CoC 3.5 at 185+ (or even 180+) - a rare occurrence these days?

[Alex K]

So it all started back when I bought my 3.5, and it rated at 174 out of the box (now it’s 173 after plenty of work with it). And I thought to myself “oh wow, got lucky there with a light 3.5!”  Since I was pretty new at grip, I wasn’t aware of the amazing services by Cannon PowerWorks and the stats, and just knew that 3.5s typically rate in at 180ish, and some get awfully close to or even over 190 (like the cert gripper of David Shamey for example). 
 

I’ve recently started a project of creating an awesome gripper resistance progression. All of the grippers are carefully rated and the numbers are converted precisely according to Cannon PowerWorks expected ratings. (Going to post about it and the process of adjusting gripper ratings too!) Some of them were actually rated by Cannon by the way! (How I got the conversion from my system to CPW ) And what I seem to notice is that the slot for 188, which could be filled with a though 3.5, feels like it’s barely fillable with current 3.5s. Following Cannon’s pre-rated section, most 3.5s rate in at 168-176, don’t think I’ve seen one go above that in the last months. 
 

So my question is: have 3.5s changed in some way, that the average dropped to around 173 and have they gotten more consistent there, or do you guys still get new 3.5s that rate 180+?

[stranger]

I've been paying attention to @Cannon's ratings on 3's and 3.5's and it seems like over the past few years they have gotten easier. That's just what it seems like to me at least. Maybe something with how they are making them or the materials. 

 

this is just my opinion though. 

[Ivan Pupchenko]

2 hours ago, Alexander Koss said:

 

Your friend Murashkin, who sent you greetings in the same video, in which he called Cuk mother f-r. and fraudster-impostor, in a veiled form expressed the same opinion as about Cuk about Cannon's calibration. What can you say? Is Cannon's calibration trustworthy? Is it stable? Faithful? 

[Jermiah Merciconah]

Speaking of Ivan Cuk, He's got a pretty rare 189 RGC 3.5 from somewhere over in europe, Suuuuper rare find

[Alex K]

12 hours ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

Your friend Murashkin, who sent you greetings in the same video, in which he called Cuk mother f-r. and fraudster-impostor, in a veiled form expressed the same opinion as about Cuk about Cannon's calibration. What can you say? Is Cannon's calibration trustworthy? Is it stable? Faithful? 

Now I honestly don’t know why I get the feeling that you are upset with me (and I don‘t want that to be the case, I have respect for you and your achievements in this sport), so let me try to answer your questions, maybe it could clear things out  :

First of all, the fact that he mentions my name there and the whole conflict story are completely unrelated. I never asked to be part of any internet debates or fights. Back in like spring when I was just getting into the sport I got in contact with Vadim cause I wanted to try his grippers. Later we got into talking about different measurement systems, and I thought I could make a vid explaining why the numbers are different, and what’s good about his way to sort of help him out, nothing ridiculous. I believe such a film could be done with RGC as well. 

If you saw my post here, I am planning to have my whole gripper collection converted into Cannon PowerWorks numbers. I do have all my numbers in CPW, and have placed many orders to perfect my conversion into Cannon’s system. This doesn’t mean that Vadim’s way is bad, it’s just that I prefer Cannon’s system and have mad respect for him and his work. The system is also much more popular. 

So, to put it simple, I would say that @Cannon is 100% trustworthy. Those numbers are used everywhere and I am happy to use them too. Again, zero disrespect to Vadim and his system, it has its benefits too!

Regarding stability, it has nothing to do with measurement systems, really. It all depends on the gripper and the spring relaxation. But I am sure that any gripper that comes from Cannon has the correct rating tag on it for that particular point in time, no matter what happens to the gripper afterwards.

I do not want to make enemies here or anywhere in the grip world. I respect everyone around here, and so should everyone else.

And about the situation with @Ivan Cuk, although I strongly disagree with the whole fake claims and stuff said in the video (I do believe Ivan is as strong as “strong” gets), I would love to also find out what happened between Ivan and the guys from CXP with this “gripper unboxing scandal”. All we hear now are accusations and rumours ...

I hope I could clear the situation a little bit  I would appreciate to hear your further opinion on this too. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Alexander Koss

[Alex K]

5 hours ago, Jermiah Merciconah said:

Speaking of Ivan Cuk, He's got a pretty rare 189 RGC 3.5 from somewhere over in europe, Suuuuper rare find

Yeah, I saw that too. That seems to be an incredibly rare find these days...

[Vinnie]

Mere mortals like me have welcomed the recent spate of light 3.5s ... I got one rated at 165, and either barely or almost closed it, which I would not have been able to do with a 175-ish one.  That doesn't mean there is no place for the harder ones, but I do appreciate the variety because I think the existence of grippers at almost every rating is better for the sport than if there were only increments that one had to bridge.

[Alex K]

4 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

Mere mortals like me have welcomed the recent spate of light 3.5s ... I got one rated at 165, and either barely or almost closed it, which I would not have been able to do with a 175-ish one.  That doesn't mean there is no place for the harder ones, but I do appreciate the variety because I think the existence of grippers at almost every rating is better for the sport than if there were only increments that one had to bridge.

Yeah, totally agreed! I’m also having fun squeezing my 173 3.5, which I think I’ll close sometime soon. If my only jump was to 185, it would have been pretty damn hard

My goal would be to have an “old style tough” 3.5 at 188 along with mine to complete the epic set

[Vinnie]

1 hour ago, Alexander Koss said:

I’m also having fun squeezing my 173 3.5, which I think I’ll close sometime soon

Wow!  Then you might want to move along on the MM ladder; if you are close to closing 173, then you can already do MM1 and 2, and even 3 might not be much harder than 173 (although I hear it is the biggest single jump in the ladder, so I am not thinking about it yet).

[Ivan Cuk]

4 hours ago, Alexander Koss said:

 

And about the situation with @Ivan Cuk, although I strongly disagree with the whole fake claims and stuff said in the video (I do believe Ivan is as strong as “strong” gets), I would love to also find out what happened between Ivan and the guys from CXP with this “gripper unboxing scandal”. All we hear now are accusations and rumours ...

I hope I could clear the situation a little bit  I would appreciate to hear your further opinion on this too. 

They sent me two grippers to tns for max reps. I was on vacation in Greece and Serbia, I was training to close 4. I didn't do it on "their" time so they cut ties with me and I moved on ;D, 2 months later he says I ignored them for 3 months lol

[Ivan Pupchenko]

5 hours ago, Alexander Koss said:

 

Murashkin is known in narrow circles of our society for having gathered around himself a sect of characters who do not consider it shameful to lick his ass for or without reason. In addition, he considers it normal to set his minions against other people who disagree with him. Gives them tasks in private messages - write this about that, do that ... I was wondering if you are his same mindless slave who does not have your own opinion and freedom of action. From your answer, we can conclude that I was mistaken) Sorry if these suspicions hurt you) It's just that if Murashkin had conveyed his greetings to me, I would have thought that I had gotten into shit, and for a week been walking with a "brown dog hello" stuck to my boot. In general, his good attitude does not bode nothing well)))) At least, non-sectarian people may think badly about you. 

Regarding the calibration systems - I agree about Cannon and the RGC in general. And I do not agree about Murashkin's "version". I don't even want to call it a "system". Because this word implies the presence of a logical basis based on the specifics of sports and the possibility of systematizing results and standardizing of process. Which are not possible for a number of reasons that are not clear only to such a creature as far from gripsport as the oracle-Murashkin. In general - firstly, I am unhappy to talk about him, and there is too much honor for him in the discussion on this forum, and secondly, all this has already been discussed more than once. People with basic technical knowledge and sports experience already understand everything, but  still can't prove anything to his biorobots-dummies... 

And on the situation with Cuk, I'll explain a little to you. The sect has such a model of behavior based on the belief in their exclusivity and the exclusive right to judge and evaluate others. They used to write to all more or less strong people - either come to us and close OUR grippers, or you are a swindler. And now, when they are too often sent out to ride on "hairy motorcycle", they have started sending out their grippers - press or you are a scammer. + advertising with the world's best grippers with the world's best calibration. Ivan, due to his youth and lack of experience of dealing with such abominations, agreed to this performance. Fortunately, for unimportant reasons, he refused to comply with their demands. Gave grippers - THANKS. But he should not prove anything to anyone and make advertising to such vile people. Anything he wants to prove to himself or to someone - he will give at competitions or certifications. And to follow the lead of the sectarians - to show disrespect for yourself and your sport! 

[Ivan Cuk]

17 minutes ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

They used to write to all more or less strong people - either come to us and close OUR grippers, or you are a swindler. And now, when they are too often sent out to ride on "hairy motorcycle", they have started sending out their grippers - press or you are a scammer. + advertising with the world's best grippers with the world's best calibration. 

Didn't they try same thing with Artem and Igor?

[Cannon]

I have no idea about what’s being discussed here. I’ll go ahead and stay out of that.   
 

———————————-

Regarding ratings, if it matters, one thing I have said many times and will reiterate is there is no right or wrong way to do a rating as long as your results are consistent within your own measurements. The only question is how the numbers compare to other ratings, which doesn’t necessarily matter if the same person rated all the grippers. You would still know the progression and where there are gaps to fill. Ratings are just one tool and not as important as plain old hard work to progress. 

Regarding the 3.5, it’s an all-star in the line-up. It thankfully covers a lot of territory. 185+ has always been rare. CPW has only had 16 ever out of 364. That includes 5 at 185. The last one we sold over 185 was on Halloween of 2015. 6 years ago.  

The last 150 rated 3.5s we have sold average 170 and the high is 179. 

The last 50 rated 3.5s also average 170 but the high is 176. 

The first 150 rated 3.5s we sold averaged 180. 

That’s just historical data which has no bearing on the next 3.5 or the one after that. You have to rate a gripper to know what it rates. 

[Alex K]

1 hour ago, Cannon said:

I have no idea about what’s being discussed here. I’ll go ahead and stay out of that.   
 

———————————-

Regarding ratings, if it matters, one thing I have said many times and will reiterate is there is no right or wrong way to do a rating as long as your results are consistent within your own measurements. The only question is how the numbers compare to other ratings, which doesn’t necessarily matter if the same person rated all the grippers. You would still know the progression and where there are gaps to fill. Ratings are just one tool and not as important as plain old hard work to progress. 

Regarding the 3.5, it’s an all-star in the line-up. It thankfully covers a lot of territory. 185+ has always been rare. CPW has only had 16 ever out of 364. That includes 5 at 185. The last one we sold over 185 was on Halloween of 2015. 6 years ago.  

The last 150 rated 3.5s we have sold average 170 and the high is 179. 

The last 50 rated 3.5s also average 170 but the high is 176. 

The first 150 rated 3.5s we sold averaged 180. 

That’s just historical data which has no bearing on the next 3.5 or the one after that. You have to rate a gripper to know what it rates. 

Thank you so much for the detailed informations! I now feel like it makes much more sense to wait for a lighter SG Tungsten to appear someday at that rating.  
At this rate my whole gripper collection will consist of Standard grippers soon 

4 hours ago, Vinnie said:

Wow!  Then you might want to move along on the MM ladder; if you are close to closing 173, then you can already do MM1 and 2, and even 3 might not be much harder than 173 (although I hear it is the biggest single jump in the ladder, so I am not thinking about it yet).

Thanks man! I really am starting to think of entering the MM1 queue sometime this fall, especially having now closed my 168 GHP8. 
 

 

[Vinnie]

2 minutes ago, Alexander Koss said:

Thanks man! I really am starting to think of entering the MM1 queue sometime this fall, especially having now closed my 168 GHP8. 

Yeah, do it.  The MM grippers are not rated, but the people who have closed them usually can estimate their ratings, and from my experience with 1 and 2 I would agree with the estimates I heard before closing them that MM1 is low 150s (as compared to Cannon's ratings) and MM2 is low 160s.  So MM1 should be very easy for you and MM2 may be on the hard side of easy, but no question that you'd get it.

[Jermiah Merciconah]

+1 on the MM1 queue, After i cert on the 3 after christmas i'm gonna queue up for the MM1, I wanna do it same way Ivan did it, With a credit card from a wide set

[Alex K]

1 minute ago, Jermiah Merciconah said:

+1 on the MM1 queue, After i cert on the 3 after christmas i'm gonna queue up for the MM1, I wanna do it same way Ivan did it, With a credit card from a wide set

Excited about that! The whole “workout reports” gang achieving some nice certs sure does put a smile on my face

And @Ivan Cuk, thanks for sharing your side of the story earlier, it really all makes sense now... and... if someday the 189 rated 3.5 gets too light for your warm ups let me know! 

[Ivan Pupchenko]

5 hours ago, Ivan Cuk said:

Didn't they try same thing with Artem and Igor?

I don't remember the details of Igor's communication with him, but Murashkin in one of his videos in 2014 mentioned "a fraudster from Ukraine who is not able to come and confirm his results to authoritative people"))) I had a more detailed communication with him. In which a person who did not have any competitive results (as well as non-competitive ones) accused me of the fact that my results did not mean anything, and the armlifting competitions in which I participated were fraudulent and meaningless ... And in a year or two Murashkin and his adherents himself appeared at the World Armlifting Championship, which he had previously called fake ... After Igor's and Artem's certification, he posted a post in which he said that "swindlers from Ukraine are pressing  heated gripper, with a load of no more than CoC-2.5" ... Moreover, when David Shamey was certified, Ivan Tikhonov or Vano in the Grippermania group mentioned that this was the same gripper, but Murashkin congratulated David and wrote that “finally our Russian athlete showed Ukrainian scammers how to close grippers” .. Probably because David lives closer and may well come and break the face of this fat scoundrel .. 

[Ivan Pupchenko]

2 hours ago, Cannon said:

I have no idea about what’s being discussed here. I’ll go ahead and stay out of that.   
 

———————————-

It's just about that the person who called Ivan a fraud, in the same video, said that he repeatedly asked you to film the calibration process, but for fictitious reasons you refused to do it. He further said that if this process were filmed, then all RGC would fall, like any fakes ... In general, you did not lose anything from the fact that you do not know about this... 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Ivan Pupchenko

[insane.warrior]

Everything said by @Ivan Pupchenko in this thread about Murashkin is an absolute truth.

Confirmed multiple times by acting people.

Edited October 3, 2021 by insane.warrior

[Ivan Pupchenko]

1 hour ago, insane.warrior said:

Everything said by @Ivan Pupchenko in this thread about Murashkin is a absolute truth.

Confirmed multiple times by acting people.

I filed a claim about his video on YouTube. I regularly receive warnings about channel closure due to music playing in my gym. Let's see how YouTube handles this .... 

[Ivan Cuk]

23 hours ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

I don't remember the details of Igor's communication with him, but Murashkin in one of his videos in 2014 mentioned "a fraudster from Ukraine who is not able to come and confirm his results to authoritative people"))) I had a more detailed communication with him. In which a person who did not have any competitive results (as well as non-competitive ones) accused me of the fact that my results did not mean anything, and the armlifting competitions in which I participated were fraudulent and meaningless ... And in a year or two Murashkin and his adherents himself appeared at the World Armlifting Championship, which he had previously called fake ... After Igor's and Artem's certification, he posted a post in which he said that "swindlers from Ukraine are pressing  heated gripper, with a load of no more than CoC-2.5" ... Moreover, when David Shamey was certified, Ivan Tikhonov or Vano in the Grippermania group mentioned that this was the same gripper, but Murashkin congratulated David and wrote that “finally our Russian athlete showed Ukrainian scammers how to close grippers” .. Probably because David lives closer and may well come and break the face of this fat scoundrel .. 

You don't mess with David))

[Fist of Fury]

I recently bought a #3 which turned out to be the hardest #3 I've ever come across. Even harder than some filed #3's I've had. It depends on where you buy them from. COC's might be easier on average these days but you might buy from a shop which has had them in stock for years, so it can be a batch from several years back. I'm pretty sure that was the case for me with the #3 I got. I'm pretty sure they don't sell a whole lot of grippers in that store. So they most likely had it in stock for a long while.

Or it could be the other way around, it could be a very, very new batch they just got and they could be harder than before. You never know until you rate the grippers. The only thing you can be sure of is that they will always vary in resistance.

One thing which is news tho, is that there are #3.5's (and GHP8's) under 170#, I've even seen a #3.5 at 158# (which stanger has). These low ratings did not exist a few years back (with perhaps one or two exceptions). It was extremely hard to find grippers in the 160's. The only option was tetting grippers but they went out of production. Then it became practically impossible to get grippers in this range until just recently with GHP8 (first) and now #3.5's.

[Cannon]

4 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Then it became practically impossible to get grippers in this range until just recently with GHP8 (first) and now #3.5's.

Cobalt 

[Hubgeezer]

On 10/3/2021 at 11:57 AM, Ivan Pupchenko said:

It's just about that the person who called Ivan a fraud, in the same video, said that he repeatedly asked you to film the calibration process, but for fictitious reasons you refused to do it. He further said that if this process were filmed, then all RGC would fall, like any fakes ... In general, you did not lose anything from the fact that you do not know about this... 

 

 

 

It’s hard to believe that I, as an English-only speaking American, could possibly have  gotten anything from watching this video, but I did.

I learned that being absolutely passionate about nutcracker style handgrippers is not limited to the Western World.