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Greatest Potential Crushers


Chris Mathison

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much like raw/equipped powerlifting
And we all know how that ended up! Can't we learn from other's mistakes? Screw IM (apologies, Randy) screw MM (apologies, Bill) WE are the people, let US make the rules! Somebody start a poll for the standard set for all closes CC or //. And then let us all abide by the democratic decision.

Yeah, and if you let the people make up the rules you'll get pricks on youtube closing stamped on, heated spring, 1mm set #4s and being asked to be put on the cert list :dry

(yeah, like that'll even happen! :blink )

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Actually you should use a CCS when certing on an IM gripper and a MMS set when certing on a MM gripper. 2 different certs/organizations if you will, much like raw/equipped powerlifting. Just provides more opportunities for guys, so pick which set you like, train how you like, and cert where you want. Simple as that......

Oh my god........And cert where you want!!

Ha, ok mate, I've just certed where I want with my own rules as you'd like. I closed a #4 in my garden shed and repped it 34 times. I take it you believe me mlstrass, and this is how you think things should be done eh!!

As you said "Just provides more opportunities for guys" to season grippers, fake videos, fake grippers, use stupid sets, and make a joke of the sport.

Well done mate, very well done.

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Wannagrip
much like raw/equipped powerlifting
And we all know how that ended up! Can't we learn from other's mistakes? Screw IM (apologies, Randy) screw MM (apologies, Bill) WE are the people, let US make the rules! Somebody start a poll for the standard set for all closes CC or //. And then let us all abide by the democratic decision.

(yeah, like that'll even happen! :blink )

I got some news for you. The Mash Monster rules were made by the members here. :) It was to provide an alternative cert. And, create a ladder. And, compare people closing the same grippers. No profits are made from the Mash Monster certs either. In fact, they are a lot of work logistically. Even the profiles take time to create, video to edit, etc. That's why you can thank the diesel crew for playing a major role in keeping them going. I would not have time myself to do all the work for a cert.

Let's keep this civil in discussion and not get off track.

It was closed, but I will re-open it for now. Let's get back on topic about the best crushers. Not the gripper providers.

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Just one small point on an issue of hand size. For me CCS is actually very awakward, in the CCS position my index finger is certainly not wrapped around the gripper, so im not tapping into my maximum strength point, so i am not at my strongest crushing ability with the CCS. I personally feel the parallel sets are a good thing, as it takes hand size out of the question, since when the gripper is at parallel everyone should be at their strongest, and the ability to see what you can crush from their is a test in itself.

Indeed CCS is harder than MMS, and a guy closing the #3 CCS is indeed stronger than i guy that can only close it MMS, but what if the guy who CCSs it has 8" hands and the guy who cant has 7" hands. Id say the larger handed fellows have an advantage, then surely it is unfair to declare who has the strongest crushing potential if their are unfair factors in the equation. If on the other hand hand size becomes virtually irrelevant, by testing hand strength over a large group of individuals using a parallel set, it is surely a fairer experiment.

Just to make my intentions clear, im not suggesting that all cert closes should be MMS by any means, infact i am for CCS as a form of cert, it is a very testing measure for a close, and if done carries tremendous weight of achievement, certainly with the CCS of #3 in my eyes.

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Actually you should use a CCS when certing on an IM gripper and a MMS set when certing on a MM gripper. 2 different certs/organizations if you will, much like raw/equipped powerlifting. Just provides more opportunities for guys, so pick which set you like, train how you like, and cert where you want. Simple as that......

Oh my god........And cert where you want!!

Ha, ok mate, I've just certed where I want with my own rules as you'd like. I closed a #4 in my garden shed and repped it 34 times. I take it you believe me mlstrass, and this is how you think things should be done eh!!

As you said "Just provides more opportunities for guys" to season grippers, fake videos, fake grippers, use stupid sets, and make a joke of the sport.

Well done mate, very well done.

"Cert where you want" meaning IM or MMS, no need to take it to extremes with the shed comment. Don't need to believe you as what gripper you can close has NO bearing on my training and that's what I come here for, useful training advice, to encourage others, and receive encouragement. NOT to go in circles with useless debates.

How does MMS vs CCS fit in with over seasoned grippers, fake vids, etc...???? If you don't like the MMS then don't use it, again simple as that, but don't discount others who choose to train that way and cert on the MM list...

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Apparently Ironmind runs the gripper world... :whacked

Err, I don't think Ironmind run the gripper world, I have HG's, RB's and COCs as I'm sure you do also. Ironmind do make the #3 and the #4 though are they not the grippers we all talk about to set our gripping standards? Ironmind is the company that makes the rules because it's their gripper you hold when you are trying to cert on the holy grail #4.

And I'm sure that as you've made a point about questioning who runs the gripper world, you'd like to make a better surgestion of who are the people behind the sport? Because it's not the people that by the grippers and make up thier own rules by any means.

If shooting for the #3 or #4 then use a CCS, but others who aspire to climb the MM ladder should use a MMS. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

Who is making up their own rules????

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Apparently Ironmind runs the gripper world... :whacked

Err, I don't think Ironmind run the gripper world, I have HG's, RB's and COCs as I'm sure you do also. Ironmind do make the #3 and the #4 though are they not the grippers we all talk about to set our gripping standards? Ironmind is the company that makes the rules because it's their gripper you hold when you are trying to cert on the holy grail #4.

And I'm sure that as you've made a point about questioning who runs the gripper world, you'd like to make a better surgestion of who are the people behind the sport? Because it's not the people that by the grippers and make up thier own rules by any means.

If shooting for the #3 or #4 then use a CCS, but others who aspire to climb the MM ladder should use a MMS. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

Who is making up their own rules????

You are by making gripper seasoning tools.

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I got some news for you. The Mash Monster rules were made by the members here. :) It was to provide an alternative cert.
Yeah, I was being sarcastic, but when I read it back that doesn't come through, sorry.
In no particular order:

International Teemu, Josh Dale, Chris Mathison(he's got the raw talent, and the determination), Dave Morton, Magnus S, Tommy H, Wes, Martin Arildsson, Shane Larson, (Ben Edwards,Clay Edgin; if they get back into grippers), haven't heard much about what John Hicks has been doing with grippers for a while, so he's got to be on the list if he's been working hard; and of those, I think Martin's the favourite.

Local Sam Solomi, Pete Kerr, Paul Savage, Stevie G, David Horne (I know he hates grippers, but tell me he couldn't do it if he set his mind to it!), Mark Felix, Laine Snook, and Fred Coombs (he's got the raw talent, and the determination): of these, Mobster's the favourite, if he wants it.

I forgot to mention Andrew Durnait(sp?)
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Bob Lipinski

Here is my best try-

The only legitimate set is the one that you are best at. Right?

A TNS close of a heavier gripper beats a TNS close of a lighter gripper. An MM close of a heavier gripper beats an MM close of a lighter gripper.

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Bob Lipinski

Oh yeah, with a 3"+ gripper, a TNS, CCS, or a ruler all measure hand size pretty well.

That's it! I've made my allotted posts in this thread, and will not allow myself another until this topic comes up next month.

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lifesnotfair

Besides everyone else mentioned in this thread, what about John Wood? Wasn't he TNS'ing some big grippers a few years back?

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IMHO, all the big boys closing big grippers need to close them with a minimum CCS. Let's face it, Ironmind are the original and best when it comes to heritage and gripper history and they felt that a CCS cert closed needed to be intoduced.

Warren Tetting has far more heritage, and that IM makes the best grippers is argueable.

WHY DOES ANYBODY NEED TO USE DEEPER SETS THAN A CCS? Who on earth thinks they have the right to host competitions which let people use deeper sets then Ironmind intends?

Free Country anyone?

Ironmind make the rules for the COC grippers, pay them and yourself some respect and close the gripper the way they want you to. Why go on youtube otherwise?

Ironmind doesn't make the rules. Guys who really care about grip, host comps and put their time and effort into it made the rules.

And besides IM isn't the only grippermanufacturer.

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Bob Lipinski
Ironmind make the rules for the COC grippers, pay them and yourself some respect and close the gripper the way they want you to. Why go on youtube otherwise?

Damn, I missed that part. If you want to talk about respect, those who show up and compete against the best deserve plenty of it. This is in no way a shot against Ironmind- You show up for the cert and you are putting your stuff on the line. The same thing goes for guys in MM certs and in contests.

Many competitors will show up for CCS, TNS, MMS, or WYGNS (with your genitals set). If you want to be the best, beat them at their own game. This is what is redikolus(misspelled to honor powerlifting forums) to me- If you want to beat someone, play the game at their rules. It is very, very easy to say that the MMS guys are lame and aren't as strong, but it may be harder to beat them. I'm not a pussy in this regard, though I refuse to use a credit card for anything other than buying a gripper- guess that is a shot at Ironmind-, I will hold a TNS event for the second time at my comp this summer.

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Teemu I

I'm honoured to be mentioned in this thread, but personally I don't give much value to the whole concept of potential. Potential doesn't close grippers for anyone, and it's all nothing but talk until a person shows what he is capable of. There's only one way to find out. In that sense potential is worth crap. When people talk about potential they often begin "if the certain so and so trained for that they'd do that" and after that we have huge imaginery gripper closes or something like that. To me, only real achievements matter.

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sineparixmace
I'm honoured to be mentioned in this thread, but personally I don't give much value to the whole concept of potential. Potential doesn't close grippers for anyone, and it's all nothing but talk until a person shows what he is capable of. There's only one way to find out. In that sense potential is worth crap. When people talk about potential they often begin "if the certain so and so trained for that they'd do that" and after that we have huge imaginery gripper closes or something like that. To me, only real achievements matter.

^^^

Could not have said it better

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Ironmind make the rules for the COC grippers, pay them and yourself some respect and close the gripper the way they want you to. Why go on youtube otherwise?

Damn, I missed that part. If you want to talk about respect, those who show up and compete against the best deserve plenty of it. This is in no way a shot against Ironmind- You show up for the cert and you are putting your stuff on the line. The same thing goes for guys in MM certs and in contests.

Many competitors will show up for CCS, TNS, MMS, or WYGNS (with your genitals set). If you want to be the best, beat them at their own game. This is what is redikolus(misspelled to honor powerlifting forums) to me- If you want to beat someone, play the game at their rules. It is very, very easy to say that the MMS guys are lame and aren't as strong, but it may be harder to beat them. I'm not a pussy in this regard, though I refuse to use a credit card for anything other than buying a gripper- guess that is a shot at Ironmind-, I will hold a TNS event for the second time at my comp this summer.

Bob,

I agree with most of what you say, but as I said before every strength sport has a regulated range of movement for every type of lift. Deadlifts, bench presses....etc

In the sport of closing grippers, why would it not be a good idea to have a recognised range of movement to officialy confirm a gripper close? I would personaly say a TNS but as Ironmind are the makers of the #3 and #4, the two most recognised grippers in the world, I think we shoud go with them.

I don't understand why making easier sets in comps is a favord option. Maybe some of you guys that compete in comps can tell my why other sets are used. And also would you rather all comps to use a standard set?

If I held a bench press competition, I wouldn't let anyone get away with a press without a full press, arms locked out. Would anyone else?

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I'm honoured to be mentioned in this thread, but personally I don't give much value to the whole concept of potential. Potential doesn't close grippers for anyone, and it's all nothing but talk until a person shows what he is capable of. There's only one way to find out. In that sense potential is worth crap. When people talk about potential they often begin "if the certain so and so trained for that they'd do that" and after that we have huge imaginery gripper closes or something like that. To me, only real achievements matter.

All of what you've said is spot on Temmu, you've hit the nail on the head.

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Florian Kellersmann
Ironmind make the rules for the COC grippers, pay them and yourself some respect and close the gripper the way they want you to. Why go on youtube otherwise?

Damn, I missed that part. If you want to talk about respect, those who show up and compete against the best deserve plenty of it. This is in no way a shot against Ironmind- You show up for the cert and you are putting your stuff on the line. The same thing goes for guys in MM certs and in contests.

Many competitors will show up for CCS, TNS, MMS, or WYGNS (with your genitals set). If you want to be the best, beat them at their own game. This is what is redikolus(misspelled to honor powerlifting forums) to me- If you want to beat someone, play the game at their rules. It is very, very easy to say that the MMS guys are lame and aren't as strong, but it may be harder to beat them. I'm not a pussy in this regard, though I refuse to use a credit card for anything other than buying a gripper- guess that is a shot at Ironmind-, I will hold a TNS event for the second time at my comp this summer.

Bob,

I agree with most of what you say, but as I said before every strength sport has a regulated range of movement for every type of lift. Deadlifts, bench presses....etc

In the sport of closing grippers, why would it not be a good idea to have a recognised range of movement to officialy confirm a gripper close? I would personaly say a TNS but as Ironmind are the makers of the #3 and #4, the two most recognised grippers in the world, I think we shoud go with them.

I don't understand why making easier sets in comps is a favord option. Maybe some of you guys that compete in comps can tell my why other sets are used. And also would you rather all comps to use a standard set?

If I held a bench press competition, I wouldn't let anyone get away with a press without a full press, arms locked out. Would anyone else?

Comparing Grippers with benchpress doesn't make sense here, cause if you use a deeper set you still have to do the hardest part, the close of the SPRING, while benchpressing is a fix weight moved against its gravity.

The parallel set rule of competitions is simply more fair to small or average handed individuals.

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Teemu I

Comparing gripper close to bench press is a poor comparison.

Parallel set takes out the hand size issue and you have a better measure of hand strength in a competition. The wider the set, the less worthy they are in comparisons.

As for training towards the goal of stronger grip, there's not much point for the smaller handed to spend most of their time juggling the gripper for TNS or CCS, as the time would be better spent on getting a comfortable set and then squeezing as hard as possible.

If the TNS or CCS logic would be applied to bench press, you would be forcing individuals with shorter arms begin the movement from the racks set too high, making it all ridiculous.

I don't understand at all why it all should be so purist/black & white, different rules can be applied under different circumstances in any sport and there's a freedom of choice whether to participate or not. I choose to use all sets.

Edited by Teemu I
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unequipped

... there is an "easy set" for benchpress - using the new super shirts.

if you have control over a shirt, people like me, who can bench 200+ kg, can reach a limit near 300 kg.

but for me this is not a strength-sport.

i would say, dont use a "hanky-panky", when you want to do a strength-feat.

ok, for small hands you need a set.

Edited by unequipped
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... there is an "easy set" for benchpress - using the new super shirts.

if you have control over a shirt, people like me, who can bench 200+ kg, can reach a limit near 300 kg.

but for me this is not a strength-sport.

i would say, dont use a "hanky-panky", when you want to do a strength-feat.

ok, for small hands you need a set.

Ok, for small hands you need a set. A CCS is fine though isn't it?

Apart from all the free to set how you like comments, and of course all of use are free to do what we want with our grippers. Can anybody, PLEASE anybody just tell me why in some competitions and gripper closes, people are happy to use a more easy set than a CCS? This is all i want to know.

The idea of strength training is to get stronger, and you do that by using the least set possible. A TNS is ideal but if you really need a set, why does anybody feel it needs to be easier than a CCS?

I only used bench as an example of having a a standardised movment that EVERYBODY worldwide recognises. With many gripper vids I see oon youtube the set are deep with no ruler to indicate how deep it is, therefore all you can really do i guess? Inserting an object in the handles give everybody a fair view and means everybody can judge how strong they are compared to others.

If you host a comp that has no object inserted in the handles to show the set, would some people not gain an unfair advantge over others? I'm sure some comps do have a measure of some kind but lot's of videos don't. Just seems logical to uses a ccs, as most people in grip want to close #3s and #4s?

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mobsterone
Comparing gripper close to bench press is a poor comparison.

Parallel set takes out the hand size issue and you have a better measure of hand strength in a competition. The wider the set, the less worthy they are in comparisons.

As for training towards the goal of stronger grip, there's not much point for the smaller handed to spend most of their time juggling the gripper for TNS or CCS, as the time would be better spent on getting a comfortable set and then squeezing as hard as possible.

If the TNS or CCS logic would be applied to bench press, you would be forcing individuals with shorter arms begin the movement from the racks set too high, making it all ridiculous.

I don't understand at all why it all should be so purist/black & white, different rules can be applied under different circumstances in any sport and there's a freedom of choice whether to participate or not. I choose to use all sets.

Training is not a clear indication of who is the best so suggestions regarding how people train should be ignored when trying to make meaningful comparisons. The same applies with 'go with what suits you' or asking why it needs to be so black and white. How else do any of those in this thread level the playing field to make those already mentioned comparisons?

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Teemu I
Comparing gripper close to bench press is a poor comparison.

Parallel set takes out the hand size issue and you have a better measure of hand strength in a competition. The wider the set, the less worthy they are in comparisons.

As for training towards the goal of stronger grip, there's not much point for the smaller handed to spend most of their time juggling the gripper for TNS or CCS, as the time would be better spent on getting a comfortable set and then squeezing as hard as possible.

If the TNS or CCS logic would be applied to bench press, you would be forcing individuals with shorter arms begin the movement from the racks set too high, making it all ridiculous.

I don't understand at all why it all should be so purist/black & white, different rules can be applied under different circumstances in any sport and there's a freedom of choice whether to participate or not. I choose to use all sets.

Training is not a clear indication of who is the best so suggestions regarding how people train should be ignored when trying to make meaningful comparisons. The same applies with 'go with what suits you' or asking why it needs to be so black and white. How else do any of those in this thread level the playing field to make those already mentioned comparisons?

You are right to ask. I did comment on this on the other thread, and said that to compare, we need to be using the exact same grippers with same rules. So the MM-ladder is the best we have so far.

The part you quote I wrote only to defend a parallel set, as it seems to me like most of wide set advocates defend their views that are based on personal preference more than anything else, ignoring the smaller handed individuals.

There's been talks about the "intended use of grippers". I seriously doubt that these heavy duty grippers were so well thought out and ergonomically planned at the first place, as the design is old and it seems to be a coincidence that 3" or little less is the so-called standard. In fact if we follow that logic, the spread on most grippers would imply that these heavy duty grippers are not intended to be used by individuals with average or small hands. So who defines the intended use? I think the intended use can be defined differently for different certs or comps if so desired.

Edited by Teemu I
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I'm honoured to be mentioned in this thread, but personally I don't give much value to the whole concept of potential. Potential doesn't close grippers for anyone, and it's all nothing but talk until a person shows what he is capable of. There's only one way to find out. In that sense potential is worth crap. When people talk about potential they often begin "if the certain so and so trained for that they'd do that" and after that we have huge imaginery gripper closes or something like that. To me, only real achievements matter.

Resisting the urge to engage in the handsize argument and trying to get more on topic; Teemu definitely has huge upside when it comes to potential greatest crushers. I'd base this off of his R&P strength. I've heard it mentioned that they are stronger than his I&M? My I&M and everybody else I know, other than Teemu,have tons more horsepower in their I&M than their R&P. If he gets that way given the R&P power he already has...WOW! To put some numbers behind it: I'm pretty consistent with a single on my tug#6 R&P (doubled it once) and am usually in the 15-20 rep range I&M. If I could add 14-19 reps worth of strength to my R&P or if Teemu could get his I&M proportionately that much stronger than his current level of R&P....you get the idea.

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