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Comparing Bones Of Human To Big Primates


Arne

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lifesnotfair

Well I think there is more than bone shape and density that affects strength. The bones themselves may not look that much more impressive, but what about the tendons/ligaments, and muscles, and their insertion points? Even in a human if the insertion points were somehow changed to proved better leverage you would see a dramatic strength increase.

I do love Nat Geo and the like and have always been a fan of animals and videos/documentaries about them; best I've seen on film I suppose would be numerous clips were gorillas get angry and with a "slapping" motion they knock down small trees... now I don't know about you guys, but even seemingly small trees wouldn't fall for a single "slap" from any mortal man. Heck, it took Jean Claude Van Damme like a billion kicks in the movie Kickboxer while it takes a single slap from one of these animals to knock a tree of the same size... :D I'd say they are definitely stronger. I remember reading stories about zookeepers telling how those tyres that they hang from a rope (entertainment for the animals, I supposed) have been torn and twisted at times by some of these animals. Now these are obviously stories not even from the witness, but if they are true... I don't see any human doing literally ANYTHING with a tyre. Would love to see some video of course.

Edit: a somewhat interesting read. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/02/how_strong_is_a_chimpanzee.html

Edited by Arturo
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Most likely mine would look like the gorilla's. Not sure about you and brian but I suspect that they'd somewhat resemble the structure of a platypus forearm.

If you care to wrestle a lowland gorilla, I will happily watch with popcorn and whiskey.

Here you can clearly see the idividual difference in the biceps muscles insertion point (Tuberositas bicipitis radii) on the proximal radius bone. I hope you can see which are the two strong individua

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Josh O'Dell

Aps brains do not regulate strengh the same as humans

the have less control over there power. Also since they are wild

there adrinaline is easier accessed unlike humans as we only

trigger this in fight or flight events, They also send more electric

Current to there long dense muscle fiber. There is a video on youtube

of silverbacks easily breaking bannana trees.

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That's a great picture, Arne! It would be interesting to see how a "Brian Shaw" forearm structure would compare to someone like me, or Yori, here on the board. Sorry, Yori. Lol.

Most likely mine would look like the gorilla's. Not sure about you and brian but I suspect that they'd somewhat resemble the structure of a platypus forearm.
But like a super strong platypus, right?

You're correct. And you even get talons as a package deal.

A few things I noticed about bone structure as compared in above pic.

1. Humans have less flared-out forearm bones than other apes do. This probably affects tendon placement greatly both in upper arm/forearm and forearm/hand links.

2. Humans have a longer humerus and shorter radial and ulna. I'd bet the shorter bones (and also muscles) in the forearm allow smaller, more controlled movements to be made. The trade off is macromovements and hand strength.

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Aps brains do not regulate strengh the same as humans

the have less control over there power. Also since they are wild

there adrinaline is easier accessed unlike humans as we only

trigger this in fight or flight events, They also send more electric

Current to there long dense muscle fiber. There is a video on youtube

of silverbacks easily breaking bannana trees.

Who says they can't control their strength the same humans do? I very much doubt that, since it seems unlogical to me. Their babies aren't regularly torn to pieces by them, are they?

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Josh O'Dell

Aps brains do not regulate strengh the same as humansthe have less control over there power. Also since they are wildthere adrinaline is easier accessed unlike humans as we onlytrigger this in fight or flight events, They also send more electricCurrent to there long dense muscle fiber. There is a video on youtubeof silverbacks easily breaking bannana trees.

Who says they can't control their strength the same humans do? I very much doubt that, since it seems unlogical to me. Their babies aren't regularly torn to pieces by them, are they?
Here i will assist you in research its very simple.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2Fm%2Fstory%3Fid%3D16696826&ei=GnIIU4HpCYPlyQGd6oHYDA&usg=AFQjCNHTVPkcYoAn00NNpK056B5F_A542g&sig2=npB73yU8kQPHYbjqLXp26g

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2F2009%2F03%2F090330200829.htm&ei=GnIIU4HpCYPlyQGd6oHYDA&usg=AFQjCNHu19E0FZamcYMrB2REYrBgUl8z3A&sig2=zfKq9-OOoVWpZ9Yha7JL6w

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Here you can clearly see the idividual difference in the biceps muscles insertion point (Tuberositas bicipitis radii) on the proximal radius bone. I hope you can see which are the two strong individuals here? :) These four radius are from the Middle Ages from Sweden.

I have more photos if you are interested? :)

post-234-0-33963200-1393080930_thumb.jpg

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Hubgeezer

Perhaps the most respected strength historian, ever, the late David Willoughby, author of "The Super Athletes", wrote a book, I think it was his last one, "All About Gorillas". Hardback, 1978, you can pick up a used copy cheap on the Internet. He goes into the physical characteristics and stats more than anything. Lots of illustrations. It is dated, as is anything more than a few years old, when it comes to speculation on the origin of our ancestors (even a chapter on Bigfoot). But, Gorillas? I am sure there are factoids in there that you won't find anyplace else.

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Aps brains do not regulate strengh the same as humansthe have less control over there power. Also since they are wildthere adrinaline is easier accessed unlike humans as we onlytrigger this in fight or flight events, They also send more electricCurrent to there long dense muscle fiber. There is a video on youtubeof silverbacks easily breaking bannana trees.

Who says they can't control their strength the same humans do? I very much doubt that, since it seems unlogical to me. Their babies aren't regularly torn to pieces by them, are they?
Here i will assist you in research its very simple.http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2Fm%2Fstory%3Fid%3D16696826&ei=GnIIU4HpCYPlyQGd6oHYDA&usg=AFQjCNHTVPkcYoAn00NNpK056B5F_A542g&sig2=npB73yU8kQPHYbjqLXp26ghttp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2F2009%2F03%2F090330200829.htm&ei=GnIIU4HpCYPlyQGd6oHYDA&usg=AFQjCNHu19E0FZamcYMrB2

REYrBgUl8z3A&sig2=zfKq9-OOoVWpZ9Yha7JL6w

Thanks for reminding me of the simplicity of google... I'll keep that comment in mind ;)
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Volko Krull

Hi folks,

of course it doesn't make much sense to ask how much a chimp could lift overhead; their anatomy is simply very ill-suited

to any task the requires handling heavy weights while standing upright. Their capabilities when standing on all fours or hanging

from their hands is a different issue, though. In the zoo of the city I live in, they put up a wooden board next to the indoor part of

the chimp exhibit to which they fastened all kinds of metal pieces mangled by the apes there. I'm telling you, there are some things

on there that almost defy belief; sadly, I didn't have a camera on me to take a picture. I remember there was a padlock with a stainless

steel shackle about 5/16" thick had basically been torn apart. Even though I had read about primate strength all over the internet, I was

flabbergasted by what I saw on that board.

While chimps may not make an overly impressive showing in strength tests that require one to stand upright, the strength they can exert

in pulling movements of all kinds with their arms and with their fingers and wrists is far, far above ours. With gorillas it's the same principle,

but the gap is much larger.

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MIGHTYSAXON

Brian is also 3x the size of an avg. chimp. I agree fully on the 4x stronger because the avg. man. can only lift like 200-250lb so brian is 4x stronger than an avg man as well as a chimp. a gorilla (MT) is said to be 4-7x stronger than the worlds strongest man. which would equal 20x the avg. man. The Gorilla could not DO a DEADLIFT but put a 2" steel round in front of him and I bet he destroys it or tosses and 300lb sewer grate like a Frisbee which would take 4-7brians to accomplish. Their anatomy doesn't allow them to do standardized lifts. I do believe the evidence though. The "Strongest" men in the world are feeble compared to true animals. you could do a bench press and I bet a gorilla could do a small car which would be 4-7x the strongest raw bench ever:).

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Compare the enormous size of the humerus from the gorilla (third from left) with femurs (from left) human, 2:nd from left a massive femur from a Neandertal man and a gorilla at far right. :)

post-234-0-13979300-1393175100_thumb.jpg

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Josh O'Dell

Of coarse a big man is strong, But i can tell you by having a giant

strong brother at 6''9" and 295lbs and at my teen years i was 6Ft

and 155lbs i had to make my self stronger mentally and i did

thats why i am so strong cause i had a reason to be. We can be strong

as we want but we have to dig deep and pull the strengh out we normally

dont activate, gotta get PUMPED like a wild ap jump up and down scream

whatever it takes to bring the inner beast out and then you will be stonger.

Compare the enormous size of the humerus from the gorilla (third from left) with femurs (from left) human, 2:nd from left a massive femur from a Neandertal man and a gorilla at far right. :)

wow
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Volko Krull

@ChimpGrip

Concerning the BB World Class and the Millenium Dumbbell: I don't think an orangutan could close a heavy gripper due to its

enormously long hand. I wouldn't be surprised however if an orangutan could pick up the Millenium and hold pretty much for as

long as it wants to.

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robertmiller67

Very interesting conversation gentleman... I really enjoyed it!

Now my .02... apes swing from tree's all day while we walk on our feet & use our hands as needed.

Swing from tree's with there hands guys... who do you think has the strongest grip strength!? No comparison... not to mention they're wild beast that could tear us limb from limb!! Esp the gorillas... forget about it!

The defense rest your honor.

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Mightysaxon, what "evidence" is there that proves gorillas are 4-7x stronger than the strongest men?

And no, a gorilla tearing something up does not count.

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Few reasons why gorillas are stronger than us(from my opinion and research)

  • bigger bones and bigger muscles
  • more energy to use on muscles and not on the brain
  • more efficient muscles
  • faster biological methods of transferring strength through slightly different muscle structures and using it for whatever situation it is in

Also arnt gorillas herbivores? interesting fact to consider..

post-23364-0-17566100-1393538681_thumb.j

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Stephen Ruby

Mightysaxon, what "evidence" is there that proves gorillas are 4-7x stronger than the strongest men?

And no, a gorilla tearing something up does not count.

Your not going to be able to really get a monkey to perform any type of strength feat to its full capacity, you can only study the biological differences and based on those reasons we have determined that they are much stronger pound for pound. Like mentioned also we have a lot more motor neurons also which allows for a lot more precision and control of are muscles, apes like chimps do not allowing for less control but more strength. Compounded with other reasons listed its easy to see how pound for pound they are much stronger. Evolutionary stand point having that more fine control is much greater then the more brute force.

JoshW pretty much mentioned all the reasons I could think of also. Now this is just comparing a chimp which are stronger already, a mountain gorilla can get up close to 500lbs at 5'9 there is just no comparison what so ever.

Edited by Stephen Ruby
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Josh O'Dell

Mightysaxon, what "evidence" is there that proves gorillas are 4-7x stronger than the strongest men?

And no, a gorilla tearing something up does not count.

Your profile picture shpuld be

Proof enough, look at that thing i bet you would not wrestle it? Or shake its hand..

Mightysaxon, what "evidence" is there that proves gorillas are 4-7x stronger than the strongest men?

And no, a gorilla tearing something up does not count.

Your profile picture shpuld be

Proof enough, look at that thing i bet you would not wrestle it? Or shake its hand..

your name is chimp (grip) thats becuase

You want that chimps grip cause you no its beyond ares right?

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I wouldn't say it's beyond ours...yes, very strong grip, but until tests are done to prove it, I think it's up in the air (in regards to the grip strength of a chimp compared to the strongest human grips)

It would be interesting to see a chimp try to close a CoC #4, BB world class, grippers like that.

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Josh O'Dell

I keep stumbling on a story about a dynometer test in 1924 at the bronx zoo

where a man gets like 210lbs on the dyno and a female chimp

gets 1240???

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Stephen Ruby

I wouldn't say it's beyond ours...yes, very strong grip, but until tests are done to prove it, I think it's up in the air (in regards to the grip strength of a chimp compared to the strongest human grips)

It would be interesting to see a chimp try to close a CoC #4, BB world class, grippers like that.

There have been quite a few tests done to show that they are stronger then us-outside of the biological advantages that have been observed-, and they are more then likely not going to full force or close to it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1635523/

"To summarize, this study offers strong evidence that in an explosive task, bonobo muscle performs superiorly to human muscle, most likely due to a higher specific force. Whether the difference is due to higher density of contractile material or due to differences in the contractile machinery per se (i.e. myosin heavy chain isoform) remains to be investigated'.

Read through the introduction a bit but you can also see that the chimps even outperform us in jumping by a large margin despite anatomical disadvantages. The reason for this is due to what joshw mentioned. Biologically they are just superior to us with regards to maximum force output. You don't have to believe it but its silly to think that a human would be stronger then a chimp let alone a gorrila lol.

Edited by Stephen Ruby
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Let me explain that...

So a chimp pulls 1247, these football players from the era (the 20s) try to pull and can only get up to 500 with both arms.

Football players of the 20s are not ideal to compare the strength of chimps to tip top shape men. Football players today are mutants compared to those of the 20s (anyone here who watches football and is familiar with the evolution of athletes over the decades can understand)

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Josh O'Dell

I said grip not pull

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