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Why Is No One Closing A 4?


mobsterone

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bencrush

Tell me it ain't so - grippers vary?? :)

Sorry I couldn't resist.

In defense of IronMind, I should say that the 252lber was an old steel-handled monstrosity. So the newer ones were pretty much in that 215lb to 225lb range for the most part.

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I think I should have included 'cos they don't think they can'. I'm simply astounded at the lack of self belief some have displayed... wow! Let's start with a little history. Joe Weider et al used to

I think the reason somebody has yet to do is because it's really hard

Spurred via my Ironmind inbox with a message from Joe Kinney about 'going for it' I mused this morning over the lack, or so it seems, of current attempts at closing a four. I'm well aware of the subje

EJ Livesey

Don't you think the rules for certification are a bit steep?

I mean, being a certified #4 closer has to do with luck also, first you have a set of rules then suddently the rules changes dramatically :huh:

So being strong in the right time really does matter. I feel that certification on GHP grippers are far more interesting and relevant.

If someone would certify on the CoC#4 that performance would rank much higher than the other five.

Just my two cents.

IronMind has their own agenda. They want to make money not see guys succeed. With all the new #3 certs I wouldn't be surprised if they tried a new rule change like no chalk or something stupid like that. Edited by EJ Livesey
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Chuck Hench

Don't you think the rules for certification are a bit steep?

I mean, being a certified #4 closer has to do with luck also, first you have a set of rules then suddently the rules changes dramatically :huh:

So being strong in the right time really does matter. I feel that certification on GHP grippers are far more interesting and relevant.

If someone would certify on the CoC#4 that performance would rank much higher than the other five.

Just my two cents.

IronMind has their own agenda. They want to make money not see guys succeed. With all the new #3 certs I wouldn't be surprised if they tried a new rule change like no chalk or something stupid like that.
Paranoid much? Playing field is plenty even with chalk and it is used in all strength sports. I don't see that happening.
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Mike Sharkey

Don't you think the rules for certification are a bit steep?

I mean, being a certified #4 closer has to do with luck also, first you have a set of rules then suddently the rules changes dramatically :huh:

So being strong in the right time really does matter. I feel that certification on GHP grippers are far more interesting and relevant.

If someone would certify on the CoC#4 that performance would rank much higher than the other five.

Just my two cents.

IronMind has their own agenda. They want to make money not see guys succeed. With all the new #3 certs I wouldn't be surprised if they tried a new rule change like no chalk or something stupid like that.
Paranoid much? Playing field is plenty even with chalk and it is used in all strength sports. I don't see that happening.

You should check your history

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Mike Sharkey

I am fully aware of all previous changes to the rules.

Doesn't seem so.

The legality of chalk for bending is only recently clear. There was a period where you didn't see people chalking. Look at Adam's cert. Or Rinderle.

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EJ Livesey

I am fully aware of all previous changes to the rules.

Doesn't seem so.

The legality of chalk for bending is only recently clear. There was a period where you didn't see people chalking. Look at Adam's cert. Or Rinderle.

I'm with Mike, Chuck you need to check your history. Chalk wasn't allowed on my Cert. After my cert IM tried to DQ anyone that want to bend DO style. IM doesn't answer to anyone and the fact that chalk is allowed in all other sports has no bearing on IM rules. Maybe I should dust off my tin-foil hat, huh Chuck?

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Chuck Hench

Victim mentality. Someone can either close a gripper or they can't. There is no way they will take chalk away. I'll eat crow in front of everybody if they do.

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Mike Sharkey

Victim mentality. Someone can either close a gripper or they can't. There is no way they will take chalk away. I'll eat crow in front of everybody if they do.

Not sure you realize the level of strength of the man you're referring to as a victim smh

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Chuck Hench

I'm not sure what that has to do this? It is a matter of differing opinion is all. I've been following EJ's YouTube channel for over a year now. I respect him and you. There is no need to keep treating me like my opinion doesn't matter because I'm a new guy.

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Chuck Hench

If you guys honestly believe that IM is out to get you then don't buy their products or certify on them. I'm not going to try to stop you. I can roll with changes to the rules and adapt if need be.

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EJ Livesey

Chuck, in your humble opinion can you please explain what exactly you meant by "victim mentality"? What exactly are you referring to?

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Chuck Hench

What I meant was the feeling like a company is out to stop a person by changing the rules just for the sake of preventing certification when the rule changes allow certification to still be attainable.

Edited by Chuck Hench
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EJ Livesey

If you guys honestly believe that IM is out to get you then don't buy their products or certify on them. I'm not going to try to stop you. I can roll with changes to the rules and adapt if need be.

And let's be clear, I never said IM was out to get any one. I said they have an agenda to make money. Make certs harder, people need to practice and buy IM products. It's business 101. You are taking this to a whole new level.

What I meant was the feeling like a company is out to stop a person by changing the rules just for the sake of preventing certification when the rule changes are still attainable.

Yes they are trying to make it as hard as possible and stopping just anyone from certing. The #4 and gold nail is impossible for the average person. I can't help but to think IM made these products as a joke.

I'm not crying or bitching about anything. I will adapt and cert according to IM rules. All I was saying is too many people cert, the rules will change. It happened in the past, what's to stop it from happening again.

Chalk was prohibited. Then allowed. DO was allowed, then almost prohibited. Leathers were allowed, then IM pads only. MM sets were allowed, then CCS only. Any witness was allowed, then IM sanctioned witnesses only.

Edited by EJ Livesey
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Chuck Hench

Possibly but I think they made the changes because previous versions of the rules were poorly written allowing for ways around them. GHP seems to have had pretty consistent rules from the get go that were more clear and less open to interpretation. More people go after the IM certs and they want it to be a legit process so changes had to made. Perhaps they should have had a lawyer write them from the get go haha.

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Mike Sharkey

If you guys honestly believe that IM is out to get you then don't buy their products or certify on them. I'm not going to try to stop you. I can roll with changes to the rules and adapt if need be.

And let's be clear, I never said IM was out to get any one. I said they have an agenda to make money. Make certs harder, people need to practice and buy IM products. It's business 101. You are taking this to a whole new level.

What I meant was the feeling like a company is out to stop a person by changing the rules just for the sake of preventing certification when the rule changes are still attainable.

Yes they are trying to make it as hard as possible and stopping just anyone from certing. The #4 and gold nail is impossible for the average person. I can't help but to think IM made these products as a joke.

I'm not crying or bitching about anything. I will adapt and cert according to IM rules. All I was saying is too many people cert, the rules will change. It happened in the past, what's to stop it from happening again.

This has some truth. The gold nail will be certed and long before the 4. However, it was not created by a bender. Though EJ or Tommy can adapt to the length, they would never choose it as the best way to test someone's bending. It was created to frustrate benders of the DO style. Ironically (modern def.), the nail is so difficult it can only be bent DO.

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Chuck Hench

Thinking about it sports of all sorts have had changes over the years. Players of those sports have no choice but to adapt or quit. The same applies here.

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Mike Sharkey

Thinking about it sports of all sorts have had changes over the years. Players of those sports have no choice but to adapt or quit. The same applies here.

Personally, I have no problems with rule changes. It's simply the evolution of the sport. That's not what we're talking about.

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Chuck Hench

If you guys honestly believe that IM is out to get you then don't buy their products or certify on them. I'm not going to try to stop you. I can roll with changes to the rules and adapt if need be.

And let's be clear, I never said IM was out to get any one. I said they have an agenda to make money. Make certs harder, people need to practice and buy IM products. It's business 101. You are taking this to a whole new level.

What I meant was the feeling like a company is out to stop a person by changing the rules just for the sake of preventing certification when the rule changes are still attainable.

Yes they are trying to make it as hard as possible and stopping just anyone from certing. The #4 and gold nail is impossible for the average person. I can't help but to think IM made these products as a joke.

I'm not crying or bitching about anything. I will adapt and cert according to IM rules. All I was saying is too many people cert, the rules will change. It happened in the past, what's to stop it from happening again.

This has some truth. The gold nail will be certed and long before the 4. However, it was not created by a bender. Though EJ or Tommy can adapt to the length, they would never choose it as the best way to test someone's bending. It was created to frustrate benders of the DO style. Ironically (modern def.), the nail is so difficult it can only be bent DO.

Actually my understanding is the #4 was originally created as a joke of sorts, never expecting anyone to close it. Perhaps the same can be said for the gold nail.
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Chuck Hench

Also I don't think it was quantities of people certifying I believe it was inequality in the differences in the way people were doing it. Quantities probably just had them putting the process under the microscope.

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Fist of Fury

If you're going to change the rules and make it much more difficult then you should also put all the names that certified with the old rules on a different list. In my opinion.

IM certification doesn't interest me because of this, it's not a fair game, simple as that.

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EJ Livesey

If you're going to change the rules and make it much more difficult then you should also put all the names that certified with the old rules on a different list. In my opinion.

IM certification doesn't interest me because of this, it's not a fair game, simple as that.

you beat me to it

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Well, well, it seems like I'm not the only one here who has an opinion :)

I can understand both points. On the other hand they want to make money and keep the prestige status of their certs. They have done some things which aren't very wise. But on the other hand they surely don't want people to fail or keep them off from certing. Is it possible that the rules have stabilized as the sport has matured? Necessary evolution growing from the changed situation, but not dictated by greed or survival of the strongest?

But surely their situation is self-contradictory. They want to spread the grip sport and their certs. But if it became popular, people would notice that #3 cert isn't such a big deal. Hundreds of new certs per year, who would care anymore? In the past there just weren't enough people who had trained grippers for us to know how difficult it really is, the reality now is less glamorous than it looked back then. In my estimation, based on gut feeling without any hard evidence, any guy with average genes could cert #3 with some years of dedicated training. Maybe 10 years and keeping grippers first priority, but it would be doable. If people who now are doing other strength sports would all be interested we would gather many talented guys who would do it in one or two years. It's the same question: Why is no one closing a 4? Why there aren't no more #3 certs? Because it's not interesting enough. No money, no girls, no power. No admiration or respect outside of the small community.

So, paradoxically, if #3 cert would become more valuable it would become less valuable. But #4 is another thing because it really is hard, even if there were 10 people in the world closing it with CCS.

Edited by Elmo
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Rick Walker

It isn't too hard to see they are a money driven machine. Good for IM, they seem to think they have the market cornered and can do what ever they want, to include bad mouthing dead men (such as the late owner of PDA who dared to say IM grippers vary), Richard Sorin (pretty much the father of grip and the reason IM grippers became popular, Lord knows Kinney was a ghost and most can relate to Sorin far more than the smoke that surrounds Kinney), and Wade Gillingham who dared to start his own brand of grippers (egads!!!! Competition!!!!!) Which are, IMO, a far superior gripper.

Their products are over priced for a reason. I cant help but think maybe some jealousy stirs between IM and Sorinex and hence the bad blood. Sorin outifts NCAA and NFL weight rooms. IM outfits the garages of those who want to blow their budget on set of squat stands that can be fabricated for $200 (less if you the equipment and the know how).

IM hates the Gripboard. Calls those who post on here numerous names, baits people to come over to his forum to discuss stuff so he has backup and the freedom to attack you at all angles, has attacked Bill Piche numerous times for his gripper programs and the names of said programs. Why does he sponsor it then? You dont want to bite the hand that feeds you and lets face it, the Gripboard pays his bills for him.

I dont buy anything from them or support IM in anyway. The last remaining grip tools I had of theirs have been sold. I would sell my hip squat belt as quite frankly Spud Inc. makes a better one for less, but some other dude on here has had his for sale for a while now and it hasnt sold.

Oh, Hubgeezer, I will still sleep fine at night knowing you dont buy what I said about a setup.

I am sure I broke all kind of rules with this post but f*ck it. Censor away or ban me. Do what you gotta do.

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mobsterone

Possibly but I think they made the changes because previous versions of the rules were poorly written allowing for ways around them. GHP seems to have had pretty consistent rules from the get go that were more clear and less open to interpretation. More people go after the IM certs and they want it to be a legit process so changes had to made. Perhaps they should have had a lawyer write them from the get go haha.

GHP created their rules AFTER IM modified theirs. Rules have changed in David Horne's events. I've, for the most part, agreed. But not always. Such is life.

Any anger, frustration and dislike should be used to motivate a great handle grinding gripper closing session (or nail banding lol).

If you guys honestly believe that IM is out to get you then don't buy their products or certify on them. I'm not going to try to stop you. I can roll with changes to the rules and adapt if need be.

And let's be clear, I never said IM was out to get any one. I said they have an agenda to make money. Make certs harder, people need to practice and buy IM products. It's business 101. You are taking this to a whole new level.

What I meant was the feeling like a company is out to stop a person by changing the rules just for the sake of preventing certification when the rule changes are still attainable.

Yes they are trying to make it as hard as possible and stopping just anyone from certing. The #4 and gold nail is impossible for the average person. I can't help but to think IM made these products as a joke.

I'm not crying or bitching about anything. I will adapt and cert according to IM rules. All I was saying is too many people cert, the rules will change. It happened in the past, what's to stop it from happening again.

Chalk was prohibited. Then allowed. DO was allowed, then almost prohibited. Leathers were allowed, then IM pads only. MM sets were allowed, then CCS only. Any witness was allowed, then IM sanctioned witnesses only.

As indeed they ought to be. I have no wish to be average. I want to be elite.

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