Saxon training rep ranges

[EmilBB]

I have never really trained anything other than grippers when it comes to grip training, so I'm not sure which rep ranges to train for saxon.
Seems like if I do too many reps then the chalk starts wearing off and the reps end up getting sloppy, so I'm thinking about doing something like 5-8 sets of 2-3 reps, that way I can really nail down the technique with heavy weights.

Everyone is of course different but I'm curious to hear what the experienced guys on here have to say, then I can try to experiment with the advice I get and see what works best for me. 

[Vinnie]

One thing I will say about Saxon Bar (and most pinch for me, including one hand, and even hub), which I have competed frequently but not trained as much as I should have for someone who has competed a lot:  It is the event where I feel like I keep getting stronger on it for the longest period of continuous training during one session at low reps.  I make that statement from this perspective:  almost invariably, when I compete on Saxon bar (and most pinch lifts), I try a rep near my max during warm-up (provided this is possible, usually because of a second implement being used for warm-ups, etc.).  I do this to get a sense of where I will likely end up on my last attempt.  Then I start low, with practice reps or, if last man standing with unlimited attempts, real attempts.  Almost without fail, the near max rep feels easier by the time I do it for my official attempt (after the 5 to 10 gradually increasing reps from easy to near max), and sometimes the next weight after that near max even seems a little easier despite being heavier than the attempt before it-- and then I end up with a PR.  This happened to me at King Kong this year, on the IM block, where I ended a few pounds higher than last year despite not having trained it at all.  For the whole year.  I just did the right escalation from easy warm-ups to max, perhaps in a better sequence than last year.  But I KNOW I would not have gotten that last lift earlier, before all the previous attempts that ramped me up.

I relate this experience because it is NOT what happens to me on thick bar, or grippers, or vertical lifts, where there is a sweet spot not too deep into my effort where I will max out, much sooner than with pinch.  For grippers, for example, I will usually hit my best number closer to the time I warm up and not after a whole lot of reps; for thickbar, I am almost as good without warming up at all as I am with warm up, but certainly not at my best after many reps.

Your results may vary of course.

[Blacksmith513]

1 minute ago, Vinnie said:

One thing I will say about Saxon Bar (and most pinch for me, including one hand, and even hub), which I have competed frequently but not trained as much as I should have for someone who has competed a lot:  It is the event where I feel like I keep getting stronger on it for the longest period of continuous training during one session at low reps.  I make that statement from this perspective:  almost invariably, when I compete on Saxon bar (and most pinch lifts), I try a rep near my max during warm-up (provided this is possible, usually because of a second implement being used for warm-ups, etc.).  I do this to get a sense of where I will likely end up on my last attempt.  Then I start low, with practice reps or, if last man standing with unlimited attempts, real attempts.  Almost without fail, the near max rep feels easier by the time I do it for my official attempt (after the 5 to 10 gradually increasing reps from easy to near max), and sometimes the next weight after that near max even seems a little easier despite being heavier than the attempt before it-- and then I end up with a PR.  This happened to me at King Kong this year, on the IM block, where I ended a few pounds higher than last year despite not having trained it at all.  For the whole year.  I just did the right escalation from easy warm-ups to max, perhaps in a better sequence than last year.  But I KNOW I would not have gotten that last lift earlier, before all the previous attempts that ramped me up.

I relate this experience because it is NOT what happens to me on thick bar, or grippers, or vertical lifts, where there is a sweet spot not too deep into my effort where I will max out, much sooner than with pinch.  For grippers, for example, I will usually hit my best number closer to the time I warm up and not after a whole lot of reps; for thickbar, I am almost as good without warming up at all as I am with warm up, but certainly not at my best after many reps.

Your results may vary of course.

This

[Fist of Fury]

Re-chalk. Or don't use chalk at all.

Pinch is completely dependant on friction. If the friction changes constantly it will be very hard for you to measure your progress. The exact same weight with only 20-30% less chalk is a completely different lift. 

Of course you would like to do the same lift on your eight rep as you do when you start the set. That's the point with doing repetitions.

[EmilBB]

20 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

One thing I will say about Saxon Bar (and most pinch for me, including one hand, and even hub), which I have competed frequently but not trained as much as I should have for someone who has competed a lot:  It is the event where I feel like I keep getting stronger on it for the longest period of continuous training during one session at low reps.  I make that statement from this perspective:  almost invariably, when I compete on Saxon bar (and most pinch lifts), I try a rep near my max during warm-up (provided this is possible, usually because of a second implement being used for warm-ups, etc.).  I do this to get a sense of where I will likely end up on my last attempt.  Then I start low, with practice reps or, if last man standing with unlimited attempts, real attempts.  Almost without fail, the near max rep feels easier by the time I do it for my official attempt (after the 5 to 10 gradually increasing reps from easy to near max), and sometimes the next weight after that near max even seems a little easier despite being heavier than the attempt before it-- and then I end up with a PR.  This happened to me at King Kong this year, on the IM block, where I ended a few pounds higher than last year despite not having trained it at all.  For the whole year.  I just did the right escalation from easy warm-ups to max, perhaps in a better sequence than last year.  But I KNOW I would not have gotten that last lift earlier, before all the previous attempts that ramped me up.

I relate this experience because it is NOT what happens to me on thick bar, or grippers, or vertical lifts, where there is a sweet spot not too deep into my effort where I will max out, much sooner than with pinch.  For grippers, for example, I will usually hit my best number closer to the time I warm up and not after a whole lot of reps; for thickbar, I am almost as good without warming up at all as I am with warm up, but certainly not at my best after many reps.

Your results may vary of course.

Thanks Vinnie, this is solid advice since I'm gonna compete on Saxon in 3 months time. 
It sounds like warming up gradually is important, I'll try this approach for my training too.

[EmilBB]

22 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Pinch is completely dependant on friction. If the friction changes constantly it will be very hard for you to measure your progress.

That's why I thought doing less reps but more sets might be better, since the chalk should stay the same over 2-3 reps compared to like 8 reps.

I sometimes do re-chalk in the middle of a high rep set but for some reason I end up feeling worse off, probably just my lack of experience with friction lifts. It'll get better over time I'm sure.

[Blacksmith513]

13 minutes ago, EmilBB said:

Thanks Vinnie, this is solid advice since I'm gonna compete on Saxon in 3 months time. 
It sounds like warming up gradually is important, I'll try this approach for my training too.

Very important. It takes me a while to warm up for pinch. Micro plates are good. Sometimes after warm ups and I’m still not hitting goal weight for the day. I back down a few lbs and work up in increments. Usually it gets the cns fired up.

also be mindful of thumb placement.. make contact with the bony inner part of the thumb. If that makes sense.

[Fist of Fury]

56 minutes ago, EmilBB said:

That's why I thought doing less reps but more sets might be better, since the chalk should stay the same over 2-3 reps compared to like 8 reps.

I sometimes do re-chalk in the middle of a high rep set but for some reason I end up feeling worse off, probably just my lack of experience with friction lifts. It'll get better over time I'm sure.

You might be adding too much chalk. That's not good either. You need to learn how to chalk optimally. This will be different depending on what surface it is. So that's something you have to practice. Also the hands should not be chalked too much either.

[EmilBB]

28 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

You might be adding too much chalk. That's not good either. You need to learn how to chalk optimally. This will be different depending on what surface it is. So that's something you have to practice. Also the hands should not be chalked too much either.

I'm definitely doing something wrong, so I'll have to figure that out.

But you have definitely convinced me that I should paint my saxon, because right now it's bare steel but the one in my comp is gonna be painted. So I need to get accustomed to that, since it probably changes how much chalk is needed.

[Ivan Cuk]

10 hours ago, EmilBB said:

I have never really trained anything other than grippers when it comes to grip training, so I'm not sure which rep ranges to train for saxon.
Seems like if I do too many reps then the chalk starts wearing off and the reps end up getting sloppy, so I'm thinking about doing something like 5-8 sets of 2-3 reps, that way I can really nail down the technique with heavy weights.

Everyone is of course different but I'm curious to hear what the experienced guys on here have to say, then I can try to experiment with the advice I get and see what works best for me. 

For Saxon the wrist flexion is an important aspect since the bar rotates, I'd say if you're new to doing Saxon deadlifts you can get away with sets of 6-10 reps since the total load will not be as high. It's when the weight gets so heavy that your wrist can only maintain flat position against it where webbing tears and chalk wearing out are unavoidable. Train in all rep ranges in the beginning, also include wrist curls 6-12 reps 3-4 sets as it will help immensely with the Saxon. I found the pinch block is good for higher reps as well, technique work can occur with heavier weights but I'd say build a base with your Saxon first. You can get plenty of skill work with lighter loads for more quality reps. However sets of 1-3 reps can work as well  

[EmilBB]

8 hours ago, Ivan Cuk said:

For Saxon the wrist flexion is an important aspect since the bar rotates, I'd say if you're new to doing Saxon deadlifts you can get away with sets of 6-10 reps since the total load will not be as high. It's when the weight gets so heavy that your wrist can only maintain flat position against it where webbing tears and chalk wearing out are unavoidable. Train in all rep ranges in the beginning, also include wrist curls 6-12 reps 3-4 sets as it will help immensely with the Saxon. I found the pinch block is good for higher reps as well, technique work can occur with heavier weights but I'd say build a base with your Saxon first. You can get plenty of skill work with lighter loads for more quality reps. However sets of 1-3 reps can work as well  

Appreciate it Ivan! When you speak, I listen 😁

I'll keep weights lighter for a bit, I don't need to rush anything.

When doing the wrist curls, do you go for full ROM or are you just trying to get any amount of flexion you can with as heavy weight as possible? 

Edited December 28, 2024 by EmilBB

[Vinnie]

10 hours ago, Ivan Cuk said:

also include wrist curls 6-12 reps 3-4 sets as it will help immensely with the Saxon

Ivan - do you mean wrist curls WITH the Saxon bar, or a regular bar?

[climber511]

My Euro and/or Saxon training is probably way different than most.  I need to write something up but I have the family in for the holidays.  I'll try to put something together here soon.

[Ivan Cuk]

5 hours ago, Vinnie said:

Ivan - do you mean wrist curls WITH the Saxon bar, or a regular bar?

With the Saxon yes

[Ivan Cuk]

7 hours ago, EmilBB said:

Appreciate it Ivan! When you speak, I listen 😁

I'll keep weights lighter for a bit, I don't need to rush anything.

When doing the wrist curls, do you go for full ROM or are you just trying to get any amount of flexion you can with as heavy weight as possible? 

The rom is dependent on how heavy you go of course, I recommend doing full rom with lighter weight at first. As you increase the weight over time its acceptable for the rom to shorten, as long as you're working in greater degree of motion than is done in the Saxon deadlift. 

[EmilBB]

On 12/28/2024 at 3:49 PM, climber511 said:

My Euro and/or Saxon training is probably way different than most.  I need to write something up but I have the family in for the holidays.  I'll try to put something together here soon.

First off, I hope you had a great time with family!

I just wanted to see if you have the time now to share your methods, because I've seen posts on here about you coaching people on euro and they end up getting huge PR's.
So obviously I'm very curious about your training methods and technique for 2-hand pinching.

[climber511]

If you go to The Grip Well here on the GB - there is some stuff I wrote up there.