Pullups Or Armwork?

[austinslater]

After looking for some information on the main armwrestling sites, Im curious what you guys find more important for armwrestling, Pullups or differeint types of hammer curls for back pressure and other forms of curling. There seem to be 2 camps; 1 camp says pullups in various forms are superior for armwrestling and another camp that says hammer curls of all types and other forms of curls are superior and more transferable to the table. I would love to hear where everyone stands on this. Maybe different types of puller prefer one camp or the other? So if your a toproller or a hooker post that as well and maybe we can get some good converstion on this topic. Thanks in advance guys

Austin

[David Horne]

Probably train on all 3 types of curls, and also lat work as well. It can't hurt.

David

[Patrik_F]

If I had to choose one, I would pick pullups/chins. Simply more muscles involved. Ofcourse that doesn't make hammer curls or any other curls bad exercises, they have their place too. Personally, my biceps gives out much earlier than my wrists in hammercurls. For toprolling, the wrist are more important than biceps imo.

Like many other people have said before though, armwrestling is the best exercise for armwrestling. Specific strength and techniques.

[Sean Dockery]

I'm not an armwrestler by any stretch, but here's my $.02...

We all know that good armwrestlers generate power from their core and hips. In order to transfer this power from the torso to the arm, what do you need? Strong rear delt, lat and tricep. The best exercises to train these muscles as a unit (like they are used on the table) would be pullup/rowing movements.

However, we all know that there are lots of positions on the table where bicep power is all that's between you and a loss. What developes pure bicep power better than curls? Dunno...

In conclusion, I'm gonna wimp out and say do both....but I'll also say that something needs to be done in addition to pullups and curls to train sidepressure. I think that's the reason big, strong guys get whooped by small good armwrestlers, they just aren't used to the force coming at their arm from that direction.

I pulled against sixgun once, toprolled and didn't move him a micron....that's the entirety of my armwrestling experience, so take the above for what ever it's worth.

Edited July 17, 2005 by Sean Dockery

[jad]

I pulled against sixgun once, toprolled and didn't move him a micron.... 

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Hilarious

[kyle102887]

I'm not an armwrestler by any stretch, but here's my $.02...

We all know that good armwrestlers generate power from their core and hips.  In order to transfer this power from the torso to the arm, what do you need?  Strong rear delt, lat and tricep.  The best exercises to train these muscles as a unit (like they are used on the table) would be pullup/rowing movements.

However, we all know that there are lots of positions on the table where bicep power is all that's between you and a loss.  What developes pure bicep power better than curls?  Dunno... 

In conclusion, I'm gonna wimp out and say do both....but I'll also say that something needs to be done in addition to pullups and curls to train sidepressure.  I think that's the reason big, strong guys get whooped by small good armwrestlers, they just aren't used to the force coming at their arm from that direction.

I pulled against sixgun once, toprolled and didn't move him a micron....that's the entirety of my armwrestling experience, so take the above for what ever it's worth.

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I hear yah man.....and I agree I'll do it all if it helps......I'm not a bodybuilder or a strongman competitior so I have no problems doing w/e it take to make me the best Armwrestler I can be.......so I say I agree and your best bet would to prolly to both and many different way to find the best way....

[supermagnamon]

i would agree with david and sean. also, work on u're rotator cuff as well.

[rying]

Not a competitive armwrestler, but my thoughts...

I say chins. They provide near-optimal tension for the arm flexors through their full range, curls do not. And they hit lats, pecs, and shoulders, and you're going to need those on the table.

The only major advantage curls provide over chins is wrist work, but there's better methods for that (front levering hits wrist much harder than hammer curls, for example).

However, we all know that there are lots of positions on the table where bicep power is all that's between you and a loss. What developes pure bicep power better than curls? Dunno...

Chins are the best biceps exercise. Are leg extensions a better quad exercise than squats? The arm flexors will be the weak link in any type of chin anyway, and they are superior for other reasons as well.

Probably train on all 3 types of curls, and also lat work as well. It can't hurt.

It could hurt if you "need" more lat work, but can't do it (and recover) because your biceps are fatigued from curls. If you decide that your biceps can recover from a much greater training load than your lats, then you could add curls to supplement the chins--or if you do lots of other heavy pulling that works lats but not biceps (DL's).

Curls "look" more like armwrestling, but more transferable? A buddy of mine said that his tennis coaches told players to avoid racketball, as it certainly would not carryover to the skill of tennis--and do more harm than good. Of course I don't play tennis and both sports look the same (racket-swinging wise) to me? Chins for strength, table work for skill.

[Blarg]

Not a competitive armwrestler, but my thoughts...

I say chins. They provide near-optimal tension for the arm flexors through their full range, curls do not.  And they hit lats, pecs, and shoulders, and you're going to need those on the table.

The only major advantage curls provide over chins is wrist work, but there's better methods for that (front levering hits wrist much harder than hammer curls, for example).

However, we all know that there are lots of positions on the table where bicep power is all that's between you and a loss. What developes pure bicep power better than curls? Dunno...

Chins are the best biceps exercise. Are leg extensions a better quad exercise than squats? The arm flexors will be the weak link in any type of chin anyway, and they are superior for other reasons as well.

Probably train on all 3 types of curls, and also lat work as well. It can't hurt.

It could hurt if you "need" more lat work, but can't do it (and recover) because your biceps are fatigued from curls. If you decide that your biceps can recover from a much greater training load than your lats, then you could add curls to supplement the chins--or if you do lots of other heavy pulling that works lats but not biceps (DL's).

Curls "look" more like armwrestling, but more transferable? A buddy of mine said that his tennis coaches told players to avoid racketball, as it certainly would not carryover to the skill of tennis--and do more harm than good. Of course I don't play tennis and both sports look the same (racket-swinging wise) to me? Chins for strength, table work for skill.

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That tennis coach sounds like the kind of karate instructor who would say to avoid tae kwon do, because it's not karate and would do his kicks more harm than good.

On the chins v. curls issue, I know nothing about armwrestling, yet for some strange reason want to venture an opinion anyway. And that's to do plenty of chins, with weight when you can. Chins coordinate and work many muscles, giving you a unified control of your body's power and experience using your core outward to the end of your limbs. They teach you to grip hard while focusing whole body power. And they develop power along that chain of muscles and motion, along with practice coordinating them all. I think chins will help you find weak links and fix them, too. They're simply an excellent exercise for building your upper body power chain.

[supermagnamon]

That tennis coach sounds like the kind of karate instructor who would say to avoid tae kwon do, because it's not karate and would do his kicks more harm than good.

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that's a good one.

[JasonL]

The best exercises to train these muscles as a unit (like they are used on the table) would be pullup/rowing movements.

Basically using a Clubbell would just fit that mold nicely

[Sean Dockery]

Sorry hoss, I've used Clubbells and they are useful for simulating some aspects of pulling on a table, but they are no substitute for heavy chins and curls.

The Clubbells do work the muscles of the arm/shoulder as a unit. But...the unit is performing a movement totally unlike pulling on a table. Chins work the specified muscles as a unit AND in a similar movement pattern (minus the sidepressure).

[BloodyGripper]

Not a competitive armwrestler, but my thoughts...

I say chins. They provide near-optimal tension for the arm flexors through their full range, curls do not.  And they hit lats, pecs, and shoulders, and you're going to need those on the table.

The only major advantage curls provide over chins is wrist work, but there's better methods for that (front levering hits wrist much harder than hammer curls, for example).

However, we all know that there are lots of positions on the table where bicep power is all that's between you and a loss. What developes pure bicep power better than curls? Dunno...

Chins are the best biceps exercise. Are leg extensions a better quad exercise than squats? The arm flexors will be the weak link in any type of chin anyway, and they are superior for other reasons as well.

Probably train on all 3 types of curls, and also lat work as well. It can't hurt.

It could hurt if you "need" more lat work, but can't do it (and recover) because your biceps are fatigued from curls. If you decide that your biceps can recover from a much greater training load than your lats, then you could add curls to supplement the chins--or if you do lots of other heavy pulling that works lats but not biceps (DL's).

Curls "look" more like armwrestling, but more transferable? A buddy of mine said that his tennis coaches told players to avoid racketball, as it certainly would not carryover to the skill of tennis--and do more harm than good. Of course I don't play tennis and both sports look the same (racket-swinging wise) to me? Chins for strength, table work for skill.

←

That tennis coach sounds like the kind of karate instructor who would say to avoid tae kwon do, because it's not karate and would do his kicks more harm than good.

On the chins v. curls issue, I know nothing about armwrestling, yet for some strange reason want to venture an opinion anyway. And that's to do plenty of chins, with weight when you can. Chins coordinate and work many muscles, giving you a unified control of your body's power and experience using your core outward to the end of your limbs. They teach you to grip hard while focusing whole body power. And they develop power along that chain of muscles and motion, along with practice coordinating them all. I think chins will help you find weak links and fix them, too. They're simply an excellent exercise for building your upper body power chain.

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Hmm No...the coach is correct when he states that racketball hurts your tennis game. I realize this is not the forum for a debate on tennis training but I have to add my 2 cents. I have played in many tennis tournaments and I have also played 4 years of high school tennis and college tennis. Hitting a tennis ball is all about technique and timing. The ball in racketball bounces very differently then the ball in tennis. This throws of your timing big time in your tennis game. This is difficult to explain in a forum without actually demonstrating in person.

[austinslater]

Ive been doing alot of chinup work and its variations and I think it has helped me on the table. As a side note a buddy of mine has layed off curls for a couple of months and focused on weighted chins and his curl max shot up 20 pounds without touching a curl. This doesnt prove that pullups are better then curls but if short on time it might be wiser to go with close grip chins. Just rambling . . .

[dennisb]

Austin, I always did preacher curls, Then hammer curls followed by chins OMG your arms feel like there gonna explode.But you know as well as i do the table is the ultimate weapon.

[austinslater]

Ive never tried doing pullups/chins after curls. Might not be a bad idea though. Have you always done it that way?

[dennisb]

I once read a very old book by former Mr.Universe Mike Mentzer and he stated doing chinups after bicep training was essential to stretch the worked muscle to provide quicker recovery plus the benefit of strengthening fast and slow twitch fibers.Doing compound movements and body weight training.Theres a scientific term for this kind of workout but I cant remember off hand. Give it a shot Ill bet you it will stay in your normal routine.

[DAN PRAYDIS]

i guess pull ups will help some but i would do all kinds of curls and wrist work hammer and preacher curls and at all different angles think of the angles at 12o'clock to 3 o'clock also one arm seated cable rows with a heavy weight like you starting a lawn mower reverse curls and wrist curls and weight catches by throwing a dumbbell and catching it about 6 to 10 inches to simulate a hard start and recover also lock your arm in a power lock and get a friend to pull your arm down with force with 2 arms but take about 5 seconds to pin you i never did pull ups just rows and using a peck deck helps alot to good luck

[dennisb]

Yeah I like PEC DEC machines to its works a whole lot of muscles at once.

[Killswitch213]

I dont want anyone to take this the wrong way... but there's way too much analizing going on here... lift heavy and pull hard. Thats what will make you a better puller. Do a combination of everything.

All these minute details that everyone is always debating on, isn't really going to make any difference. There's no secret... bust your ass and you'll get results.

[austinslater]

Kehler agreed! Check your pm . . .

[kelby]

do pull ups using a 1 and 1/2 or 2 inch rope. they will work you grips and arms hard. experiment with it. lots of levering too. uing a chair ( try it, very tough. and fun) it will tell you if you have wak wrist for pulling or not.

[verdigriz]

I once read a very old book by former Mr.Universe Mike Mentzer and he stated  doing chinups after bicep training was essential to stretch the worked muscle to provide quicker recovery plus the benefit of strengthening fast and slow twitch fibers.Doing compound movements and body weight training.Theres a scientific term for this kind of workout but I cant remember off hand. Give it a shot Ill bet you it will stay in your normal routine.

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This training is called pre-exhaust training by mike mentzer if i remember right. The idea behind this was that after a set of curls your biceps were obviously fatigued, so to work them past that point you could adopt a compound movement which employed the bicep muscle as well, the larger muscles doing the brunt of the work, while still making the target muscle do extra work. This also works the other way around too. For example, with chins, the biceps fatigue much more quickly than the lats do, being a smaller muscle group, so to remedy that you can do an isolation exercise for the lats like stright arm pull downs, and then jump right into a set of chins or pulldowns, this puts the bicep into a strong position being obviously fresher than the lats..its a case of the weaker link giving out first

[dennisb]

I once read a very old book by former Mr.Universe Mike Mentzer and he stated  doing chinups after bicep training was essential to stretch the worked muscle to provide quicker recovery plus the benefit of strengthening fast and slow twitch fibers.Doing compound movements and body weight training.Theres a scientific term for this kind of workout but I cant remember off hand. Give it a shot Ill bet you it will stay in your normal routine.

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This training is called pre-exhaust training by mike mentzer if i remember right. The idea behind this was that after a set of curls your biceps were obviously fatigued, so to work them past that point you could adopt a compound movement which employed the bicep muscle as well, the larger muscles doing the brunt of the work, while still making the target muscle do extra work. This also works the other way around too. For example, with chins, the biceps fatigue much more quickly than the lats do, being a smaller muscle group, so to remedy that you can do an isolation exercise for the lats like stright arm pull downs, and then jump right into a set of chins or pulldowns, this puts the bicep into a strong position being obviously fresher than the lats..its a case of the weaker link giving out first

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Incorrect. Pre-exhaust training is to be used before compound movements. For instance doing a couple three sets of chest flys prior to bench press. That would be called pre-exhaust .Total failure is when you can no longer complete one repition of a exercise. I had a book on Mentzers training practices many years ago i just cant put my finger on why he did the chins at the end of the workout.I cant remember....lol. Any ways i still do this type of bicep training on occasion and it is very effective. Your supposed to use a very narrow grip when doing them maybe a fist and a half space in between your hands. And the focus is primarily on the biceps not the lats.

[verdigriz]

I once read a very old book by former Mr.Universe Mike Mentzer and he stated  doing chinups after bicep training was essential to stretch the worked muscle to provide quicker recovery plus the benefit of strengthening fast and slow twitch fibers.Doing compound movements and body weight training.Theres a scientific term for this kind of workout but I cant remember off hand. Give it a shot Ill bet you it will stay in your normal routine.

←

This training is called pre-exhaust training by mike mentzer if i remember right. The idea behind this was that after a set of curls your biceps were obviously fatigued, so to work them past that point you could adopt a compound movement which employed the bicep muscle as well, the larger muscles doing the brunt of the work, while still making the target muscle do extra work. This also works the other way around too. For example, with chins, the biceps fatigue much more quickly than the lats do, being a smaller muscle group, so to remedy that you can do an isolation exercise for the lats like stright arm pull downs, and then jump right into a set of chins or pulldowns, this puts the bicep into a strong position being obviously fresher than the lats..its a case of the weaker link giving out first

←

Incorrect. Pre-exhaust training is to be used before compound movements. For instance doing a couple three sets of chest flys prior to bench press. That would be called pre-exhaust .Total failure is when you can no longer complete one repition of a exercise. I had a book on Mentzers training practices many years ago i just cant put my finger on why he did the chins at the end of the workout.I cant remember....lol. Any ways i still do this type of bicep training on occasion and it is very effective. Your supposed to use a very narrow grip when doing them maybe a fist and a half space in between your hands. And the focus is primarily on the biceps not the lats.

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I just checked that out in mentzers book, high intensity training the mike mentzer way, and he classifies curls and then pulldowns palms up as a pre-exhaust supersetand machine curls followed by chins as the other superset, preexhaust option, he then goes on to note that 'in training the triceps and biceps, the pecs and lats arent weak links. BUt compound exercises involving the latter two muscles can help the triceps and biceps continue working after being fatigued by an isolaion exercise'. So you are correct when you said that pre-exhaust begins with an isolation exercise followed by a compound movement, which is exactly what I said Also with pre-exhaust you coventionally dont do three sets of an isolation exercise then into your compound, the time frame is usually an instant move,ment from one to the other to get the full benefit of the isolation fatigue effect, off course theres many ways to do this, some better than others..

by the way, Im a newbie here and have had a great time reading the old posts etc..

verdi