Arne Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 John Grün (Marx) from Luxembourg died on this date, November 3, 1912. Already in 1909 in Holland did John Grün suffered from a serious stroke and among others things lost his voice. After this tragedy he did never come back as strongman again. During his last years he did gradualy lose his health and strength and finally died in Luxembourg. Ref. Zeimet, F., 1989: John Grün, Muskelkraft und Welterfogl. Band 3 der Luxemburger Biographien. (A superb book about John Grün ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 Arne, Is that book available in English? Can you confirm for me that Marx was born Aug 27, 1868? Also is there anything in the book to confirm Inch's claim that Marx in his last years used to squeeze the nurses hands and they would pretend he was hurting them with his still powerful grip? Does the book offer a chronology of his strength performances? Finally, I had heard he died in London; this is incorrect according to this book? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danjo Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 I'm also interested in Marx and his stats. Did they think that the stroke was due to his feats of strength? Does the book go into what sort of diet etc. he was on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest woody36 Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Joe, Here's Houdini's recolections of Marx,Tom Black has made mention of the fact Houdini places Marx's weight in the region of 300 pounds.I wondered how a man of Houdini's calibre could be lead to believe he weighed so much? is there any referance to him becoming heavier as time passed on. http://www.magica.lu/johngrun.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 As of 1905 when Marx was still breaking horseshoes, his weight was in the 235-242 ln range. Arne tells us that in 1909 Marx began his physical problems, and began to lose strength, so we can assume that Houdini saw Marx in his prime, which so far as I know was nothing close to 300 lbs. Indeed, as you know from Super Athletes, DPW said that Marx was almost all bone and muscle at 235-242. Perhaps Houdini was not a good judge of such matters? I have not seen Tom's site that you inserted, so will check it out. Hopefully Arne will post more details. Marx died at age 44, if he was born in 1868. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest woody36 Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Joe, Reading through my question again,i forgot to add that Tom thought that there was no way Marx could be the 300 pounds Houdini mentions.This is what lead to my question of him maybe gaining weight in later life. Hope there was no confusion. Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Woody, Just read the web reference that Tom included from Houdini. While entertaining, it is not of much help. Verbs are very important when describing lifting ability, so when Houdini offers that Marx "...juggled hundreds, and toyed with thousands, of pounds as a child plays with a rattle." one wonders how much Marx could have lifted when not playing around, tens of thousands? This is not meant to disparge Marx, but to illustrate how some descriptions of feats are worthless. I have never seen a child hoist a rattle in a harness lift, and then heard the parent describe that scene as play. Willoughby would never resort to such loose descriptions, nor would Gaudreau, and we need to maintain their standards. Just as we require scales to be accurate, or PDA's calibrations to be acurate, so we should demand accuracy of description in lifting, and while Houdini can be forgiven for his lack of knowledge in these matters, it is not helpful when he offers that Marx 'must have weighed' nearly 300 lbs (apparently because he 'looked like he did'?). Perhaps someday our sport can imitate Houdini and 'escape' from the straighjacket of incorrect history. Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I think it is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 I agree with you Joe, I only put the section that Houdini wrote because it was interesting that Houdini would be writing anything about Marx, and also that Houdini was known as a big skeptic and was impressed with Marx. I guess so impressed that he added quite a few pounds to his weight! Actually, I'm not even sure if Willoughby was right with the 235 to 242 pounds. I'm not sure how tall Marx was, but he does not look over 6 feet, and those numbers would be high for someone under 6 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Posted November 4, 2001 Author Share Posted November 4, 2001 Roark This book is unfortunately only available in german. The book tells that he was born August 27, 1868. There is nothing in the book about "the squeeze-incidents on the hospital". The book offer many of his strength performances. John Grün's wife died in 1911 i London and was buried there and in the end of January 1912 a dying John Grün moved back to Luxembourg. J have found following about his weight and measurements: length 180 cm (5'9"), weight 100 - 106 kg (220 - 233 lbs), chest 128 cm (50.4"), neck 47 cm (18 1/2"), upper arm 47 cm (18 1/2"), forearm 37 cm (14.6"), thigh 66 cm (26") and calf 43 cm (16.9"). This facts seems to be realistic for me. My father-in-law even tells me that his barbells and dumbbells and another weights still exist and are exhibited in a school in Bad Mondorf in Luxembourg. J can hardly wait to visit Luxembourg again and put my hands on his weights. Roark, is it possible for me to get your e-mail adress? Danjo According to the book, he ate nutritious food but in small portions, his alcohol consumtion was minimal and he didn´t smoke. Arne Persson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Arne, Thanks for the details! Hopefully Marx's two thick handled dumbels will be among his artifacts when you visit. Please get photos. I have sent you a message thru the board messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Posted November 5, 2001 Author Share Posted November 5, 2001 Roark I'd send you an e-mail with some scanned pictures from the book but I got it back with the following error message (Returned mail: Service unavailable). Do you have an another e-mail adress? Arne Persson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 Arne, Did you want all those smileys in your post? I can fix them in the moderator mode if you would like, they are really confusing. Just put a space between the quote and the " )" Example with no space: "), Example with space: " ), As far as the measurements, a 50.4" and a 18.5" arm, he didn't look that big too me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Posted November 5, 2001 Author Share Posted November 5, 2001 Tom Please REMOVE ALL the smileys. Thank you! Arne Persson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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