Question about wrist training via music

[Guest JohnDrake]

Hey there, once again!

A friend of mine is playing drums and has some really strong wrists and forearms without any training  aimed specifically for wrists and i was just curious what do you think about this.

 

Of course (you may say) that any movement of the arms, either this involves wrists, forearms or even fingers, has some benefits.

 

My friend is playing drums for some years and he is quite good so i take him as an example because he invests at least 4 hours daily to drums.  Playing drums is all about the wrists, just look at the movements of this guy, his wrists must be burning!

 

But i have another friend who is playing an oriental drum-alike instrument called darbuka.

 

Here are 3 videos of some really talented darbuka players to demonstrate the average speed of this musical instrument for a better understanding:

 

 

 

(the last one is my personal favourite btw)

Of course, guitar players have some really strong fingers and also pianists too.

 

But when i look at these incredibly fast wrist movements when i see these darbuka players i can't imagine how would it be like if these musicians also added some exclusive wrist/grip training to their daily routines! Imagine both the speed and flexibility of playing this oriental music in such a fast BPM (Beats Per Minute) rate  but also some strength. The result would been outstanding! 

 

I wish i could measure their body stats while they were playing, like that test (i forget it's name sorry, i will try to describe it the best way i can) where you perform an activity and they measure your muscle activity, how much calories you burn, how much energy you transfer along your movements, etc.

 

So basically, all of this was a prologue just as a reference to my question: Do you believe that playing certain musical instruments that involve lot of finger/wrist/forearms movement (like drums, darbuka,congas, bongos, piano, guitar, etc.) can be considered an equal wrist training as the exclusive wrist training at the gyms?

 

(once again, i'm sorry for my terrible English, as i mentioned in my previous post, English is not my native language and i'm self-taught   )

[Blacksmith513]

No. go to gym to get strong, play an instrument because it’s fun
 

I’ve been playing guitar for close to 20 years. It definitely builds SOME tendon strength. 

learning an instrument is great and very rewarding but nothing about it equals what we do in the gym.

 I am curious though if my right hand is stronger on the coin lift from years of holding a guitar pick.

 

But a lot of time I just use my fingers anyways.

[Guest JohnDrake]

5 minutes ago, Blacksmith513 said:

learning an instrument is great and very rewarding but nothing about it equals what we do in the gym.

 

Of course, i don't compare these two but my main argument is based on the logic of "someone who plays a musical instrument in a professional level (like the musicians i referred above) spends at least 5-6 hours every single day to master his/her instrument while people who visit the gym not always do it in a regular base and of course they only go for 1 to 3 hours" so doesn't spending more time on an activity/hobby/job that requires fast wrist movements builds up more intense endurance?

 

Thanks for replying, i highly appreciate it!

Edited October 17 by JohnDrake

[Slipshod]

It's the same with anything, you either adapt or don't succeed. It's why you will find many older labourers with wrists and hands like granite. If you don't get that strength then you won't have longevity or the pinnacle of success.

F1 drivers have to have insanely strong necks to deal with the lateral g forces, if they didn't then they wouldn't be able to race for 2 hours. If you can't do it then you never get into F1, but all the people who get in have gone through years of developing the strength via junior formulas etc.

That said, progressive overload in a direct training program will always trump gradual strength improvements from training via years and years of doing a craft. Conversely you wouldn't go to the gym to get better at knitting. Horses for courses

[Guest JohnDrake]

23 minutes ago, Slipshod said:

F1 drivers have to have insanely strong necks to deal with the lateral g forces, if they didn't then they wouldn't be able to race for 2 hours. If you can't do it then you never get into F1, but all the people who get in have gone through years of developing the strength via junior formulas etc.

I just remember of a video (don't know it's title though) where F1 drivers competed in some neck challenges vs martial artists and NFL football (rugby)  players.

 

F1 drivers easily won every challenge and this was quite strange because most martial artists (especially wrestlers) have MASSIVE necks!

One of the martial artists who competed said that he did Mike Tyson's extreme hardcore neck workout

 

(this)

 

for years and F1 driver easily overcome him.

 

That was beyond increndible! If i find it i will post it in here!

[Climber028]

Our muscles and nervous system exist on a spectrum, you can prioritize strength or you can prioritize extremely delicate fine motor control. At the high levels, they cannot be done at the same time. Like, a neurosurgeon will never have elite grip strength, and Jedd Johnson is never going to become a virtuouso pianist. Definitely better compared to a typical sedentary person but not really ideal for real strength 

[Fist of Fury]

1 hour ago, JohnDrake said:

 Do you believe that playing certain musical instruments that involve lot of finger/wrist/forearms movement (like drums, darbuka,congas, bongos, piano, guitar, etc.) can be considered an equal wrist training as the exclusive wrist training at the gyms?

No.

[Blacksmith513]

54 minutes ago, JohnDrake said:

Of course, i don't compare these two but my main argument is based on the logic of "someone who plays a musical instrument in a professional level (like the musicians i referred above) spends at least 5-6 hours every single day to master his/her instrument while people who visit the gym not always do it in a regular base and of course they only go for 1 to 3 hours" so doesn't spending more time on an activity/hobby/job that requires fast wrist movements builds up more intense endurance?

 

Thanks for replying, i highly appreciate it!

Yes it does specifically for that activity. But no professional musician is ever going to close a 3 or pick up a blob unless they train for it.

 

But why would they ever bother trying pick up the inch or

close a 3 when you could be John Mayer and pick up Jessica Simpson or Jennifer Anniston, Katy Perry or Jennifer Love Hewitt 

[Guest JohnDrake]

11 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

At the high levels, they cannot be done at the same time. Like, a neurosurgeon will never have elite grip strength, and Jedd Johnson is never going to become a virtuouso pianist.

Great example! It makes sense, thanks!

[Guest JohnDrake]

7 minutes ago, Blacksmith513 said:

But why would they ever bother trying pick up the inch or

close a 3 when you could be John Mayer and pick up Jessica Simpson or Jennifer Anniston, Katy Perry or Jennifer Love Hewitt 

Lol good one!!

[Luke Blackwell]

1 hour ago, Blacksmith513 said:

No. go to gym to get strong, play an instrument because it’s fun
 

I’ve been playing guitar for close to 20 years. It definitely builds SOME tendon strength. 

learning an instrument is great and very rewarding but nothing about it equals what we do in the gym.

 I am curious though if my right hand is stronger on the coin lift from years of holding a guitar pick.

 

But a lot of time I just use my fingers anyways.

Nice👌. I played violin for a while. You can definitely feel it in the wrist

[dubyagrip]

I think playing extreme forms of metal that have required insanely fast, precise tremolo picking for 20 years has contributed to my thumb power.

Seriously.

[Blacksmith513]

22 minutes ago, JohnDrake said:

Great example! It makes sense, thanks!

Yes.
 

in all seriousness When training gets heavy it definitely affects my guitar playing. But the way I see it my guitar playing is a reflection of my personality and life style and my playing is a little  rough around the edges anyways vs being a virtuoso.  Mike Campbell from the Heartbreakers, that’s about as fast as I ever play.

It makes for great active recovery though. I’d give up grip before guitar if I had to but luckily there is enough room in my life for the two. 

5 minutes ago, Luke Blackwell said:

Nice👌. I played violin for a while. You can definitely feel it in the wrist

I wish I knew how to play the violin. It’s a beautiful sounding instrument. I’ve got a cousin In the Mormon Tabernacle who plays the Viola, she’s legit. Pretty sure she’s a powerlifter too actually 

[Guest JohnDrake]

Just now, dubyagrip said:

I think playing extreme forms of metal that have required insanely fast, precise tremolo picking for 20 years has contributed to my thumb power.

Seriously.

Exactly my point, one of the main reasons why i deliberately mention drums and darbuka: speed.

 

Playing metal in a guitar makes your wrists and fingers really burn like hell!

[Blacksmith513]

3 minutes ago, dubyagrip said:

I think playing extreme forms of metal that have required insanely fast, precise tremolo picking for 20 years has contributed to my thumb power.

Seriously.

Do you find your key pinch to be stronger from holding picks in your right hand?

[Guest JohnDrake]

1 minute ago, Blacksmith513 said:

. I’d give up grip before guitar

Is it because dexterity in playing guitar at high speed makes it difficult to combine with a grip workout?

 

I would love to test your wrist muscles before and after playing guitar with that muscle test i mention above, just for a research.

 

 

[dubyagrip]

Just now, Blacksmith513 said:

Do you find your key pinch to be stronger from holding picks in your right hand?

I can't prove it, but I believe my guitar playing built the foundation I started on when beginning gripsport, which contributed to my rapid gains.

[Guest JohnDrake]

Just now, dubyagrip said:

I can't prove it, but I believe my guitar playing built the foundation I started on when beginning gripsport, which contributed to my rapid gains.

So after all, playing musical instruments that require lot of wrist movements is helping with building up overall strength.

 

I mean, holding a guitar 1-2 kg for 3+ hours is a good isotonic workout on itself.

 

You also build up muscle memory in your fingers so even if that doesn't exclusively makes your grip stronger, you get less tired when working out, just like rock climbers who possess enormous finger strength even if they don't necessarily train their wrists.

 

Both arm wrestlers and climbers have great wrist strength but each sport aims at a very specific movement so i guess combining those two would give you John Brzenk's kind of wrists and forearms.

 

[Blacksmith513]

1 minute ago, dubyagrip said:

I can't prove it, but I believe my guitar playing built the foundation I started on when beginning gripsport, which contributed to my rapid gains.

I think you’ve proved it and keep proving over and over and again.

It definitely  has provided a foundation for myself just like construction has. I can handle a fair amount of volume but the strength comes from the gym.  
 

 

Stevie Ray Vaughan probably had a mean grip with the steel cables he used for strings 

3 minutes ago, JohnDrake said:

Is it because dexterity in playing guitar at high speed makes it difficult to combine with a grip workout?

 

I would love to test your wrist muscles before and after playing guitar with that muscle test i mention above, just for a research.

 

 

I’m just not a speed guy.  If I listen to anything heavy it’s early Black Sabbath or Electric Wizard which is is about as slow and heavy as they come. 
 

If I was to sit down and actually learn a style that requires a lot of technique it would be hybrid picking like Chet Atkins. That dude could make his guitar sound like 3 guitar players.

 

 

[DoctorOfCrush]

1 minute ago, JohnDrake said:

I mean, holding a guitar 1-2 kg for 3+ hours is a good isotonic workout on itself.

 

You also build up muscle memory in your fingers so even if that doesn't exclusively makes your grip stronger, you get less tired when working out, just like rock climbers who possess enormous finger strength even if they don't necessarily train their wrists.

I would argue that holding a 6-10lb guitar via a strap on your shoulder is vastly different that supporting and pulling up your body weight while rock climbing. 

[Guest JohnDrake]

1 minute ago, Blacksmith513 said:

It definitely  has provided a foundation for myself just like construction has.

 

Wow! Construction, playing guitar... sounds like you been training all your life for gripsport without even knowing it!

 

As i wrote in my other post, my grandparents used to be construction workers and factory workers as well. They didn't visit any gym but they had really strong grips, i mean, just imagine someone who both works as a construction worker AND goes to the gym!!

[DoctorOfCrush]

9 minutes ago, dubyagrip said:

I can't prove it, but I believe my guitar playing built the foundation I started on when beginning gripsport, which contributed to my rapid gains.

Just as a counterpoint, I had played guitar for ~9-10 years before getting into grip, and it took me ages to even close a #1 😂

[dubyagrip]

Yeah, I think the only contribution guitar playing had on my strength is my thumb power.  I don't think holding one for hours does much.

My thumb and index finger are capable of incredible picking speeds that I can maintain for minutes at a time.  I'm probably the only death metal musician in grip, so it stands to reason why my key pinch is so deadly. 🤘

[Guest JohnDrake]

2 minutes ago, DoctorOfCrush said:

I would argue that holding a 6-10lb guitar via a strap on your shoulder is vastly different that supporting and pulling up your body weight while rock climbing. 

Of course, i just say that this is a bonus. For example someone who plays metal on a guitar AND trains his grip surely has better overall grip strength than someone who only does 1 of the 2.

[dubyagrip]

2 minutes ago, DoctorOfCrush said:

Just as a counterpoint, I had played guitar for ~9-10 years before getting into grip, and it took me ages to even close a #1 😂

Oh it wouldn't do a thing for grippers.  I'm referring to my thumb/keypinch.