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mightyjoe

Future Of Rating Grippers!

83 posts in this topic

Wanted to share with everyone something I've been experimenting with since December of

last year. I received a digital crane scale as a Christmas gift and originally I had planned on making

a arm wrestling type dyno to measure one's pulling forces from various angles but instead I tried

a NEW method for rating grippers. I've attached some pics of the setup below so you can get an idea

of what I've come up with.

A little background first. Ever since I had a RGC device I instantly started trying to think of a better more

efficient and accurate method to accomplish rating grippers without all the manual labor, back aches, fumbling with

a jack to raise the weight up and down, etc. and in the process have a repeatable, accurate method that can be

consistently used by anyone to come to the same conclusions on rating grippers. Well! I have done just that and I've

done numerous tests to get all the bumps out of the method and I can assure you this is by far the most accurate

method I have personally found to date. You never have to lift a weight plate and the speed and accuracy at which you can rate a lot of grippers is stunning! My last test was completed today before I decided to go public with my idea and I can envision this method being the future of rating grippers. Yes! You'll have to shell out the money for a quality dynamometer to perform this method but the cost is well worth it! Today I rated 7 very strong grippers and seen what kind of time I was looking at and I completed the process in under 30 minutes and some of that time was going in the house for a drink. I wanted to video this process today as well but the humidity was overwhelming and I didn't want to put my camera gear at risk to condensation from fogging.

The dynamometer I now use to rate grippers is a Chatillion CCR 440 with an accuracy of +/- 0.2% at full scale. These are classified as crane scales and are very reliable and accurate. I have a Certificate of Calibration with this dyno and it has worked flawlessly! In conjunction with this dyno I use a hand ratchet strap system to ratchet down the gripper handle till they touch and then press the hold function to record the reading. It also has a tare function to zero the meter in certain circumstances which is a bonus for any dyno/scales. I tested and retested this dyno with another certified scale I use to weigh weight plates and they both coincide precisely!

The tests I performed was to take "x" amount of sample grippers (now 20) that was rated the conventional method and compare these findings to the findings of the Digital Dyno Method. Every single sample gripper came out within a pound and less. Only one gripper was at the one pound mark. All the other samples were within ounces. These tests confirmed several things. 1) It verified that my previous method was accurate and apparently done correctly despite others saying my results were always low. 2) results/findings are repeatable in comparison to the current method of too many people

coming up with different ratings for the same gripper.

The purpose of me sharing this information and idea is to hopefully spur others that take accuracy and repeatability

of rating grippers seriously and take the leap and perhaps give this method a try. If we as a community don't take our sport serious and apply science to our standards then no one else will take us serious either.

Lastly, I always cringed when someone would ask me what RGC stood for and I just hated to use the word red neck

when trying to describe a process that was intended to be an accurate method for rating grippers. Just didn't sound right to me! I will now tell others when they ask that I use the DDM (Digital Dyno Method) to rate grippers. Sounds better than

a Red Neck Gripper Calibrator in my view. Before anyone says I'm making fun of or poking at the RGC method, I'm not!!! I'm saying that there is now a better way! RGC is all we've had to work with and we did the best we could. I can't speak for anyone else but I'm always thinking outside the box and I constantly look for ways to improve whatever it is I set out to accomplish. No more back aches for me when I rate grippers! :) No more dreading to rate a monster gripper because of tossing around a bunch of heavy ass weight plates and hoping that the whole mess doesn't fall over and kill somebody. :(

Any input or further suggestions is appreciated! I always welcome criticism as long as it's positive in nature

and is intended to make things better. Bring it on!!!

Thanks!!!

Here's a list of the BIG grippers I rated using the DDM today along with the results in pounds:

GHP 8 = 173.4, GHP 9 = 214.6, AG 5 band = 208.2, Tetting WC = 277.2, Shorty Elite = 196.6, Shorty SE = 218.8

and a Shorty GE = 223.0 Note: Shorty's are a set of grippers I had custom made by Warren Tetting with 3-1/4" handle length instead of the conventional 3-3/4" length. These are perfect no-set grippers BTW!

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Very cool!

Definitely a faster, more reliable way to rate.

Liking the decision that you didn't shorten it to DDR (Digital Dyno Rating... also Dance Dance Revolution)

Although the dyno here is pretty expensive, hope this catches on.

As a perk, weights can be measured accurately like this too!

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Very nice ! I just started rating my grippers rgc, This looks alot easier and accurate.

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I dig it.

Edit: would prolly work well with steel calibrations as well.

Edited by mudhutmasher
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I dig it.

Edit: would prolly work well with steel calibrations as well.

Good thinking Tommy! I believe it would work well except for the fact that you'd have to get a higher rated

dyno because this model goes to 440 lbs/200kg.

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The future of gripper rating is going to mean a graph of gripper strength done every mm etc to create a graph showing force needed throughout the close from start to finish. I have no idea what it will take to do that but closing force number alone is not enough information to tell much about the feel in the hand of various grippers.

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The future of gripper rating is going to mean a graph of gripper strength done every mm etc to create a graph showing force needed throughout the close from start to finish. I have no idea what it will take to do that but closing force number alone is not enough information to tell much about the feel in the hand of various grippers.

I agree with Joe's summary...a much more repeatable and efficient procedure.. I also agree that grippers have different resistances throughout their ROM. Would be great to know that info also.

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Aaron's been RGC'ing grippers with a force meter for over a year, maybe longer. I have used his setup at his place, and you do have to be careful about how you tar the device, before you start to leverage the gripper closed. There's a couple of ways you could record the position of the handle along with the force applied at that current position. At which point the question becomes, do you want to rank grippers by max force at close, or integrate the total force curve over the starting position at set through close? I'm sure there's a discussion and experimentation to be had there as well, but it comes down to how complicated does one want to make these things? For a comp maybe, but for training, I think it's a bit much, even if one automated the RGC procedure.

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Joe,

Very interesting Article.

One Question I have had for a long time (although a little off-toptic). Where do you place the strap on the gripper handle - at the very end of the gripper handle or at the middle of the gripper handle?

Lee Hayward on behalf of HG said HG rates their grippers at the middle of the gripper handle. ( the Cannon wedsite also rates the CofC much lower than Ironmind. Does Ironmind also rate the CofC at the middle of the gripper handle?)

It would nice if all gripper companies would rate their grippers the same way.

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Aaron's been RGC'ing grippers with a force meter for over a year, maybe longer. I have used his setup at his place, and you do have to be careful about how you tar the device, before you start to leverage the gripper closed. There's a couple of ways you could record the position of the handle along with the force applied at that current position. At which point the question becomes, do you want to rank grippers by max force at close, or integrate the total force curve over the starting position at set through close? I'm sure there's a discussion and experimentation to be had there as well, but it comes down to how complicated does one want to make these things? For a comp maybe, but for training, I think it's a bit much, even if one automated the RGC procedure.

I would love to see Aaron's setup! Yes! You have to aware of numerous variables when setting up the gripper and

as you ratchet down the handle. This is why I used a power rack with the attachment method I used. Simply screwing a bolt into the floor

as an anchor is not optimal due to the angles involved as you ratchet the handle down. Has to be adjustable in my estimation.

Lastly, I've never heard anyone at a grip comp say they wonder what the strength curve was of that gripper they just closed.

You must admit that the majority care about max force to close the gripper.

Thanks for the input!!!

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Lastly, I've never heard anyone at a grip comp say they wonder what the strength curve was of that gripper they just closed. You must admit that the majority care about max force to close the gripper.

You really need to go to more comps and close more rated grippers with different numbers then. At comps in the past and then at Nationals this year (and several of us since then) have had (and are currently having) discussions about what grippers RGC and how they close.- with lower numbers feeling harder and higher numbers feeling easier at times. There is much more to the story than just the final closing force. When Dave and Greg cme up with the RGC it wasn't really meant to be used quite the way we have morphed it into over the years. It was called Redneck for a reason.. It does give a whole lot better idea of resistance than #1 - #2 - SM - GM etc and at the moment its the best we have - but we do need a better mousetrap so to speak if we wish to really know the whole story. Joe - your way is certainly easier and quicker and I wish I had had one when I was doing all the ratings I did - it's probably as accurate but no more accurate overall though than the results obtained by those of us who have done hundreds of grippers before and have a good system developed like Matt, Eric, and Aaron for example. Honestly for training you are correect but for National level competition and promoters who really care - we need better.

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Chris, this method will easily make that graph you speak of.

All that needs to be done is to pull the handles down slowly and the force throughout is always displayed on the reading.

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Lastly, I've never heard anyone at a grip comp say they wonder what the strength curve was of that gripper they just closed. You must admit that the majority care about max force to close the gripper.

You really need to go to more comps and close more rated grippers with different numbers then. At comps in the past and then at Nationals this year (and several of us since then) have had (and are currently having) discussions about what grippers RGC and how they close.- with lower numbers feeling harder and higher numbers feeling easier at times. There is much more to the story than just the final closing force. When Dave and Greg cme up with the RGC it wasn't really meant to be used quite the way we have morphed it into over the years. It was called Redneck for a reason.. It does give a whole lot better idea of resistance than #1 - #2 - SM - GM etc and at the moment its the best we have - but we do need a better mousetrap so to speak if we wish to really know the whole story. Joe - your way is certainly easier and quicker and I wish I had had one when I was doing all the ratings I did - it's probably as accurate but no more accurate overall though than the results obtained by those of us who have done hundreds of grippers before and have a good system developed like Matt, Eric, and Aaron for example. Honestly for training you are correect but for National level competition and promoters who really care - we need better.

another thing to consider is the variability of crushing strength of the hand throughout it's range of motion. when we know that paired with the actually resistance needed to move a gripper throughout it's various degrees of motion, we can get a real sense of which grippers are harder to close.

for instance, i'd like to know why GHP grippers seem harder to close than similarly rated CoC grippers. is it only because a slightly wider spread? or is there more to it?

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Chris, this method will easily make that graph you speak of.

All that needs to be done is to pull the handles down slowly and the force throughout is always displayed on the reading.

Well, it's a bit more involved than that. One has to output the force as a signal to a data acquisition card, and then come up with a way to syncronously record close angle. It can be done It's just the time & expense. There's other ways one could estimate close angle as well, and sync that up with the force measurements.

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Chris, this method will easily make that graph you speak of.

All that needs to be done is to pull the handles down slowly and the force throughout is always displayed on the reading.

Well, it's a bit more involved than that. One has to output the force as a signal to a data acquisition card, and then come up with a way to syncronously record close angle. It can be done It's just the time & expense. There's other ways one could estimate close angle as well, and sync that up with the force measurements.

I have looked into this exact thing and done some design work towards it. Was gonna add a bluetooth transmitter in the digital scale for the data logging to transmit to the PC as well as an angular position sensor for the handle. Unfortunately it is just lower on my current priorities list to get this done. The easy way would be to use multiple sizes of set blocks an check rating through the range. I plan to do this soon on a couple of the grippers I have to chart the spring rate so I can try to match it with another project.

btw, Joe I sent you something via PM on my RGC.

- Aaron

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Chris, this method will easily make that graph you speak of.

All that needs to be done is to pull the handles down slowly and the force throughout is always displayed on the reading.

Well, it's a bit more involved than that. One has to output the force as a signal to a data acquisition card, and then come up with a way to syncronously record close angle. It can be done It's just the time & expense. There's other ways one could estimate close angle as well, and sync that up with the force measurements.

I've thought that through too, but didn't have time to include that. Still don't, so I'll respond with a diagram when I can.

It's not that difficult, I think.

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Chris, this method will easily make that graph you speak of.

All that needs to be done is to pull the handles down slowly and the force throughout is always displayed on the reading.

Well, it's a bit more involved than that. One has to output the force as a signal to a data acquisition card, and then come up with a way to syncronously record close angle. It can be done It's just the time & expense. There's other ways one could estimate close angle as well, and sync that up with the force measurements.

I've thought that through too, but didn't have time to include that. Still don't, so I'll respond with a diagram when I can.

It's not that difficult, I think.

You could record percentage points between fully open and closed the more the smoother and more accurate the graph. An automated system would be nice but you could just measure the deflection then divide it up and measure force at the corresponding points.

It's a system I use when rating springs that couldn't maintain full compression without distortion, being that they are already over-stressed, these are still useful as their working range is usually sub 50 percentile, if that.

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Wow are sport is growing I tell ya, I need to get my grippers rated one day myself :grin: Great to hear of how to do this, and the means to be accurate for max force to close grippers. At the end of the day, "Let's Close Those Grippers" :rock

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Good idea Joe. I've also dreamed up many other ways to streamline the process, or take weights out of the equation, etc. Thank you for experimenting with this.

I'm saving my money for a computerized rig like this. :D You could map anything you wanted:

(If you know how to make this happen, please contact me. :flowers: )

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When Dave and Greg cme up with the RGC it wasn't really meant to be used quite the way we have morphed it into over the years. It was called Redneck for a reason.

I often wonder if the two of them are amused as to where it went after their initial fun little gadget got a life of its own.

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Joe,

Very interesting Article.

One Question I have had for a long time (although a little off-toptic). Where do you place the strap on the gripper handle - at the very end of the gripper handle or at the middle of the gripper handle?

Lee Hayward on behalf of HG said HG rates their grippers at the middle of the gripper handle. ( the Cannon wedsite also rates the CofC much lower than Ironmind. Does Ironmind also rate the CofC at the middle of the gripper handle?)

It would nice if all gripper companies would rate their grippers the same way.

Gary,

For RGC, you add the strap to the end of the knurling, not necessarily the end of the handle.

I did not know Lee did this for HG. Where did you see this? What were the numbers he got?

IronMind numbers do not come from a rating device as far as I know.

Jedd

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Lastly, I've never heard anyone at a grip comp say they wonder what the strength curve was of that gripper they just closed. You must admit that the majority care about max force to close the gripper.

You really need to go to more comps and close more rated grippers with different numbers then. At comps in the past and then at Nationals this year (and several of us since then) have had (and are currently having) discussions about what grippers RGC and how they close.- with lower numbers feeling harder and higher numbers feeling easier at times. There is much more to the story than just the final closing force. When Dave and Greg cme up with the RGC it wasn't really meant to be used quite the way we have morphed it into over the years. It was called Redneck for a reason.. It does give a whole lot better idea of resistance than #1 - #2 - SM - GM etc and at the moment its the best we have - but we do need a better mousetrap so to speak if we wish to really know the whole story. Joe - your way is certainly easier and quicker and I wish I had had one when I was doing all the ratings I did - it's probably as accurate but no more accurate overall though than the results obtained by those of us who have done hundreds of grippers before and have a good system developed like Matt, Eric, and Aaron for example. Honestly for training you are correect but for National level competition and promoters who really care - we need better.

Okay? I can handle the criticism but you failed to mention what's better.

I strongly disagree that strength curves would mean anything in a contest. Explain why please. I've been to grip contests

and I've rated hundreds of grippers myself although I don't advertise it (mainly my own experiments).

Like I said I can handle criticism when it's accompanied with a solution or an answer, you provided neither Chris.

Better in what way? How accurate do you expect? Do we need a controlled environment to meet the specs of these dynamometers

so that we stay at a certain temperature and humidity? We can get as technical as you'd like but we must be reasonable as well.

You care to allow me to rate your 185 gripper from the Nationals so we can compare findings? Then pass it on to Eric, Matt and whoever

else you deem necessary?

I eagerly await your response with explanations and not just stabs at someone trying to improve upon what we already have.

Yes! RGC was called redneck for a reason and NOW things have evolved and we need to move forward with better ways and more

accurate names to clarify what we mean. Agree? I could be wrong but it seems you don't like change and it also appears that

you get defensive fairly easy. There's always better ways if people are willing to search it out, experiment, and then share the results.

This is what I try and do to try and make things better and more efficient for everyone! I'm not a bad guy here I just say things others will not.

Peace!

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The future of gripper rating is going to mean a graph of gripper strength done every mm etc to create a graph showing force needed throughout the close from start to finish. I have no idea what it will take to do that but closing force number alone is not enough information to tell much about the feel in the hand of various grippers.

Chris - I did this several years back and to my surprise I plotted a straight line with good correlation coefficient. This is when I started coming up with the theory of secondary forces that are not measured by a one dimensional rating device like the RGC or what Joe has here - which is very cool by the way and also something I have thought about doing in the past. There is rotational force on the handles and a spreading of the spring when the gripper is closed in the hand that causes it to feel different than the one dimensional rating. Take an easy gripper and close it with your right hand and measure the gap between the spring coil on top. Now close it in your left hand and measure the gap. It's much larger in the left - it takes force to move those handles together in an unnatural range of motion for a torsion spring. This is what I call "secondary forces". A right hand gripper does not require as much deflection of the spring across the spring coil when closed in the right hand than it does in the left. Consequently it's harder to close the gripper in the left hand. Ever wonder why you are just as strong or stronger with the left hand when using an extension spring device like a Vulcan or Ivanko SG? There are no secondary forces - these extension spring devices only move in one plane. Unfortunately a one dimensional rating device does not measure these secondary forces. Force is only being measured in one plane. Anyway I welcome anyone else doing this and proving or disproving me. I used a simple RGC setup and micrometer to measure the deflection of the handles at different loads then plotted it up. I was very surprised at the results but after thinking it through it made sense to me.

Wade

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The future of gripper rating is going to mean a graph of gripper strength done every mm etc to create a graph showing force needed throughout the close from start to finish. I have no idea what it will take to do that but closing force number alone is not enough information to tell much about the feel in the hand of various grippers.

Chris - I did this several years back and to my surprise I plotted a straight line with good correlation coefficient. This is when I started coming up with the theory of secondary forces that are not measured by a one dimensional rating device like the RGC or what Joe has here - which is very cool by the way and also something I have thought about doing in the past. There is rotational force on the handles and a spreading of the spring when the gripper is closed in the hand that causes it to feel different than the one dimensional rating. Take an easy gripper and close it with your right hand and measure the gap between the spring coil on top. Now close it in your left hand and measure the gap. It's much larger in the left - it takes force to move those handles together in an unnatural range of motion for a torsion spring. This is what I call "secondary forces". A right hand gripper does not require as much deflection of the spring across the spring coil when closed in the right hand than it does in the left. Consequently it's harder to close the gripper in the left hand. Ever wonder why you are just as strong or stronger with the left hand when using an extension spring device like a Vulcan or Ivanko SG? There are no secondary forces - these extension spring devices only move in one plane. Unfortunately a one dimensional rating device does not measure these secondary forces. Force is only being measured in one plane. Anyway I welcome anyone else doing this and proving or disproving me. I used a simple RGC setup and micrometer to measure the deflection of the handles at different loads then plotted it up. I was very surprised at the results but after thinking it through it made sense to me.

Wade

Wade, love the theory here and this is beyond interesting but Chris is suggesting we need better than just an accurate (which I have)

number for the total force needed to close a gripper in a contest such as the Nationals. Okay! In what way and how would this better way

reflect in the scores at a contest? I can see a manufacturer of grippers knowing the strength curve of their grippers for advertising the

feel of the sweep but the sweep is not relevant in a contest unless it is somehow used in the final scoring. What difference does it make?

You can either close said gripper or you cannot. Very simple! Chris also implied that we already have in place RGC's that are just as

accurate as my method (and Aaron's) but yet we see numbers all over the place among those performing RGC ratings. I was simply

( and have succeeded) trying to come up with a way to get the ratings more accurate and remove several important variables that we

can't know for sure that everyone is doing such as having their plates accurately weighed. Also, there's never been a number agreed upon

for the tolerances at which we are to accept rated grippers. Do we get it down to the ounce, gram, 1/4 pound, half pound, etc? Further,

you have guys rating grippers and they come up with say 150.25 lbs. but yet there smallest increment of weight to add is one pound.

Sorry! Doesn't work that way! The only way that .25 would have meaning is if you had smaller than 1 pound increments. Think about it!

This is why we need agreed upon tolerances if grippers are to be used at contests.

Lastly, one reason I contacted Baseline about a competitive model grip dynamometer with possible knurling on one side is to have

the option of using a dynamometer at contests such as the Nationals. Sure would solve a lot of problems in my estimation. I'm not saying

remove grippers from contests but at least have an outlined method that's agreed upon and is repeatable for anyone within a given tolerance.

Thinking ahead here but I would like to read Chris's suggestions on the rated grippers used at Nationals being they would have to better than

what we already have. How many grippers is someone going to pay for Chris? You say make them adjustable? Okay, we are already as a

community trying to figure out ways to save time at contests. Do you think this would help solve that problem? Fiddling around with adjusting

grippers depths would be time consuming for sure. having /using the same set of grippers at Nationals is fine but IMO you are adding more

problems to the pot, not removing them. Who would rate them and how? You say we need better without any clarification whatsoever!

These problems should have been tackled long ago. We now have a large database of rated grippers of which no 2 people agree

upon at how they come to their conclusion and in Chris's estimation is still not good enough for Nationals! let's hash this out and come

to agreements folks! As I said bring it on brothers!!! Debate is good guys! Join in and let's solve problems here and not create more!

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The future of gripper rating is going to mean a graph of gripper strength done every mm etc to create a graph showing force needed throughout the close from start to finish. I have no idea what it will take to do that but closing force number alone is not enough information to tell much about the feel in the hand of various grippers.

Chris - I did this several years back and to my surprise I plotted a straight line with good correlation coefficient. This is when I started coming up with the theory of secondary forces that are not measured by a one dimensional rating device like the RGC or what Joe has here - which is very cool by the way and also something I have thought about doing in the past. There is rotational force on the handles and a spreading of the spring when the gripper is closed in the hand that causes it to feel different than the one dimensional rating. Take an easy gripper and close it with your right hand and measure the gap between the spring coil on top. Now close it in your left hand and measure the gap. It's much larger in the left - it takes force to move those handles together in an unnatural range of motion for a torsion spring. This is what I call "secondary forces". A right hand gripper does not require as much deflection of the spring across the spring coil when closed in the right hand than it does in the left. Consequently it's harder to close the gripper in the left hand. Ever wonder why you are just as strong or stronger with the left hand when using an extension spring device like a Vulcan or Ivanko SG? There are no secondary forces - these extension spring devices only move in one plane. Unfortunately a one dimensional rating device does not measure these secondary forces. Force is only being measured in one plane. Anyway I welcome anyone else doing this and proving or disproving me. I used a simple RGC setup and micrometer to measure the deflection of the handles at different loads then plotted it up. I was very surprised at the results but after thinking it through it made sense to me.

Wade

Wade, love the theory here and this is beyond interesting but Chris is suggesting we need better than just an accurate (which I have)

number for the total force needed to close a gripper in a contest such as the Nationals. Okay! In what way and how would this better way

reflect in the scores at a contest? I can see a manufacturer of grippers knowing the strength curve of their grippers for advertising the

feel of the sweep but the sweep is not relevant in a contest unless it is somehow used in the final scoring. What difference does it make?

You can either close said gripper or you cannot. Very simple! Chris also implied that we already have in place RGC's that are just as

accurate as my method (and Aaron's) but yet we see numbers all over the place among those performing RGC ratings. I was simply

( and have succeeded) trying to come up with a way to get the ratings more accurate and remove several important variables that we

can't know for sure that everyone is doing such as having their plates accurately weighed. Also, there's never been a number agreed upon

for the tolerances at which we are to accept rated grippers. Do we get it down to the ounce, gram, 1/4 pound, half pound, etc? Further,

you have guys rating grippers and they come up with say 150.25 lbs. but yet there smallest increment of weight to add is one pound.

Sorry! Doesn't work that way! The only way that .25 would have meaning is if you had smaller than 1 pound increments. Think about it!

This is why we need agreed upon tolerances if grippers are to be used at contests.

Lastly, one reason I contacted Baseline about a competitive model grip dynamometer with possible knurling on one side is to have

the option of using a dynamometer at contests such as the Nationals. Sure would solve a lot of problems in my estimation. I'm not saying

remove grippers from contests but at least have an outlined method that's agreed upon and is repeatable for anyone within a given tolerance.

Thinking ahead here but I would like to read Chris's suggestions on the rated grippers used at Nationals being they would have to better than

what we already have. How many grippers is someone going to pay for Chris? You say make them adjustable? Okay, we are already as a

community trying to figure out ways to save time at contests. Do you think this would help solve that problem? Fiddling around with adjusting

grippers depths would be time consuming for sure. having /using the same set of grippers at Nationals is fine but IMO you are adding more

problems to the pot, not removing them. Who would rate them and how? You say we need better without any clarification whatsoever!

These problems should have been tackled long ago. We now have a large database of rated grippers of which no 2 people agree

upon at how they come to their conclusion and in Chris's estimation is still not good enough for Nationals! let's hash this out and come

to agreements folks! As I said bring it on brothers!!! Debate is good guys! Join in and let's solve problems here and not create more!

I don't think you can get much more accurate than the way you are trying to do it Joe or the way a really experienced guy like Eric, Aaron, or Matt do it with plates. The way a gripper feels differs from the number you will get measuring force in one plane and is dependent on a number of things: spring geometry (the way the legs align with the spring coil), wire diameter (affects overall spring coil width and handle alignment), handle knurl (affects ability to relieve rotational torque of the handle against the skin), etc.. This is just something that needs to be accepted in my opinion. If the grip community wants to get away from this then contests should be done using Vulcan or Vulcan like extension spring grippers that are fixed to only move in one plane. A hand dyno would be fine but it's not a dynamic crush movement like a gripper, so it should be it's own event. I feel the same about the Silver Bullet hold.

Good ideas with this rater Joe. I like the idea of using a strap winch to pull the handles together. It's crude but a good first cut - something that moves in smaller increments would eventually be better so you can capture the force at the exact point the handles touch.

Wade

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