Bigger And Pfister Tie For 2nd!

[Tom of Iowa2]

The owner of our gyms husband just got off the phone with Phil pfister and josh Bigger.

They tied for second place at this years Iron Mind Rolling Thunder Nationals.Odd Haugen won the event.Don't know winning weight.Both Bigger and Pfister told Paul the handle was "slippery"...Josh said it just felt 'weird'...what ever the case all 10 or 12 competitors had the same dis advantage but poundages were very low.Also pfister apparently told Paul that the weights 'felt heavy'...doubted that the weights used were accurate...Again doesn't matter everyone had to use them but he thought weights were "way off"paul took notes so I'm pretty sure about all this although the conversation was on a cell phone,noisey.

Didn't get poundages ...the poundages..according to Josh were "crap"Also -according to Josh - his own lifting sucked.Pfister told Paul"josh looks like he could get 300 lbs.!!!" But Josh said he didn't know why he did so poorly(pundage wise)obviously those new handles ar tougher....or were different.

Also josh was the shortest and lightest guy competeing....or this is what i was told.

Josh had actually started training for this just a few weeks ago.i believe he did singles once a week for 4 weeks...the pic of the 264.5lbs WAS his first day back.He was VERY disappointed in his showing but will do better next time and will train for it more.

Edited August 10, 2003 by Tom of Iowa2

[Tom of Iowa2]

Iron Mind Report on Rolling Thunder Nationals

The poundages were 'low' but I was told that Brian Schoonveld also competed and I understand he had to 'bow out'at about 218#???OR actually couldn't get the 218#??...and Brian can full deadlift the INCH replica with both hands...so the handle was 'tough'.....Both Pfister and Haugen have OFFICIALLY pulled 255 and done more in practices...so it WAS despite the low poundages a tough competition.

This report on Brian was second hand info from another guy that called up..so i may be off on that poundage.

[Tom of Iowa2]

Ok,just talked to a friend of mine that was there.He's driving back to Iowa and i caught him on his cell phone.

He said another member of our gym Jay Yako- who got third-in the amateurs tonight- said the handle was just triple tough.Jay doesn't train grip...but has pulled some 'fair'numbers and has some darn big and strong hands and said the handle felt 'funny' and that when it rolled it had a "weird-uneven"- feel to it...."very slippery too"

Also he verified that along with Schoonveld not getting the opening weight of 218# that either did Wade or Karl Gillingham.Yako said everybodies Lifts were WAY down(including Yakos )....Don Pope...on of the top 5 strongmen in the USA couldn't budge 218 either?....Not making excuses of josh or Pfister or anybody but obviously something was 'off'.

Edited August 10, 2003 by Tom of Iowa2

[bencrush]

Tom, thanks for the report. I'd be very interested to see the entire list of poundages lifted, especially by the amateur men. I noticed it's not on the Iron Mind website. Anyone know where the complete listing is?

Ben Edwards

[rbrown]

Tom:

Thanks for the report. I don't know what they do at these "official" Rolling Thunder contests in St. Louis, but every year the poundages seem way low. I know that if Pfister is having trouble getting more than 226 something is strange. As I reported the other day, I recent got 263 on my rolling thunder, so Pfister and Bigger only getting 226 and Brian and Karl and especially Wade missing with 218 is beyond me; I have personally seen Brian do the Inch. I also know Wayne Eilerman, who won the ams is capable of more than a 193 pull. I can understand the handle may be new with a little oil on it, but it seems like some chalk would quickly fix that problem--it sounds like it must have been covered in WD-40 or something. I also have no idea why they couldn't get the weights precise when conducting an official contest. That would seem easy enough to get right.

I almost feel like emailing Randy Strossen and telling him I want to order a new rolling thunder just like the one they used in the St. Louis contest (slippery and everything) to see what the big difference is. You would think they would want to use an implement that would allow the pros to really show what they can do and not always have everyone like myself wondering what in the heck the problem was.

As for the odd roll, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either. When I do it, I don't even let it roll because I just pick it up with my hand straight over the handle from the get go. The roll is just designed to prevent someone from picking it up in their palm (at least unless they have unreal strength in their wrists).

Ryan

Edited August 8, 2003 by rbrown

[Bill Piche]

I think Wade will be able to shed some light on this when he gets back.

[Rick Walker]

Wade replied in a recent Inch topic about how his wrists are incredibly weak.

He stated that he pinches the Inch in order to pick it up and he really is not very good at the RT because his wrist is not able to stay bent.

"Rick and others - for what it's worth, I have very weak wrists which I just figured out this year. My Rolling Thunder numbers pale in comparison to what I can do with the Inch and I believe this is a wrist strength issue. I basically pinch grip the inch and RT. Magnus, Phil, Odd, Jan Bartl - the best RT guys I have seen in person - all have a good wrist cock when they lift the RT - I don't. When I get up in the RT I just don't have the thumb strength to pinch real big weights. I've also recently noticed that I have very poor wrist flexibility. I can't even begin to cock my wrist if I make a tight fist. Again I think this is from the majority of my strength coming from the thumb"

Rick Walker

[Big Steve]

One question comes to mind. How can there be a WR in this when the impliments (RT) can differ so much? Just a thought.

[rbrown]

Interesting about Wade's comments on wrist strength. I don't think I have that strong of a wrist and didn't really even think that I used them much on RT. However, I could be wrong; haven't really analyzed how I pick it up.

As for the implements differing, I'm not sure they do except to the extent that one that is brand new like the one's they take out for the official contests can aparrently be quite "slippery." Mine has been thrown around a lot on the gym floor, ect. causing the paint in the handle to be kind of rough and chipped. This probably leads to a better gripping surface. All of the handles are the same width, diameter, ect. to my knowledge. It is also not clear to me whether the competitors were using a lot of chalk in the St. Louis contest; this makes a big difference. It is probably along the lines of a gripper without a good gripping surface. If you tried a gripper like a #3 that was slick, it would be much, much more difficult.

[Tom of Iowa2]

Tom:

Thanks for the report. I don't know what they do at these "official" Rolling Thunder contests in St. Louis, but every year the poundages seem way low. I know that if Pfister is having trouble getting more than 226 something is strange. As I reported the other day, I recent got 263 on my rolling thunder, so Pfister and Bigger only getting 226 and Brian and Karl and especially Wade missing with 218 is beyond me; I have personally seen Brian do the Inch. I also know Wayne Eilerman, who won the ams is capable of more than a 193 pull. I can understand the handle may be new with a little oil on it, but it seems like some chalk would quickly fix that problem--it sounds like it must have been covered in WD-40 or something. I also have no idea why they couldn't get the weights precise when conducting an official contest. That would seem easy enough to get right.

I almost feel like emailing Randy Strossen and telling him I want to order a new rolling thunder just like the one they used in the St. Louis contest (slippery and everything) to see what the big difference is. You would think they would want to use an implement that would allow the pros to really show what they can do and not always have everyone like myself wondering what in the heck the problem was.

As for the odd roll, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either. When I do it, I don't even let it roll because I just pick it up with my hand straight over the handle from the get go. The roll is just designed to prevent someone from picking it up in their palm (at least unless they have unreal strength in their wrists).

Ryan

R.Brown.I don't know what happens in St.Louis either.Remember last year Johnny Perry won with only a 241 and second place was something like 231??or in the 220's also?

I've gone through the bosses my IM catalogues and (edited to save space) magazines.

Karl G.is pictured doing 240plus.We all know Wade can do a 255?Pfister has pulled 265#(255 officially)Schoonveld can easily handle the INCH...??Haugen has officially pulled what 254.5??(vegas? or was that Cali this year)Haugen handles the INCH easily(saw him on TV)and lifted the Blob first try too..These guys ARE all BEASTS! ALL of THEM!!There was something unusual with this Rolling Thunder??? I'll spill the beans as these next numbers are obviously irrelevant(since all these apparatus ARE different-so who cares right?) but Josh started back on RT about 4 or 5 weeks ago..ONLY because there was some money to be made 3 and 1/2 hours away.He figured with his gym lifts he's go down and pick up a quick $500(almost did)First day back...He did that reps set with 264.5.Same day pulled 275.He also was picking up the SOLID ,2 3/8"181 like it was a toy,chest high and if it wasn't such an awkward(dangerous)implement Paul said he could have easily cleaned it,He also (before this contest) pulled 225 to his knees and broke 230 off the floor with the Solid dumbell(MILLENIUM type poundage..but Mobster it's not the Millenium ,ok )

In the week before the contest with no warm up broke 290.5lbs off the floor...Holly said over 3 inches.He then dropped to 276 and did a hold for a few seconds...waited 5 minutes and did a full lift of 286#......He then did squats/legs and came back and broke 290.5 off the floor again.

SOOOOO...these ARE Josh's recent numbers-just some stats-and yet the couldn't follow ODD up to 236???Something definitely wrong..

Also Bender53,good point...if the apparatus all different then???Also..the RT at the gym was blown out with an air pig to keep dust out and the guys at the gym do NOT use chalk on it..ever.They blew out the dust to keep it revovling freely...

I'll be going down to St.Lousi to watch the nationals so I'll try to grab that RT if it can be found.

[Tom of Iowa2]

Yako called again-also said because none of the other 8 to 10 guys could make that opening lift(now he says he doesn't know if they missed 206!?or if they all missed 218!?)That Phil,Josh, Haugen didn't have much time between lifts....Yako pulled some crap lift of 170?176?#and got THIRD in the amateurs and although not a grip specialist this is awful for Yako..anyways he said his final lift felt like about 200#.....which is nothing for him either.( my point being that Yako though that the weights were off too...as did pfister and Josh..AND the handle was weird )

He said the handle did have a weird 'Roll'to it -he couldn't really explain it-he thought it was just him(he hadn't touched an RT in almost 6 months)slippery- and since we don't use chalk..Chalk DIDN'T help him...Josh and Yako don't have the hand size of Pfister and Wade or ODD or Karl so yeah! they do feel it in their wrist.They have such wrist and forearm strength that they do cock their wrists.paul says Josh cocks his wrist with 290!But they use a legal thumb over grip and both Josh and Yako DO have crushing power AND THUMB strength.

Oddly-as Wade said in a Post..Pfister with his huge Microwave oven sized hands..cocks his wrist also.Odd does too.

(I've being saying for months the secret is in the Wrist)

Edited August 8, 2003 by Tom of Iowa2

[Guest gripmaster316]

Wow!! Odd seems to be getting stronger with age. I am assuming these guys are using the new RT. I just have a little input. Most people I see have chalk on there hand. I find if I have chalk on my hand and I touch plastic it just makes my hand slip. Just my two cents.

Edited August 8, 2003 by gripmaster316

[Matt Van Weele]

Thats unreal that Odd keeps getting stronger. Must be some new vitamins.

[rbrown]

Wow!! Odd seems to be getting stronger with age. I am assuming these guys are using the new RT. I just have a little input. Most people I see have chalk on there hand. I find if I have chalk on my hand and I touch plastic it just makes my hand slip. Just my two cents.

Gripmaster:

Are you saying there is a "new" Rolling Thunder that is made of plastic?? Mine is made of metal.

[Matt Van Weele]

Yes the new ones are made of plastic I'm not sure how long they've made them like this but I think it's been a while.

[Rick Browne]

Mine is made of cheap thin wall metal tubing that is sleeved with PVC

tubing.

Scratch the paint off the outside sleeve and if it shows to be white,

then you have a PVC sleeve. Same stuff that is used for irrigation water

lines.

If IM has $5 in it for material, I`d be shocked!

[rbrown]

Mine is made of cheap thin wall metal tubing that is sleeved with PVC

tubing.

Scratch the paint off the outside sleeve and if it shows to be white,

then you have a PVC sleeve. Same stuff that is used for irrigation water

lines.

If IM has $5 in it for material, I`d be shocked!

In that case, I think I'll take good care of mine. It is solid metal and very good quality. This may have something to do with the difficulty level.

Tom of Iowa:

Do you know if the one that Josh is pulling those big numbers on is made of plastic?

[Tom of Iowa2]

Mine is made of cheap thin wall metal tubing that is sleeved with PVC

tubing.

Scratch the paint off the outside sleeve and if it shows to be white,

then you have a PVC sleeve. Same stuff  that is used for irrigation water

lines.

If IM has $5 in it for material, I`d be shocked!

There are two Rolling Thunders at the gym.

Both made like Z-cor described.

One was bought in 98 the other more recently ??(another member donated it).They are both the same plastic handle over metal.They both 'pull'the same.They have both been maintained by blowing out the dust.

I think the handle should just be a solid 2 3/8 handle for competitions.Thus no varying implements AND the poundages would go up ..which would make the contest more exciting(to the public)

It(solid 2 3/8 handle) could be called the 'INCH handle lift'.The Rolling Thunder would still be a good training device as the unique "roll'helps in training...but because the Roll(or something)is inconsistant...it may NOT be suited for competition?The INCH dumbell itself is not good for competion as it isn't adjustable and it is just so EZ for most of these guys.

As bender53 said about the IM Rolling Thunder :"How can there be a WR?etc.etc."

It has-because of IM catalogue and M I L 0 magazine become a well known test of strength.There are perhaps(varies from year to year?)Several opportunities to win decent prize money ..thanks to IM.I'm not kising butt-but IM puts some good prize money out there for this 'event'.This year there was money in Vegas,California and Canada and in St louis...I for got if Beauty and the Beast had money this year?i think they did?.One year there was(i believe)$1000 available at the Beauty and the Beast??

It IS a good idea and a fun test of grip and strength but perhaps the implement will NEVER be consistant...going to solid would be the way to go and all IM would have to do is put it in THEIR catalogue..'the INCH handle lift' ...and continue selling the RT for training?

It could only be consistant if it was will Roller Bearing or something..AND even that couldn't be 100% consistant.

A metal revolving sleeve?instead of the PVC sleeve would be better but even it would get gummed up....any mechanical apparatue will have variances.

Anybody got any other ideas?Thought on the contest apparatus?

I think(know) the poundages on a solid 2 3/8 would be well over 300lbs!very exciting and Joe Blow off the street or event a decent powerlifter is still gonna have a tough time with it...which makes it IMPRESSIVE!?

Edited August 8, 2003 by Tom of Iowa2

[OldGuy]

Tom, I am all for using an all steel non revolving handle. Too many problems with the plastic sleeved revolving variety. That is only a gimmick anyway. On top of that I am still waiting for someone to better my 370 lb lift using a 2 3/8'' non revolving thunder!

Handle shown here.

http://home.bellsouth.net/coDataImages/p/G...5240Aut0552.jpg

[Tom of Iowa2]

Well that 370# isn't going to get beat by me...thats for sure.Nice lift..take a good grip and a good back!

But i think the solid handle is the way to go and IM(who is putting up a couple of grand in prize money a year?)could come out of this slight contoversey nicely with the NEW 'INCH handle lift'.

Plus add a nice little new grip toy to their catlogue.

There has just gotta be a more accurate test -but at least he's putting money on the table and anyone strong enough can give it a go.

[mobsterone]

I can pull 300.1 (132kilos and change) on my 2.5 inch thick handle set up so it doesn't rotate - do I get a prize.

Re the RT: I had huge problems way back when I did the Pullums seminar with the new handle and only just pulled 100 kilos on it (about 230 total).

[Tom of Iowa2]

Tom of Iowa:

Do you know if the one that Josh is pulling those big numbers on is made of plastic?

R.Brown

Yes.plastic.I thought ALL Iron Mind Rt's were plastic?The one at the contest was plastic....

Anybody else have an IM Rolling Thunder made out of steel?

i know for sure both RT's that are available at the gym were purchased from IM?

Maybe yours is a different brand?

[OldGuy]

No prize for only 300 lbs on a non rotating handle. That is only a warmup weight!

[Rick Walker]

You can pull much more in my experience with a solid metal handle.

Dont know why...

All Ironmind RTs are plastic handle on metal.

Rick Walker

[Tom of Iowa2]

You can pull much more in my experience with a solid metal handle.

Dont know why...

All Ironmind RTs are plastic handle on metal.

Rick Walker

I thought they were all plastic too...

Yes the solid 2 3/8 handle is easier- but it would be consistant...but it also sounds like the weights need to be checked or weighed also at contests of this importance?However everybody there played with the same apparatus and the same 'overweight'?plates so THEY were all on an even playing field..but to compare with another contest??Seems like it can't be done?

Again i appreciate that Strossen/IM has prize money out there at these contests...and it was cool for him to let Josh lift with the Pros(josh should have pulled with the amateurs lefty and the pros righty after just 11 months of lifting he's technically an amateur-could have won more money?)But it just seems there is some inconsistancy with the apparatus..i new there was some...but NOT this much.i mean these guys were clearly anywhere fro 30 to 70lbs down from what they HAVE pulled

Even at the gym we know exactly how all the 45 pounders weigh..and the DO vary.And although both our RT's are different 'ages'they are pretty close in 'feel'...but NOT quite exact i guess......?