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Poll: Genetics And The #4


pdoire

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Genetics 1rst, hard work 2nd.

Edited by Darco
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Genetics 1rst, hard work 2nd.

I think on an average #4, genetics can be the limiting factor but not necessarily on crushing talent. I think unless you are a freak and the #4 comes easy you have to be genetically blessed with the drive and determination to stick with it and get it done. Of course the intensity level needed would vary with how much natural crush talent you have. For example, Kinney did insane workouts, nobody has come close to his #4 close and I've never heard of anybody training as hard as him either, not a coincidence. You can't teach Kinney's type of intensity and determination you either have it or you don't. IMO anyone with just average to slightly below average crush ability could get to the #4 if they had Kinney's type of determination and intensity. I'm sure many people here on the board have grown up working hard, working on a farm, etc...but I'm not talking about just a strong work ethic. I'm talking about that never-quit attitude and intensity that you either have or you don't. I would compare it to a pitbull's gameness. The dogs either have it or they don't , it can't be taught. (And No, I'm not a dog-fighter, I DESPISE them, but as a Pitbull lover I read everything I can on them and there is plenty on "gameness"). Granted if you can't close a trainer out of the box then I doubt you'll ever get to the #4 but if you can get the #1 pretty quick then I think the #4 is reachable, provided you're blessed with the drive.

Edited by jad
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Time is the main factor. If you train consistantley, in time you will close the #4. most ppl are satisfied with the closing of the #3. Personally I still got 1/4" to go to shut the #3 but its not a priority in my life. I train my grip once every 7-10days ans still make progress. Ill let it go at this pace, whatever happens happens. Eventually I will surpass my current limits, I always have & always will. Once again the main factor IMO is TIME. As far as genetics go, I shut the #2 within 1week of opening the package, I think I am on the upper end of genetics so im not concerned about my so called "limits".

Edited by HitMan
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id say if you cant close a 2 right away you will never get to a 4.

id bet all 4 closers did a 2 right away.

the guys who battle with a trainer wont get a 4. ever.

I hope to prove this wrong.

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the guys who battle with a trainer wont get a 4. ever.

Agreed

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Here's what I think.

All this talk about genetics is pointless. How the hell are you going to know if you have the "genetics" to close a #4 or not until you give it an honest run for it's money? Is there a blood test you can take which tells you what grippers you can and cannot close? If so, I have never heard of it.

I say that if you give something a honest run, then there becomes three possibilities. Either you succeed, or you give up, or you die trying. And in the case of dying trying, you won't ever know how long it may have taken to get the job done, will you? But there is no failing. How can you say "I have failed, my genetics aren't good enough?" That is essentially the same as giving up, is it not?

If there is ANY arguement for genetics, then it has more to do with mental genetics than anything else.

Aside from people with real life handicaps (mental or physical), I challenge anyone here to prove any individual genetically incapable of closing a #4 given the drive, the training wisdom, and the time to do it.

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Wannagrip
Here's what I think.

All this talk about genetics is pointless.  How the hell are you going to know if you have the "genetics" to close a #4 or not until you give it an honest run for it's money?  Is there a blood test you can take which tells you what grippers you can and cannot close?  If so, I have never heard of it.

I say that if you give something a honest run, then there becomes three possibilities.  Either you succeed, or you give up, or you die trying.  And in the case of dying trying, you won't ever know how long it may have taken to get the job done, will you?  But there is no failing.  How can you say "I have failed, my genetics aren't good enough?"  That is essentially the same as giving up, is it not?

If there is ANY arguement for genetics, then it has more to do with mental genetics than anything else.

Aside from people with real life handicaps (mental or physical), I challenge anyone here to prove any individual genetically incapable of closing a #4 given the drive, the training wisdom, and the time to do it.

Ok, me. I don't have the genetics to close a #4.

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Here's what I think.

All this talk about genetics is pointless.  How the hell are you going to know if you have the "genetics" to close a #4 or not until you give it an honest run for it's money?  Is there a blood test you can take which tells you what grippers you can and cannot close?  If so, I have never heard of it.

I say that if you give something a honest run, then there becomes three possibilities.  Either you succeed, or you give up, or you die trying.  And in the case of dying trying, you won't ever know how long it may have taken to get the job done, will you?  But there is no failing.  How can you say "I have failed, my genetics aren't good enough?"  That is essentially the same as giving up, is it not?

If there is ANY arguement for genetics, then it has more to do with mental genetics than anything else.

Aside from people with real life handicaps (mental or physical), I challenge anyone here to prove any individual genetically incapable of closing a #4 given the drive, the training wisdom, and the time to do it.

Ok, me. I don't have the genetics to close a #4.

That isn't proof, and I don't believe you. If you don't want to close a #4 then that is a different story... but I am 100% certain that you could if that's what you were after.

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Wannagrip

Your statement is made without any clue to my training background, time gripping, etc.

I'm not sure how old you are, but my guess would be you have little experience in the Iron Game and grip training.

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id say if you cant close a 2 right away you will never get to a 4.

id bet all 4 closers did a 2 right away.

the guys who battle with a trainer wont get a 4. ever.

I hope to prove this wrong.

As do I.

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mobsterone
Your statement is made without any clue to my training background, time gripping, etc.

I'm not sure how old you are, but my guess would be you have little experience in the Iron Game and grip training.

Come now Wanna. You've already made up your mind you ain't getting it - so you wont. I'd have preferred to have seen a sensible and valid argument as to why you will not and how you came at the answer rather than a 'and how old are you'.

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Wannagrip
Your statement is made without any clue to my training background, time gripping, etc.

I'm not sure how old you are, but my guess would be you have little experience in the Iron Game and grip training.

Come now Wanna. You've already made up your mind you ain't getting it - so you wont. I'd have preferred to have seen a sensible and valid argument as to why you will not and how you came at the answer rather than a 'and how old are you'.

Ok. How's this for facts.

I have to specialize on everything. Without dedication on grippers for example, I can't even close a #3. It took me YEARS to get to a #3 and it took the radical KTA program for me to get there.

So, there's some facts for you. One can't say I can just "find the right program". ;)

The fact is, he made the statement he did about me specifically without having a clue on my training background. It's like telling a dwarf they can make it to the NBA without first asking the guy's height! :rolleyes

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mobsterone

My shutting of the CoC3 was done as a specialization. I set aside time each day to work on it and at the time did no other grip work at all. Indeed I entered my first competition and trained for it only AFTER shutting the CoC 3.

What is it exactly that you think holds you back? Your answer could be invaluable in allowing the grip board to aide and assist others with their success, or in us telling them to work towards other targets. Who knows, maybe someone here may be able to help.

As for the program ;) maybe you need to read my book? he he ;);)

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Some people try to go through life with the attitude that anything is possible. Common sense is not common, and sometimes only comes to people later in life. Playing the hand you are dealt with is often the best advice. As usual pun intended. :D

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Your statement is made without any clue to my training background, time gripping, etc.

I'm not sure how old you are, but my guess would be you have little experience in the Iron Game and grip training.

Come now Wanna. You've already made up your mind you ain't getting it - so you wont. I'd have preferred to have seen a sensible and valid argument as to why you will not and how you came at the answer rather than a 'and how old are you'.

Ok. How's this for facts.

I have to specialize on everything. Without dedication on grippers for example, I can't even close a #3. It took me YEARS to get to a #3 and it took the radical KTA program for me to get there.

So, there's some facts for you. One can't say I can just "find the right program". ;)

The fact is, he made the statement he did about me specifically without having a clue on my training background. It's like telling a dwarf they can make it to the NBA without first asking the guy's height! :rolleyes

I'm 25, and have almost 10 years lifting experience, (lifting since I was 15) 2 of which was almost soley kettlebells, and dabbing in grip training. I am only in the last month really becoming more grip focused - can close the 1, the 2, and get to 9mm on the 3.

Second, a dwarf getting into the NBA and you closing the number 4 are not even in the same league. I know the argument was supposed to look convincing, but it's not.

What exactly am I supposed to know about your background before I judge this issue??? Do you have hands? Both of them? If you can answer "yes" to both questions, then sir, a nr. 4 is within your reach. Whether or not you have to specialize is not the issue. The issue was whether some people are genetically predispositioned to close a #4 or not... and I do not put so much faith in genetics. So in other words, methods were not put into question here. The only thing questioned was this whole "can / can't" thing as far as genetics goes.

I simply believe you are cutting yourself short because of a psychological block. If you already decided you can't do a 4, then OK, don't do it. But I'm gonna ignore that and shoot for it anyway. And I guarantee you, that as long as I don't quit on myself, die, or become handicapped, I will one day attain it. That's all.

I apologize for busting on you like this on your board, but it is just such a discouragement to see people hold themselves back...

Edited by Lich
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Why do we train at all? Why not just sit on the couch and watch Dukes of Hazard re-runs?

Why do you train at all Oldguy? Is it a do or die thing? Do you feel worse when you don't train? Feel better when you do? Accomplishment?

???

Personally, I'd rather spend all day on the internet and drink baileys tainted milkshakes. But I suppose my reasons for training are not that different from yours, and within those parameters, setting goals is the key for continued motivation.

>>edited<<

Also, why is everyone trying to bum everyone else out. You should be saying "yeah, go get that #4!" instead of bringing everyone down by telling them they may never get it.

>>edited again<<

Also, after two back injuries I was told I would never lift KB's again by three different docs. I have since snatched the 48 Kg bell. So F- genetics, and F- what people say is not possible.

Edited by Lich
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Wannagrip
My shutting of the CoC3 was done as a specialization. I set aside time each day to work on it and at the time did no other grip work at all. Indeed I entered my first competition and trained for it only AFTER shutting the CoC 3.

What is it exactly that you think holds you back? Your answer could be invaluable in allowing the grip board to aide and assist others with their success, or in us telling them to work towards other targets. Who knows, maybe someone here may be able to help.

As for the program  ;) maybe you need to read my book? he he  ;)  ;)

I would, but it's not a program. KTA is a program. ;)

It's called genetics Steve. Just like everyone can't create a Mr. Olympia or pro level phyisque, not everyone has the genetics to be a #4 closer.

Come one. You tell us you've been in the Iron Game for a long period of time and yet you can't tell potential when you see it and who has it and who does not after watching them train and looking at them?

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Wannagrip
I apologize for busting on you like this on your board, but it is just such a discouragement to see people hold themselves back...

HAH! Don't worry. I've seen a lot and heard a lot. You could call me a pussy or wuss. Sorry, no impact on me. :) I am not "holding myself back".

Especially, since like I said, you have no clue who I am, what my training history has been, and what my knowledge base is and how my mind works.

I never said people should not set goals and go for them. You must set goals that are out there and then set new goals when the old ones are achieved.

"Also, why is everyone trying to bum everyone else out. "

If someone gets "bummed out" by reading what others say, then they deserve to fail and will never attain their goals.

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Wannagrip

One other thing. The only reason I tend to speak up in these "genetics" threads is someone comes on here and starts touting they will be closing a #4 when they haven't even closed a #1 yet.

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But the Olympia is a much, much more difficult task than

gaining strength in your hand. They must workout their entire body

bombard them from all angles....all different sets and reps and themes.

Hoping to develop huge symettrical muscles...they do not necessarily have to be strong. They have to identify weak spots in their physique and try to bring them up to par with rest of their body.

We on the other hand must simply get stronger hands...they do not have to

be "pretty" or symettrical. They must simply be strong and getting stronger.

We have much less to be concerned with than them, and I think this would aid in the ability to achieve our objectives ..if the objective is closing the #4.

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What gripper are you able to master currently? Will you stop at nothing to in time close a #4?

Like I said above, I can close the 1, the 2, and I have about 9mm to go with the 3 on my right hand. Also like I said above, if I don't give up myself, and keep training for it, yes, I will close a 4 in time. It is a goal, albeit long term.

Sir, no disrespect intended, but I really don't understand this. Before Kinney closed the 4, people were saying it was not closeable. The 4 was created in 1994, and it took till 1998 before he officially closed it. A while to be sure, but it was done.

I'm on the GRIPBOARD, and I have people telling me that something is out of reach... I don't even want to discuss this anymore. If it's out of YOUR reach, then fine. I have work to do besides trying to convince people of their potential.

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mobsterone
It's called genetics Steve.  Just like everyone can't create a Mr. Olympia or pro level phyisque, not everyone has the genetics to be a #4 closer.

Come one. You tell us you've been in the Iron Game for a long period of time and yet you can't tell potential when you see it and who has it and who does not after watching them train and looking at them?

Tis true but grip isn't as easy to tell. You have outlifted me on many times on the powerlifts and yet I have a better crush than you have. More detail please.

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