Mm4?

[Florian Kellersmann]

Bill said it: cause two guys closed the MM3, it's time to create the MM4. How will the MM4 looks like? Will he get the spring of a CoC #4 or will he get a SE-Spring like the MM3 (as the MM2 has the MM1-Spring too)?

[Clay Edgin]

Let me see if I have the specs of the MM grippers right:

MM1 - .295" spring set at 1/4"

MM2 - .295" spring set at 3/16"

MM3 - .306" spring set at 1/4"

The next logical step using this pattern I think would be to use the same spring but with a 3/16" mounting depth. But that might not be hard enough. And if you set the spring to 1/8" deep, then you have an exact replica of the BBSE that Warren already makes. And those BBSE's he's making like this now are like easy-to-average #4's IMO.

I think part of the appeal of the gripper is that it's not widely available. It's unique. Sure, you can buy a replica from Warren, but there's no guarantee that it will feel exactly like the real thing. That being said, I'm just about masochistic enough to say that I want to see the MM4 with a .306" spring set at 1/16", making it impossible for anyone to close right now.

Bill might also look at .312 springs with the depth at 1/4". And for the sake of all that is knurled, let's make the spread a little narrower this time okay!

[pdoire]

I think it would be good if the MM#4 cert was tougher

or as tough as the IM#4 cert. The gripboard should have

the toughest cert ...not Ironmind. Because of the credit card

rule our MM#4 should maybe be a bit tougher than the IM#4

to compensate for the set that we allow.

My two cents.

[Bill Piche]

If we want the toughest cert, we'll just use a World Class.

Why create a gripper or have a cert no one can close or certify on?

We want to create a "top guy" and have people work to dethrone the top guy.

That's why the MMG4 will likely be a .306 spring and 3/16" or just less.

I think someone will be able to close this.

And, if more than one closes it, we up the ante again with the MMG5.

[Clay Edgin]

Bill, the .306 with 3/16" or less (even 1/8") is still about the same specs as a BBSE and I think there are at least 4 guys on the board who can close it right now

[Bill Piche]

Bill, the .306 with 3/16" or less (even 1/8") is still about the same specs as a BBSE and I think there are at least 4 guys on the board who can close it right now

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Who can do it by the rules we have?

The whole point is comparing athletes on the same exact implement. Grippers vary so one guy who's done a BBSE may not be as strong as another who had a harder one.

Also, setting makes a big difference. The deep set won't cut it for the MMG2 and above.

I've got a BBSE and it's a monster. Much harder than the MMG3.

We could go a .312 with a 1/4" setting....

The point being is I don't want to create a gripper no one can close.

[Clay Edgin]

The point being is I don't want to create a gripper no one can close.

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Gotcha. For some reason I thought you wanted something no one could close right now. Don't know where I read that or how I read into that.

[pdoire]

Reachable, attainable, progressive steps, keeping the certs just

out of current reach, keeps the athletes ever trying to conquer

these higher goals. It is a make sense approach.

[Matt Van Weele]

Bill what do you mean the deep set won't cut it on the grippers mm2 and above? There setting it down to an inch. How much deeper would a guy want to set the thing?

[Bill Piche]

Bill what do you mean the deep set won't cut it on the grippers mm2 and above? There setting it down to an inch. How much deeper would a guy want to set the thing?

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You must forget the history. At first in the MMG cert life, we had not put our foot down on a strict set that could be seen at the start. No blocking with the setting hand and then guessing where the set is (sets even less than 1 inch). It happened prior to anyone certifying on the MMG2, so we established the parallel handles rule MUST be enforced strictly going forward at that point on the MMG2 and above. We also changed it from "1 inch" to parallel handles at that point. There was a big debate and discussion in fact. You can find it if you search.

With a strict set, even at parallel so it can be seen clearly, it is harder.

It's almost a pause at parallel so the start can be seen and then the close.

So, yes, there are deeper sets and the "rolling set" where the set is blocked by the setting hand.

[Matt Van Weele]

Bill I was refering to need the need for someone to actually close a gripper with that deep of a set. Why were grippers made with a say on average a 3'' spread if people are going to set them down to an inch or so anyways. Were they made that wide just so guys could practicing setting a gripper?

[Rick Browne]

Were they made that wide just so guys could practicing setting a gripper?

Remember this; these torsion springs were/are designed for functions other than grippers. Their angles were already set. My belief is that way back when,

Warren had the foresight to incorporate these springs for grippers. He probably

thought this concept up in order to make a gripper far harder than the

sports store cheapy version. Thinking "Hey I bet I could fashion handles

for this spring and market them as the super deluxe hand strength

builder". ( My theory anyway)

However, history has now shown that these springs can be deviated from

their original angle and skew to be narrowed down for grippers. Again a

Warren Tetting invention.

Matt, since you have personal contact with Warren, it would be interesting

to hear just how the story of his gripper technique came to be. From his

beginnings if you will. Thanks

Maybe post the story on the main board

[Bill Piche]

Bill I was refering to need the need for someone to actually close a gripper with that deep of a set. Why were grippers made with a say on average a 3'' spread if people are going to set them down to an inch or so anyways. Were they made that wide just so guys could practicing setting a gripper?

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Matt, you should well know that if a gripper is only one inch apart (made that way) compared to 3 inches, it will be much easier to close. There is hand strength needed and effort in setting the gripper. There's even more for the no set.

I won't get into the advantage a larger handed person has with the no set basically almost having the close be the equivalent of a close with a set.

[foggymountainmuscle]

Don't equivalent adjustments, like spring diameter and I assume spring depth, have a greater affect on the strength of the gripper the harder the gripper is? For instance, in bending, there is not much of a gap between an IM green and and IM yellow compared to the IM blue and the IM red. So what I'm wondering its, won't making equivalent adjustments ( a spring diameter increase or depth increase) bring the difficulty gap between the next gripper farther apart than ever before?

[Bill Piche]

Don't equivalent adjustments, like spring diameter and I assume spring depth, have a greater affect on the strength of the gripper the harder the gripper is? For instance, in bending, there is not much of a gap between an IM green and and IM yellow compared to the IM blue and the IM red.  So what I'm wondering its, won't making equivalent adjustments ( a spring diameter increase or depth increase) bring the difficulty gap between the next gripper farther apart than ever before?

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Not sure what you mean here. Anyway, we've already demonstrated we have a handle on adding difficulty to the grippers. You can be sure the MMG4 will be harder than the MMG3.

[Sean Dockery]

I think foggy was saying something like this:

Will moving the handle setting from 1/4" to 1/8" provide a greater increase in strength on a .306 spring versus a .295 spring?

Or

Should we move the handle setting in smaller increments as the spring size grows?

I don't think foggy was trying to question your methods, Bill. I think he saw a possible snag and wanted to make sure it had been foreseen.

[Bill Piche]

I think foggy was saying something like this:

Will moving the handle setting from 1/4" to 1/8" provide a greater increase in strength on a .306 spring versus a .295 spring?

Or

Should we move the handle setting in smaller increments as the spring size grows?

I don't think foggy was trying to question your methods, Bill.  I think he saw a possible snag and wanted to make sure it had been foreseen.

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Ahhh. Now I understand. DOH me.

But, they aren't my methods actually.

This is common knowledge. That is, spring depth and spring size are the key variables for hardess given the same spring size.

I don't forsee moving a full 1/8" for the MMG4. As I stated before, I would much rather do this slowly -- the only down side is reducing the closers slower. And, that's not really a downside. We want to reduce the number until one person stands.

[Jedd Johnson]

I don't forsee moving a full 1/8" for the MMG4. As I stated before, I would much rather do this slowly -- the only down side is reducing the closers slower. And, that's not really a downside. We want to reduce the number until one person stands.

I totally agree, bro.

-Jedd-

[ishred]

Question, what will reducing it to one closer prove?

Will it prove that the mmx closer has the strongest crush in the world, or the strongest crush amoungst those that are attempting the mm status?

I personally will be going for the mm cert's when i am ready since IM's rules are friendly for people with little hands like myself.

[Bill Piche]

Question, what will reducing it to one closer prove?

Will it prove that the mmx closer has the strongest crush in the world, or the strongest crush amoungst those that are attempting the mm status?

I personally will be going for the mm cert's when i am ready since IM's rules are friendly for people with little hands like myself.

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The answer is obvious so I am not sure why you even bothered to ask this question? We'd be morons to say that the top guy on the MMG ladder has the strongest crush in the world. There may be someone out there stronger who just isn't on the ladder.

By the way, please remove your avatar. It continues to be a broken image.

[ishred]

Question, what will reducing it to one closer prove?

Will it prove that the mmx closer has the strongest crush in the world, or the strongest crush amoungst those that are attempting the mm status?

I personally will be going for the mm cert's when i am ready since IM's rules are friendly for people with little hands like myself.

←

The answer is obvious so I am not sure why you even bothered to ask this question? We'd be morons to say that the top guy on the MMG ladder has the strongest crush in the world. There may be someone out there stronger who just isn't on the ladder.

By the way, please remove your avatar. It continues to be a broken image.

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yea bill, now that i reread my post i see i left a key point of my point out. Oh well, doesn't really matter now that i think about it.

i'll find a new avatar.

[Jedd Johnson]

If people are not interested in climbing the ladder, that is up to them. However, this is a very easy and cheap way to compare one's crush grip against this year's "The Man," Rob W. Vigeant, as he travelled half way across the country in January to beat the snot out of 20 competitors in Minnesota, then did the same here in PA, not to mention the dozen or so he beat last year, nearly tackling the great Steve McGranahan.

The idea of small incremental jumps is a good one in my opinion. After all, most people have a dozen or so Grippers in their collection, why not have at least half that in the MMG ladder.

-Jedd-

[ishred]

If people are not interested in climbing the ladder, that is up to them.  However, this is a very easy and cheap way to compare one's crush grip against this year's "The Man,"  Rob W. Vigeant, as he travelled half way across the country in January to beat the snot out of 20 competitors in Minnesota, then did the same here in PA, not to mention the dozen or so he beat last year, nearly tackling the great Steve McGranahan.

The idea of small incremental jumps is a good one in my opinion.  After all, most people have a dozen or so Grippers in their collection, why not have at least half that in the MMG ladder.

-Jedd-

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i totally agree jedd. I hope everyone on this board goes for the MM certs. I will when i am ready.

[Jedd Johnson]

I hope everyone on this board goes for the MM certs.

I know - there are a lot more strong sons of guns on this board whose crush is sick that aren't in it right now, and I really wish they would get in it man!!!!

-Jedd-

[Kurt Lane]

I will try to start doing somthing with grippers pretty soon... I got a video of a #3 close of mine so i can start up the ladder.