Back To Single Wrap?

[Bob Lipinski]

Any thoughts about changing the "gripboard bending rules" back to allowing a single wrap?

Seems like the reason for the rule change pretty much died away when the same people bent the same things and didn't lose a beat. Apparently Eric really was strong and it wasn't the towel leverage killing the red .

Main reason I like the single wrap is that it is alot easier to get a tight wrap. It's one less thing to dick around with when setting up for a bend.

Either way. Just thought I'd throw this out there.

[mobsterone]

When I used one cloth I regularly seem to tear it in the middle. With two (the same ones from both the UK and EU comps - it's an old MetRx small face towel cut into two) it is slowly but surely becoming more and more hole filled. However, I'd say I'd have needed dozens of such cloths if I'd been using a single one for bends.

[Jedd Johnson]

Just a note - at the GGC, a single wrap is allowed, multiple wraps, leather, cordura, cloth, etc. However, no bracing, and no hidden objects. No gloves.

See rules list for any questions, or Email us at Diesel Crew.

-Jedd-

[Bob Lipinski]

Cool Jedd. Last I saw, you weren't allowing 1 wrap.

[AP]

I still use one wrap. I can wrap a nail in about 10seconds compared to 30+ trying to use double wraps (and I still can't get the damn things tight!). I've got a few holes in my towel but it's has so far outlasted 6 or so 6" grade 5 bolts, 2 5.5 grade 5s (and almost a third) and a heck of a lot of 60ds and blues and it's got a few workouts left in it.

[Mikael Siversson]

There does not seem to be much activity in the certification area of the gripboard. Some organisers of forearm strength competitions will allow folding, single cloths etc., whereas others will not. I don't think too many people are very concerned about which bending rules are in place for the gripboard bending certification.

[OldGuy]

Which competitions are you talking about? Offhand I can only recall the recent European. So almost no competition bending activity. By comparisom the Gripboard certification is hectic.

[Mikael Siversson]

The major ones (and several others), including last years BFGS; this years LGC XI, the Iron Grip Championship, The European Championship and the upcomming GGC. Any more questions Old Guy?

[Jedd Johnson]

Mikael, I understand your point with folding, but I will never undertand how you reason a terry cloth towel is going to help you bend, when by my expeirience, I have torn a hole in almost every single towel I have bent with. As a matter of fact, I think if it weren't for my shitty hand towel I single wrapped with in January in Minnesota I would have come a lot closer bending (Old Pat-style) a 4 inch blue nail.

Not to mention the fact that one ends up fighting against a single wrap towel, because it bunches in the middle and makes the crush down tougher.

If anything, my bending has gotten better since using separate towels.

Unless I am missing the point, I do not understand how a single wrap towel can help you bend, unless you are talking about mounding the thing up at the ends to reduce the pain threshhold requirements.

Sorry man. I've got lots of respect for you and your efforts in standardization, but I just can't fathom the single wrap terry cloth towel aregument.

Am I missing something?

-Jedd-

[Jedd Johnson]

Cool Jedd. Last I saw, you weren't allowing 1 wrap

Help me out, where'd you hear/see/or read that?

Thanks,

-Jedd-

[Bob Lipinski]

In the rules and entry pdf, it says that the rules will be the same as the gripboard bending rules. Double checked, that is still there, though I admit I might have missed something.

Just assumed two wraps would be used per gripboard rules.

[Jedd Johnson]

Thanks for the speedy reply. I had forgotten that.

It is a mistake. Single wraps will be allowed.

This and other rules modifications will be covered before each individual event.

-Jedd-

[EricMilfeld]

Bob, I personally, as you noted, have never gained any advantage by using a single towel (layered or not). I push downwards on the top of the nail while using my first two fingers as the fulcrum. I would guess this provides almost infinitely more leverage than would pulling downwards on any material, be it terrycloth or mesh steel. Pat told me that he believed an advantage could be gained by pulling on the ends of the cloth with a single towel, hence the reason for me choosing to keep this rule in place. Maybe Pat could provide more specifics on his findings in this area? I'm not asserting it's impossible to achieve this advantage with one towel, only that I've never experienced this advantage, though I've never specifically gone out of my way to achieve it. Has anyone else noticed a leverage advantage provided by the use of one towel? Who among us opposes changing this rule to allow for the use of one towel?

[MikeP]

Doesn't make a difference to me. When I swapped from 1 to 2, my wrap time went way up but my bend felt easier. No bunching on the crush and no fighting the wrap to get the bend going. It was pulling the rag apart in the middle, just more force needed. If somebody wants to wrap it single or double, doesn't matter to me, I could see advantages either way.

[Scott Styles]

I find using two wraps on a bend makes it much easier. Maybe you guys bending reds are so strong you barely notice, but fighting a yellow or blue it makes a huge difference.

[SqeezeMasterFlash]

I always prefered two wraps. That way (especially with really tough wrapping) your only fighting the bar, not the wrapping. What I always did before I went to two seperate wraps was to cut a single wrap about 90% of the way through down the middle. Gives you the benefits of two wraps with the speed of wrapping you'd get from using a single.

[nagual]

I never got any leverage advantage from using a single wrap. Infact, I find it significantly easier to use 2 wraps. This might be due to working against the wrap when only using a single, and I find this to be true even in the kink.

I bend reverse, and am changing to underhand, and this holds true with both styles.

As far as time/effort spent on wrapping with 2 pieces of cloth, I recently started using a stiff nylon-sort of material that keeps it's "shape", so I just slide the rolled pieces of cloth on, and then off when having finished the bend.

Edited September 15, 2004 by nagual

[terminator]

I have played around with a single towel and found that if you twist it tight (like most do) and have your hands way out at the ends of the bar, it becomes a distinct advantage. It may be more the effect of having one's hands so far out on the bar, or a combination of that with the leverage of pulling.

The original intent of the rule change was to try to force people to hold onto more of the bar. I never imagined that people would be able to keep a two piece wrap from flying off the bar holding way out on the ends but it seems to work for some. It would be great to insititute a maximum hand spread, but very difficult to write a rule because of the various lengths. I'm sure it would be a very popular rule as well. A 1.5-2 inch distance between fingers is reasonable for a 7 inch piece of steel and subtract accordingly for shorter bars. A 3,4,or 5 inch gap is unreasonable.....it makes 5/16" steel feel like 1/4" done properly.

To Bob's original question, I would be more inclined to pass a bend with a single wrap where the bender's hands are close together, than I would a double wrap where the hands are super wide apart. I don't know what to do about the rules, no matter what rules are written, there will always be someone who tries to figure an easy way within the rules instead of taking the longer route of getting stronger.

[Mikael Siversson]

I just wished all the moderators would stop removing my often completely non-offensive replies. This is getting plain silly. Sorry Jedd, I tried to reply.

[SHRUG]

Pat, I agree with your post 100%.

[mobsterone]

I just wished all the moderators would stop removing my often completely non-offensive replies. This is getting plain silly. Sorry Jedd, I tried to reply.

Join the gang, I had the same happen to me this week.

[Anuwbius]

I am curious, as to if the hands being spread apart applies to any style, including DU and revers, opposed to only high DO. I just did some experimenting, and there is no question that having your hands farther apart (i am using high DO) makes it easier. But on a six inch nail, with less then 1/2 inch between my index fingers, I was still able to push into the ends of the bar, just far less, hence having to make up the differnece with wrist strength. My question now is, is this pushing into the ends of the bar, however slight when your hands are that close, still considered the easy way out? A question I have been wanting to ask Pat is if you push into the ends of the bars at all, or is it completely a wrist motion (which is possible from that hand position, more a choice of preference.) This is not meant as an attack in anyway, just curiousity, and the want to find a style that fits me, but is truly wrist. ]

As for the wrapping, I feel that any leverage gained by a single wrap isnt gonna make the difference between actually bending and not bending a certain peice of steel. But just my opinion.

Edited September 15, 2004 by Anuwbius

[terminator]

I think everyone will "push" on the ends of the bar to some extent. Let me re-phrase that, the point of heaviest load will always be the ends of the bar, it's simple physics. Given the torques involved, nobody is strong enough to clamp a Red nail so hard as to equalize the forces along the length of the bar to the exclusion of the ends. Just don't turn a 7" bar into a 10" bar.

[Jedd Johnson]

I just wished all the moderators would stop removing my often completely non-offensive replies. This is getting plain silly. Sorry Jedd, I tried to reply.

Feel free to email me thru the Board System if you are getting deleted. I never saw anything you wrote after I replied directly to you.

-Jedd-

Edited September 15, 2004 by Jedd Johnson

[Bob Lipinski]

Strange, it just seems like everyone feels that their style is "best"- Brookfield+Mikeal think pushing on the ends is bad completely, Pat thinks it's okay to do it, but only the amount that he does.

Pat, you are a great bender-

"A 3,4,or 5 inch gap is unreasonable.....it makes 5/16" steel feel like 1/4" done properly."

Then just bend thicker steel! Do something outrageous.

Gosh, I know this is kinda a circle jerk argument cause in the end we will all bend how we want.

"there will always be someone who tries to figure an easy way within the rules instead of taking the longer route of getting stronger."

In my view, that's how feats of strength always go. Whether it be bench pressing or clean and jerking, people are competitive and the most effecient form+the most strength will win. Everyone tries to maximize their leverage for a given feat, that is just the nature of trying to get better.