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2005 Australian Grip Championship


Mikael Siversson
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No worries Mikael, I'm just throwing things into the pot as suggestions. I think the best thing is to perhaps pick a few events and have a poll and that will decide the last event. The trouble with giving everyone an opinion on what events to have is this exact problem, everyone has an injury or a problem with certain events. I'm the same, I would prefer not to have bending in but it's in and so be it. Here's some suggestions for the final event...at this stage the other four stand...

Two Finger Deadlift

Farmer's Hold

Trap Bar Hold

Rim Lift (one or two hands)

Reverse Rim Lift

Bearhug Lift

Rectangular Fix

One Hand Deadlift (Olympic bar, NO HOOK GRIP!)

Weaver Stick

I'd do them ALL!!!

Nick

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The trouble with giving everyone an opinion on what events to have is this exact problem, everyone has an injury or a problem with certain events. I'm the same, I would prefer not to have bending in but it's in and so be it.

In this case it is not so much having pain related problem with wrist curls as such (I have a high pain tolerance). I can't wrist curl at all with my left hand, once the weight goes above about 7-8kg in a one hand wrist curl for example. The bones jump out of alignment (as some of the ligament threads are gone) and lock up. Having said that, it is a weakness of mine not being able to wrist curl and this alone should not prevent wrist curls to included if that is what the other competitors want. If the wrist roller is included I will focus on the grippers, pinch, v-bar and bending and then watch you guys battle it out for the overall title. It is possible though that I could curl it with my right hand and then just hold it with my left, change my grip and then curl it again with the right hand. I love challenges.

Of the other lifts you suggested I would do them all except for the finger lifts. I always get injured when I do them. They used to have it in the IG comps but decided not to include them anymore because people got some nasty injuries. We used to have the one hand deadlift (not straddling it) with a regular Eleiko bar in the first LGC. Very wobbly but still fun. I was among the weakest in this event, so I would not mind doing it again just to punish myself for being a weakling. :trout

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I dunno, maybe it's easier for you than me. Have a try and see what you think. I find it extremely awkward to do and can't keep my arms straight with my hands in such a position. I don't have particularly flexible shoulders.

There's also no knurling that close in, though I suppose it is a grip contest.

It's no problem for me - I used to do behind-the-back wrist curls like that. However, I'm only a skinny bloke and I can see how it would be a problem for big guys with a thick back and shoulders, or for guys with shoulder injuries. Ah well, back to the drawing board...

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I've got pretty much the exact same injury as you, Mikael. Injured left wrist from TTWC.

I've always thought that the rim lift is a great event.

I also think thick bar is a good event, despite how terrible I am at it. It just really is a lot harder for the guys with small hands and short thumbs.

I do like the idea of a hold, maybe a rim lift hold for time?

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There is one major drawback with holds of any kind for time: it makes it extremely difficult to use a fair formula. It is fairly straight forward for the other events as we could use coefficients based on the top six guys in each event in the 2005 Europeans. Lets say that the average score in grippers for the top six is 6.63. For the Europeans we (basically me and David Horne) set the average to 100 in each event for the top six in previous competitions; i.e. the coefficient for grippers would then be 15.08. With a hypothetical average in the pinch of 94.2k for the top six in the pinch would give a coefficient of 1.062, and so on. So closing a 3.22 gripper righty and a 2.81 lefty would give a total of 6.03 and a score of 90.93. If you then pinch 81k you would get 86.02 points. This means that you are better at grippers than at pinch compared to the best. A slightly different approach would be needed in the bending, but it would still be doable. We would need to know where two different stocks meet difficulty-wise so to speak; e.g., at what length do an 8mm softish HRS compare to a 7'' piece of 5/16'' red nail stock in the 60 degree kink event for example. I am sure some of the best non-DO benders on the GripBoard would help us out with this so we could come up with an average length. We could then ask the best non-DO guys how short red nail stock they can kink to 60 degrees with our rules. This length could then be taken to equal the best pinch, v-bar or gripper results from the Europeans. Lets assume the best 60 degree non-DO unbraced kink is 6'' red nail stock and the best pinch (David Horne's 105k) scores 110 points, Jim's 317.6k in v-bar scores 116 points and Benny Wennberg's 6.76 in grippers scores 104 points. This would give an average of 110 points which would be a sort of logical score to give a 6'' red nail 60 degree kink. A 6 1/4'' red nail kink would give 105.6p (6 divided by 6.25 X 110), a 6 1/2'' would give 101.5 points (6.25 divided by 6.5 X 105.6p) a 6 3/4'' gives 6.5 divided by 6.75 X 101.5p= 97.74p. Note that the differences in points between two steps decreases with increasing length of the bar, which is reasonable considering that the relationship between bending difficulty and bar length is not linear within the 5 1/2-7'' range. The steps in difficulty are perceived as progressively bigger the shorter the bar is as the section of the bar making up the curve is more or less constant compared to the rapid decrease in the length of the straight legs. This scheme would probably work ok all the way down to a 1/4'' stock. If the drop in points is too large we could easily adjust for this so that the range of points in the bending is roughly in line with those in the other events.

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I have spoken to a bunch of you and the top vote goes for the One Hand Deadlift with NO HOOK. The Dinnie Lift tends to stress the pain a lot which many don't like and also is a heavy lift which might not be ideal for those with less bodily strength. Same goes for the One Hand Lift.

With a hook grip, cambered bar or a Farmer's bar the weights used in the One Hand Deadlift can be very large (in excess of 500lbs). That's why you may have heard of many doing big One Hand Deadlifts but not on a STRAIGHT Olympic bar. Very few have done over 400lbs on an Olympic bar with a hook grip and fewer still approaching the magic 500lbs.

The spin of the Olympic bar makes this a tough event and very much grip orientated. It doesn't favour large hands and the weights used are lower. The other thing is that everyone has access to a bar and weights so everyone can train it. Also either style can be used, ie straddle or in front. This is NOT set in stone yet but I think it is an excellent choice for a final event. Any objections?

Nick

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Ok, well it looks like the final lift will be the one hand deadlift, on an olympic bar, no hooking and from the ground to lockout (straddle or in front) with both hands tested.

In terms of knurling, I think you'd be hard pressed to find an olympic bar with no knurling in the middle (but I could be wrong). I know my bar has knurling in the middle and it'll probably be the bar we use for the comp. I don't see any advantage or disadvantage being given using a bar with knurling over no knurling to any of the competitors.

Thoughts?

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My bar at home doesn't have centre knurling, nor do any of the bars at the local gym. Doesn't matter either way... just wondering what to train on. Good for me this way... should hopefully get a few more kilos on your bar than the one I'll train on.

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FYI - Bars for Olympic lifting have no centre knurling. If an Oly style bar has centre knurling it is a powerlifting bar - the centre knurling is to minimize slipping on the back during squats. The other difference between the two bars is the stiffness. Oympic bars are designed to be springy, power bars are designed to be stiff.

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I think it makes a good final event, and knurling doesn't seem to make much of a difference to me. Either way it's all good.

As a method of judging maybe lift it to above knee height and then lower it without the bar slipping out of the person's hand.. if you can picture what I'm talking about.

Chuck, the eleiko oly bars have centre knurling, it's just light.

http://www.dynamic-eleiko.com/products/elsets.htm

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Jeff, technically, I stand corrected. Although, gripwise, I would say the lighter type knurling I've seen on some bars wouldn't make much difference compared to a good Power bar's centre knurling. Check out www.ivankobarbellcompany/bars and compare the different knurlings on their Oly and Power bars. This is what I have usually experienced.

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This is my absolutely worse event (along with the one hand lift; Euro style) of all. A couple of years ago when I last tried it (hopefully I am stronger now) I pulled to lockout (in front of my body) 100k righty and 102.5k lefty with an Eleiko OL bar. If you don't beat me in this you won't beat me in any other event. ;)

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  • 3 weeks later...

It now looks like the lifts for the Champs are set as follows...

1. Grippers (as per LGC/Euro Rules and using those grippers for direct comparison)

2. Two Hands Pinch (using the Euro Pinch disc)

3. Vertical Bar Lift (Euro Rules)

4. Bending (60 degree rule)

5. One Hand Deadlift (NO HOOK)

Full rules will be posted at a later date.

I wanted to see what everyone thought about when to hold the competition. I was thinking mid to late December, just before Xmas since that has been ideal for everyone in the past. Saturday 17th December seems to be a good choice but I want to get all those interested to comment first before we set the date.

Nick

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Sammy,

The width of the disc is variable so work out what suits you best and thats what you'll have on the day (or as close to). How good is that!!

Nick

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December sounds good to me... 17th is good.

Anyone know how wide the handle on Vince's pinch grip machine was for the last aus comp? I found that a pretty good width... was it 1"? 1.25" ?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Arthur or Nick

A question about how the 1-hand dead will be judged...

Will there be anything in the rules about the bar remaining parallel to the ground? on the way up and the way down? or maybe it doesn't matter as long as the bar remains clear of the ground?

Personally I'm finding it pretty hard to return the bar to the ground without getting some tilt. It may be that I'm just lowering it too quickly, I'll slow down a bit next time and see.... but if it's not an issue I wont worry.

Cheers

Mark

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