab activities. Great, you gave your opinion, why was the rest needed? Thank you EJ Livesey.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • EJ Livesey

    9

  • Jared Goguen

    6

  • ZFJango

    6

  • Hubgeezer

    4

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

There is a price to pay for every thing we do. Extreme training is going to result in more wear and tear - and more injuries - than a more moderate and sustainable training approach. It may take you

I wouldn't compare them to the slingshot, necessarily. It would be more like loading up a weight beyond your max on the bench, unracking it and holding it at right above your sticking point until you

I've used the secret weapon in the past and will continue to use it because of the results I have gotten before; there has been zero injuries while using it. I've always trained the machine in the sa

Hubgeezer

I received the Secret Weapon from my daughter around 2002. She bought it from Joe Kinney, and I think it was one of the last ones he made.

Used it 2 or 3 times over the years (giving it 2 or 3 weeks at a time), didn't like it, decided to sell it. Mighty Joe would have purchased it as a collector's piece, but I had no receipt or proof that it came from Joe Kinney.

Last year, John Wood put out a short training book on using the Secret Weapon. Joe Kinney wrote part of it. It is extremely detailed. John McCarter's training method is closer to the book than any of the methods/descriptions on this thread. I have been using the training methodology off and on for almost a year. I have had health and hand issues unrelated to using the Secret Weapon, at times taking a long layoff (6 weeks) from it and almost starting over. I liked the book, and use the principles of the book. If I ever get certified, I will owe it to the principles laid out in the book. I feel like I am laying down a "base" using the Secret Weapon that seems to help my recovery and prevent (not cause) injuries.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I received the Secret Weapon from my daughter around 2002. She bought it from Joe Kinney, and I think it was one of the last ones he made.

Used it 2 or 3 times over the years (giving it 2 or 3 weeks at a time), didn't like it, decided to sell it. Mighty Joe would have purchased it as a collector's piece, but I had no receipt or proof that it came from Joe Kinney.

When I purchased mine from Joe, I sent him a postal money order if memory serves me correctly. I also have a handwritten letter from him thanking me for my purchase along with an autographed picture of him bursting a beer can and instructions for installation using the lag bolts that were provided. I am going from memeory here but I can likely readliy dig this stuff up. That should be proof enough. Mighty Joe- are you out there?

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is turning into more of a history lesson than a training thing, but I have seen a diy version that was super simple. Flanges, 2 pipes and some wood.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it can be a change up type of exercise...shouldn't be forgot about. On paper, this really does seem like a "Secret Weapon" ...for grippers. But I always have to put time on something, then reap the benefits down the road. and never really did that with this. I'd throw it in the rotation for a few workouts and would move on...

I lost a little confidence in it when I was really close to closing the gripper I was working on, and didn't mess with that gripper for a few workouts to test the SW. I jumped up in weight on it-maybe 10lbs. More than I was using on it when I was close. And wasn't any closer to my goal gripper.

For sure it will strengthen the last two

fingers...and that's a positive.

Heavy forced closes with a filed gripper is much better than the SW, IMO. Heck, Joe built it so he didn't have to ruin his grippers. And those forced closes in the filed postion are the best for power in a shorter time-frame.

Just find your training barometer; start low volume and build up to where you stall in progress, then you know where you need to stay as far as how much you should do. Then you can really work on quality of the time and effort.

I started holding filed grippers shut for 5 seconds; then 8; then 10; ....and when I went to over 20, my body said to stop. Gains went away...so now I know where I should stay- 5 to 10 seconds work for me.

Joe and I talked about this; he recommended no more than 5. But I kept going: he was right! He does recommend using as much volume as you can and still make progress. If you are making gains doing 5 forced closes, try 10 and see if you still gain...it may work even better! Or you'll stall...at least you'll know.

Sorry EJ, I know this is not entirely SW info. But I think it can help someone.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Hubgeezer

I received the Secret Weapon from my daughter around 2002. She bought it from Joe Kinney, and I think it was one of the last ones he made.

Used it 2 or 3 times over the years (giving it 2 or 3 weeks at a time), didn't like it, decided to sell it. Mighty Joe would have purchased it as a collector's piece, but I had no receipt or proof that it came from Joe Kinney.

When I purchased mine from Joe, I sent him a postal money order if memory serves me correctly. I also have a handwritten letter from him thanking me for my purchase along with an autographed picture of him bursting a beer can and instructions for installation using the lag bolts that were provided. I am going from memeory here but I can likely readliy dig this stuff up. That should be proof enough. Mighty Joe- are you out there?
Steve I am not interested in selling mine, now that I am using it. Are looking to sell yours?
Link to post
Share on other sites

I like 10 "count" negatives with extended handle trex, which is probably about 5 seconds. Bail if it starts to open. I think super heavy negatives can't be good, just past what you can close are useful.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I received the Secret Weapon from my daughter around 2002. She bought it from Joe Kinney, and I think it was one of the last ones he made.

Used it 2 or 3 times over the years (giving it 2 or 3 weeks at a time), didn't like it, decided to sell it. Mighty Joe would have purchased it as a collector's piece, but I had no receipt or proof that it came from Joe Kinney.

When I purchased mine from Joe, I sent him a postal money order if memory serves me correctly. I also have a handwritten letter from him thanking me for my purchase along with an autographed picture of him bursting a beer can and instructions for installation using the lag bolts that were provided. I am going from memeory here but I can likely readliy dig this stuff up. That should be proof enough. Mighty Joe- are you out there?
Steve I am not interested in selling mine, now that I am using it. Are looking to sell yours?

I would consider selling it for the right price. PM me if you know someone who is interested. Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Squeezus

I wouldn't use it. All of the injuries I see and hear about, stemming from negatives and overloads, have really turned me off to that specific kind of work. I am of the philosophy that gripper strength can be increased without using those risky techniques, and to me it is not worth the risk of losing everything, just because I am too impatient.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Chuck Hench

I like 10 "count" negatives with extended handle trex, which is probably about 5 seconds. Bail if it starts to open. I think super heavy negatives can't be good, just past what you can close are useful.

I think that's the ticket right there. As opposed to buying dozens of grippers sperated by a few pounds each, you can use the SW to add slightly more weight each time all up to max or slightly above your current strength level if doing negatives until you've made the wide jump from one gripper to the next using few grippers with big gaps in ratings. The idea here is training for a bigger goal gripper imo and not making 100 grippers goal grippers. Much cheaper and if used in this manner it should be just as effective. Treating it like a powerlifting program in a way. Bump the weight slightly each week in cycles

Link to post
Share on other sites
Jared Goguen

I wouldn't use it. All of the injuries I see and hear about, stemming from negatives and overloads, have really turned me off to that specific kind of work. I am of the philosophy that gripper strength can be increased without using those risky techniques, and to me it is not worth the risk of losing everything, just because I am too impatient.

I guess I don't look at it in terms of being impatient or not.

I use a slingshot when im done benching to get one more set in, would you call that being impatient? I think of it as just another tool in the box to aid in getting stronger.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Squeezus

I wouldn't use it. All of the injuries I see and hear about, stemming from negatives and overloads, have really turned me off to that specific kind of work. I am of the philosophy that gripper strength can be increased without using those risky techniques, and to me it is not worth the risk of losing everything, just because I am too impatient.

I guess I don't look at it in terms of being impatient or not.

I use a slingshot when im done benching to get one more set in, would you call that being impatient? I think of it as just another tool in the box to aid in getting stronger.

I wouldn't compare them to the slingshot, necessarily. It would be more like loading up a weight beyond your max on the bench, unracking it and holding it at right above your sticking point until you failed. You might gain strength from that, but, being crushed aside, you would be wreaking havoc on your connective tissues.

By impatience I mean using methods that increase injury likelihood (negatives, frequent heavy singles, heavy digit isolation). They will build strength, but also carry an elevated risk.

I'm not in a hurry. I'm 29 years old. I want to be crushing grippers well into my retirement, so I will minimize risk and use the safest training methodologies. To me, that's patience.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
Jared Goguen

Well put Squeezus, I don't think a day goes by where I don't learn something from y'all on here.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Alawadhi

Don't Sir, directly tell me what I think. I really don't care for you to speak for me. Thank you. I paid for his training tapes which encourage severe negatives both first and re -edited version and I have personally told you what I suggested for training, the potential pitfalls of" extreme training" which several others have suggested this intensity Damage of negative movement produces. Thank you ,Richard Sorin

Not trying to make an issue here but Richard Sorin deserves more respect than this guys. I see nowadays when he says something another come and tell him this and that. They don't even like Sorin talking about what happens in his gym as a new grip feat from new people. Weird thing is Sorin has been Sponsoring this forum longer than most people are members here. Comon dude he deserves more respect than to indirectly tell him shut up. If anything has anything to tell him just say it in a better way. Not just to Mr. Sorin but any member. Everyone deserves to be respected unless you think otherwise.

As for the SW, I use it from time time (not now as I have been fighting an injury ) and when I feel it will open I use my other hand to hold it and lower the handle. Fighting it will be bad and I did injure my left hand pinky while trying so hard to hold my 175 bbe shut. It's the same concept of the SW.

My pinky is healing so no big deal hopefully.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
EJ Livesey

Don't Sir, directly tell me what I think. I really don't care for you to speak for me. Thank you. I paid for his training tapes which encourage severe negatives both first and re -edited version and I have personally told you what I suggested for training, the potential pitfalls of" extreme training" which several others have suggested this intensity Damage of negative movement produces. Thank you ,Richard Sorin

Not trying to make an issue here but Richard Sorin deserves more respect than this guys. I see nowadays when he says something another come and tell him this and that. They don't even like Sorin talking about what happens in his gym as a new grip feat from new people. Weird thing is Sorin has been Sponsoring this forum longer than most people are members here. Comon dude he deserves more respect than to indirectly tell him shut up. If anything has anything to tell him just say it in a better way. Not just to Mr. Sorin but any member. Everyone deserves to be respected unless you think otherwise.

You can't be serious here. I really hope you read the entire thread and just not the second page. I don't see how there was any disrespect. I asked for relavant info and got a comparison between two people. Then some passive aggressive response which I answered back passive aggressively. It takes respect to get respect. But I don't see how me or anyone else here disrespected anyone. This is the internet, things get misconstrued.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Jared Goguen

I had a feeling this thread would only make it too page two before the conversation went this way.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Squeezus

...Aaaaand getting back on topic, has anyone here ever considered building a "safety catch" of sorts that can keep the handles of the SW from opening more than a few millimeters? Like maybe a block of wood to set under the handle or weights so that when you fail on the negative, your hand only gets opened a very small amount? I feel like you could get all of the value that individuals like John McCarter get out of the SW (stopping the lift as soon as the handles separate) without having the risk of your hand being pulled wide open into a vulnerable position.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

...Aaaaand getting back on topic, has anyone here ever considered building a "safety catch" of sorts that can keep the handles of the SW from opening more than a few millimeters? Like maybe a block of wood to set under the handle or weights so that when you fail on the negative, your hand only gets opened a very small amount? I feel like you could get all of the value that individuals like John McCarter get out of the SW (stopping the lift as soon as the handles separate) without having the risk of your hand being pulled wide open into a vulnerable position.

This is an excellent idea which could be used on those extended handle grippers as well. Think about a small collar that would fit on the base of the top, or short handle. The collar would have a hook or a loop that would keep the bottom handle "set" at a few millimeters, 1/4" etcera. The loop should be able to swivel around so you can bring up your weight, the hook falls into place, ready to save your hand. It would actually be a simple build if you have a decent shop set up. Great idea, man.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
EJ Livesey

...Aaaaand getting back on topic, has anyone here ever considered building a "safety catch" of sorts that can keep the handles of the SW from opening more than a few millimeters? Like maybe a block of wood to set under the handle or weights so that when you fail on the negative, your hand only gets opened a very small amount? I feel like you could get all of the value that individuals like John McCarter get out of the SW (stopping the lift as soon as the handles separate) without having the risk of your hand being pulled wide open into a vulnerable position.

I really like this idea. I have a few things in mind. Maybe wrap both handles together in 550 cord? I've seen some huge master locks that may fit over both handles. I bet I could come up with something. I don't think a worm clamp would be strong enough.

Edited by EJ Livesey
Link to post
Share on other sites
Anthony C.

...Aaaaand getting back on topic, has anyone here ever considered building a "safety catch" of sorts that can keep the handles of the SW from opening more than a few millimeters? Like maybe a block of wood to set under the handle or weights so that when you fail on the negative, your hand only gets opened a very small amount? I feel like you could get all of the value that individuals like John McCarter get out of the SW (stopping the lift as soon as the handles separate) without having the risk of your hand being pulled wide open into a vulnerable position.

This is an excellent idea which could be used on those extended handle grippers as well. Think about a small collar that would fit on the base of the top, or short handle. The collar would have a hook or a loop that would keep the bottom handle "set" at a few millimeters, 1/4" etcera. The loop should be able to swivel around so you can bring up your weight, the hook falls into place, ready to save your hand. It would actually be a simple build if you have a decent shop set up. Great idea, man.

You mean a choker?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
richcottrell

Why not just use a chain on the loading pin?

Set the length so the weight is only off the ground when the tool is almost closed. That way your hand is never opened 100% by the weight

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not just use a chain on the loading pin?

Set the length so the weight is only off the ground when the tool is almost closed. That way your hand is never opened 100% by the weight

For the win.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hubgeezer

Doesn't seem like you would need sophisticated devices to keep the handles from opening too much. Something called "the brain" ought to be enough...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy policies.