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3.5 Credit Card Set....done!


1stCoC

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So now we know that Sorin had figured out previously that it was easier if the person certifying has the credit card inserted for him and believed that should be the way to do it. So he goes ahead and does that for his own cert and for Tex's cert even though the rules posted on Ironminds site have not been changed to doing things the way that Sorin thinks they should be done.It really does stink!

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http://www.ironmind.com/ironcms/morenewsv6.php?id=2629#2629

i guess they are going to overlook the part of the rule that says

"the gripster must show the official that he has an acceptable starting position by using his non-gripping hand to slide the end of a credit/ATM card in between the ends of the handles "

as long as a credit card fits between the legs

Ok now that we all know that you can have someone hold a card for you.....its time for business!!! going on what teemu said im up for hire guys. For a fee ( fees negotiable) you can hire me to be your card bearer. i will be practicing my reflexes in hopes to be the best card holder in the world. i will have it so precise that you can open the gripper exactly to the right width down to a mili meter and i will stick the card in for you. Man, im so good at card holding you guys can even have it a little less then the right width but ill make it look like you did. we should tell strossen to make a certification for us soon to be card holders " who has card holded the toughest gripper". Man im onto something... if you card holded 10 people you get a white colored card to use (like the trainer gripper instead of having t-4 you have colors for us card holders) if you have card holded for 100 people you get a RED card and thats elite, king of the hill like a number 4 close.

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Wannagrip

"Man, im so good at card holding you guys can even have it a little less then the right width but ill make it look like you did"

This will likely be a problem now for the certs and it opens the door. Especially without video required. A card holder hunched over in the way of the witness and presto changeo the card gets inserted so fast you can hardly see it was inserted if at all properly. Especially if it's done with break neck speed.

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Rick Browne
"Man, im so good at card holding you guys can even have it a little less then the right width but ill make it look like you did"

This will likely be a problem now for the certs and it opens the door. Especially without video required. A card holder hunched over in the way of the witness and presto changeo the card gets inserted so fast you can hardly see it was inserted if at all properly. Especially if it's done with break neck speed.

Yes, compare the Finns credit card set, which seemed like the card was in the gripper for 5 seconds before the official ok`d the GO. Not the case with the more recent celebrated 3.5er

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Wannagrip

Hey, just thought of something else.

Does any card suffice? Cut off a bit around the card and I bet no one notices. Does the card get examined in full detail by the witness? It JUST says ATM or credit card. All they all the same size? It doesn't say in the rules that the ATM/credit card cannot be modified in any way from the standard size does it? What's a standard size? A loop hole? Just like this one discussed in this thread?

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Rick Browne
Hey, just thought of something else.

Does any card suffice? Cut off a bit around the card and I bet no one notices. Does the card get examined in full detail by the witness? It JUST says ATM or credit card. All they all the same size? It doesn't say in the rules that the ATM/credit card cannot be modified in any way from the standard size. What's a standard size? A loop hole? Just like this one discussed in this thread?

Hmmm, good point! A bit more Hocus Pocus can be had with a shaved credit card... Heheh

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vikingsrule92
Hey, just thought of something else.

Does any card suffice? Cut off a bit around the card and I bet no one notices. Does the card get examined in full detail by the witness? It JUST says ATM or credit card. All they all the same size? It doesn't say in the rules that the ATM/credit card cannot be modified in any way from the standard size does it? What's a standard size? A loop hole? Just like this one discussed in this thread?

VERY good point Bill. It'd be easy to have a standard credit card and shave off a mm or 2 and it's near impossible to notice by the human eye unless examined closely. Or find one minutely smaller then average and use that. If he wants it to be standard you should be required to use a COC card, that was sent with the package so it can not be tampered with by anyone. And although I disagree with this whole thing with someone else to insert the card if it is done so it needs to be done like the Finns cert, where it must be VERY clearly in the handles all the way.

Edited by vikingsrule92
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Heh heh. A few credit card companies have miniature keychain versions. I don't have one, but being the clown that I am, I've always been tempted to make a video of a CCS using one of those :D Some of those cards are funky shapes, and probably no more than an inch wide.

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bencrush

Haha! Never thought of the small credit card trick! That's great stuff. I wonder if it's as hard to bring it forth with the smaller card...

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Well this has all been a very good read, you dissapear of the board for more than 4 days and you have a lot of reading to catch up on.

I like many people on this site am irritated by the poor adherence to the official rules. theres no escaping the official rules its printed on the back of every packed COC gripper! I unfortunately have not certified yet and have had several dips in strength over the last year, but when i was at my strongest, having done MM2 and RB330N, i could CCS a 2 of my #3's the way Tex has certed the 3.5. Now i did not go for the cert as i was still seemingly miles away from being strong enough as i couldnt (not helping with smaller hands) hold the gripper and the required width long enough to clearly show the insertion of a CC, so i never contacted IM to go for the cert. Im now annoyed with myself that i didnt contact IM as if this rule about insertion of a CC doesnt have to be adhered to as strictly as i may seem, then i feel fairly strongly that i could have gained the auspicious title of captain of crush, something that i will have to wait a bit longer for. This is a bit of a moan, i know, and doesnt get me anywhere as to saying that i could have been a COC, quite a few guys on the board know how strong i was around october last year, and i think they could back me up in saying i should have certed, or pushed myself further to cert.

I enjoyed reading Teemus words on this thread, as he is extremely accurate in what he says, i like that this thread hasnt gone out of control, in that there seems to be and underlining element of respect that is of utmost importance.

The most important thing now to happen is for the rule maker , to give an official response. If the rules stand, there can only really be one right response from Dr Strossen and that is an apology for the mistake, then a statement saying that Tex will repeat the cert attempt, and im sure he is strong enough to do the cert correctly. Or Dr Strossen will adjust the rules officially to allow this part of the cert where a CC can be inserted by someone else to be made official, website should then be changed and packaging of grippers should be changed. If the latter happens, in my view and indeed as discussed by TimT a couple of pages back, seriously affects the integrity of the whole IM cert, will the rules continue to be modified etc etc..

I like many others will just have to watch this space closely.

One more thing to add which i should have said right at the start of my 2cents, is to Tex: i saw the video and i will say extremely strong close, you show tremendous power, a big congrats for that feat, but good luck in achieving the feat under the correct and official guidelines.

Pete

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I took one of those mini credit cards at my job a few weeks ago and thought about this issue. Technically, it would fit the rules but it's MUCH smaller.

Tim

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Sybersnott
I took one of those mini credit cards at my job a few weeks ago and thought about this issue. Technically, it would fit the rules but it's MUCH smaller.

I just measured my Bank Of America ATM/debit card and it's companion mini card; the mini card is exactly 9/16" smaller in width than it's big brother. I'll take a pic of it and post it up in the gallery.

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Paul Knight
Hey, just thought of something else.

Does any card suffice? Cut off a bit around the card and I bet no one notices. Does the card get examined in full detail by the witness? It JUST says ATM or credit card. All they all the same size? It doesn't say in the rules that the ATM/credit card cannot be modified in any way from the standard size does it? What's a standard size? A loop hole? Just like this one discussed in this thread?

Very, very good point ... for all who are disecting the rules .... if you wanna take the verbage and analyse it like an attorney would, then you could say the cert needs to be re-done, but then you could also let Tex re-cert with a mini CC! :laugh:laugh

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Chris Mathison

If you specifically use a smaller card or modify the card just to get your cert then please do all of us gripsters a favor and go focus your energy elsewehere because you dont belong among us.

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Martin_Arildsson

Just because someone else handles the card, it doesn't make the whole process that much easier.

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kilkkinen
"Man, im so good at card holding you guys can even have it a little less then the right width but ill make it look like you did"

This will likely be a problem now for the certs and it opens the door. Especially without video required. A card holder hunched over in the way of the witness and presto changeo the card gets inserted so fast you can hardly see it was inserted if at all properly. Especially if it's done with break neck speed.

Yes, compare the Finns credit card set, which seemed like the card was in the gripper for 5 seconds before the official ok`d the GO. Not the case with the more recent celebrated 3.5er

When you do it do it exactly right way, that everybody can clearly see what happens, no question , that there is something weird happening, It is much easier to judge the close, when the credit card is BETWEEN the handless, not just barely in "BETWEEN" the top of the handles and also NOT sliding it super fast.

IMO the cert have to be clear as crystal, that you dont have to think IT all, what happend. That´s why here in Finland we do all cert exactly how it says in textbook. Also the video is good to be, even it is not required. But the video shows that "we dont have nothing to hide" . Judge is judge, but video is also good document to all of us, who love this intrest. Share the love and share the Certvideo :) Ther are not so many videos in usually. Why cant we share it, because we all Love to see, when the handless touch and it says Click ;) This is serious bussines, but dont forget the :)

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If you look at Tex video the try with the yellow ribbon gripper before the “real” cert attempt

it doesn't looks like the card where between the legs of the gripper it looks like it was a bit away from it.

Unfortunately in the last try the card cant bee seen in the video.

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http://www.ironmind.com/ironcms/morenewsv6.php?id=2629#2629

Saturday, August 09, 2008

Certification: Carding the Gripper by Randall J. Strossen, Ph.D. | ©2008 IronMind

When IronMind introduced what has been called “the credit card rule,” it had a very straightforward purpose: In view of the shrinking starting position some guys were using before they closed grippers, IronMind wanted to establish a definite minimum standard that was acceptable for certifying official closes with the hardest of the Captains of Crush® Grippers.

That minimum acceptable starting position was defined as the width of a credit/ATM card, since that had all the qualities we needed in a useful gauge that would define a legal starting position. As part of the rule, we also wrote that the gripster must show that he has a legal starting position by sliding the card between the ends of the handles before getting the go signal from the referee.

Unfortunately, as clearly as we thought these rules had been stated, some people persisted in thinking that for a legal start, the gripper first had to be crushed down to the width of a credit card, and more than one person has had the judge, rather than the gripster himself, take the measurement with the card.

Neither is what we would prefer, but just as not everyone has followed the exact directions we give for when and how to apply for certification, IronMind feels it’s most important to focus on the purpose of the rules, which in this case involves establishing that the starting position is legal, and that’s the principle we follow when making our certification decisions.

Still, it’s easy to understand why questions will arise when the exact letter of the procedures is not followed and IronMind continues to urge people who are involved in certifications to take a few minutes to read the rules, asking us questions if something is unclear, and then follow them exactly as they are written.

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Autolupus
http://www.ironmind.com/ironcms/morenewsv6.php?id=2629#2629
Saturday, August 09, 2008

Certification: Carding the Gripper by Randall J. Strossen, Ph.D. | ©2008 IronMind

Unfortunately, as clearly as we thought these rules had been stated, some people persisted in thinking that for a legal start, the gripper first had to be crushed down to the width of a credit card, and more than one person has had the judge, rather than the gripster himself, take the measurement with the card.

Neither is what we would prefer, but just as not everyone has followed the exact directions we give for when and how to apply for certification, IronMind feels it’s most important to focus on the purpose of the rules, which in this case involves establishing that the starting position is legal, and that’s the principle we follow when making our certification decisions.

...and then follow them exactly as they are written.

Glad that's cleared that up then! :dry

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http://www.ironmind.com/ironcms/morenewsv6.php?id=2629#2629
Saturday, August 09, 2008

Certification: Carding the Gripper by Randall J. Strossen, Ph.D. | ©2008 IronMind

When IronMind introduced what has been called “the credit card rule,” it had a very straightforward purpose: In view of the shrinking starting position some guys were using before they closed grippers, IronMind wanted to establish a definite minimum standard that was acceptable for certifying official closes with the hardest of the Captains of Crush® Grippers.

That minimum acceptable starting position was defined as the width of a credit/ATM card, since that had all the qualities we needed in a useful gauge that would define a legal starting position. As part of the rule, we also wrote that the gripster must show that he has a legal starting position by sliding the card between the ends of the handles before getting the go signal from the referee.

Unfortunately, as clearly as we thought these rules had been stated, some people persisted in thinking that for a legal start, the gripper first had to be crushed down to the width of a credit card, and more than one person has had the judge, rather than the gripster himself, take the measurement with the card.

Neither is what we would prefer, but just as not everyone has followed the exact directions we give for when and how to apply for certification, IronMind feels it’s most important to focus on the purpose of the rules, which in this case involves establishing that the starting position is legal, and that’s the principle we follow when making our certification decisions.

Still, it’s easy to understand why questions will arise when the exact letter of the procedures is not followed and IronMind continues to urge people who are involved in certifications to take a few minutes to read the rules, asking us questions if something is unclear, and then follow them exactly as they are written.

And...the IM cert process has hit a new low! Congratulations Randy. I look forward to watching Teemu become the first person to officially certify on the 3.5 by following the official rules.

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So the Ironmind rules on the credit card set were not changed. To my mind those who certified outside of the rules should be honorable and man enough to revoke their certification and certify again within the rules. Witnesses known to be less than strict should not be used again.

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Bob Lipinski

Complaining about the IM cert just won't do too much good. It is a nice promotional tool for Ironmind and kinda neat, but if you take it too seriously you'll be in for dissappointment.

Put your energy into the MM cert if you are more inclined for a strict process.

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tspinillo
So the Ironmind rules on the credit card set were not changed. To my mind those who certified outside of the rules should be honorable and man enough to revoke their certification and certify again within the rules. Witnesses known to be less than strict should not be used again.

I concur.

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