JoshW Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Not sure if it's been brought up before but has it been considered that something similar to the feat poll be used for MM certs? So the gripboard members get a say in the result of the cert. This came to mind as recently there has been members questioning the validity of the judges decision for certs. Just an idea but if it hasn't been brought up I'd love to know whether it is a good idea? If not please delete this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Raftopoulos Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) I think it's a good idea but one potential issue with that is that the standards for cert might become less consistent depending on who judges and how many members judge the attempt. Also, if someone doesn't like the individual for whatever reason it might influence their judgement in a negative way. The opposite can also happen if you are friends with that person. I think this might become more of an issue when the close or the set is questionable. But one could argue that can also happen with the current judges I suppose. What might also be a good idea is to post all videos passes/fails so the other members can at least give feedback to the judges to keep improving the process and/or give feedback to the person that failed it to help him improve. That helped me personally when I failed the MM0. Just sharing some thoughts. Edited July 5, 2015 by Evan Raftopoulos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Here is what I would suggest if the MM certs were like feat polls. 1: Have a list of respected members of the board that vote (chez, anwnate, Juha) 2: The judges have to be a member for more than a year 3: The judges remain neutral throughout the whole process (no siding with a friend, they have to call they way they see it, good or bad) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshW Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 Yes I was thinking something similar: 1. Must have been a member for over a year 2. Minimum of 500 posts possibly 3. Definitely well respected members 4. Possibly only gripboard contributers This will either reduce the chance for bias or increase it but I think it has the possibility of increasing the reliability Thanks John and Evan for your suggestions so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 In my opinion, the biggest consideration for a person becoming a judge for the mm certs, it just can't be just anyone here on the board; that's why I think it should be a respected member of the board. Something to also consider is if they have or haven't done a gripper certification. I think they should be at least a MM1 or higher before being approached for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony C. Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 It's not broken and I don't see a need to try to fix it. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshW Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 It's not broken and I don't see a need to try to fix it. Was in no way suggesting this as a better option I just wondered whether it has been brought up before or considered 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony C. Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 It's not broken and I don't see a need to try to fix it.Was in no way suggesting this as a better option I just wondered whether it has been brought up before or considered Gotcha brother. I know you meant well. I think that the "respected members" of the GB are already judges. The system they have in place right now is already pretty solid, they have failed a close of mine and they were right to do so. The video that was in question (really by only one person, as far as I can tell) looked fine to me. I would've passed it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshW Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 This is what I wanted, both for and against the idea so thank you brother for your input! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwwm Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 There is a whole list of grippers/set combinations that one can do for the gripboard feats. So if that's how you want your closes judged, then there's really nothing stopping you. A couple weeks ago. I made a list of feats that I want to do, and have started submitting them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Raftopoulos Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 just to clarify: I also think that the process is fine as it is, it seems pretty strict and fair to me. Perhaps Vano can make some suggestions since he expressed a concern with Jedd's MM3 here and he also qualifies as a judge based on what is mentioned in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshW Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 The process of recording the video is fine for sure. There is more than 20 people on the board who I would consider impartial objective judges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 There are a few other guys that I think could be judges because it is tough for us to get time to judge. As for making it so that any/all members can vote, I do not agree with that. The MM process has been in place for a good while and to make changes over one guy making a fuss is silly. The process is solid and the guys judging the certs are as stand-up as they come, their integrity should never be questioned. As for Jedd's video I would have passed it too. The MM3 has whipped almost as much ass as Chuck Norris because it's hard to judge due to the bevels on the handles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwwm Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 That brings up a good point. If the gripper handles do not close together at the right point, and that makes it hard to judge, maybe somebody can RGC it, readjust the handles so the touch better, and then RGC it again to make sure it is at the right difficulty level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshW Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 Not making a stab at anyone's integrity, I do not doubt any of the judges if this idea was to work heath, the judges would be trusted board members - there are a lot of these. Plus if there are more judges then it alleviates any stress that the few current judges may face with issues like time and how busy they are as you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Raftopoulos Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 The MM process has been in place for a good while and to make changes over one guy making a fuss is silly. I see what you are saying but I 'm gonna hazard a guess that it's more than one guy that had an issue with that based on what Vano mentioned about the vid dislikes. But yea he seemed to be the only one that talked about it. Nevertheless, I don't think that anyone's integrity has been questioned. Again imo the process is fine as it is but it's not a bad idea to talk about it, you've made a good suggestion of adding a few more judges so it's also easier on you guys. btw thank you to all the judges for your time and making the mm cert possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbe705 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 the biggest issue i see is that we would have to asterisks closes either before or after the change. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 The MM process has been in place for a good while and to make changes over one guy making a fuss is silly. I see what you are saying but I 'm gonna hazard a guess that it's more than one guy that had an issue with that based on what Vano mentioned about the vid dislikes. But yea he seemed to be the only one that talked about it. Nevertheless, I don't think that anyone's integrity has been questioned. Again imo the process is fine as it is but it's not a bad idea to talk about it, you've made a good suggestion of adding a few more judges so it's also easier on you guys. btw thank you to all the judges for your time and making the mm cert possible. This is a quote from Jedd's MM4 thread: "Level mm3 judge gave you, come show their strength at mm4, that no one was ashamed!" Another: On your picture you can see a gap between the handles, but the judges certainly know better ) I know he is going through a translator but, to me, that is saying the judges gave him whites, thus questioning their integrity. Again, changing the way it runs is silly. How many videos have been judged? I just don't see changing a system over 1 video. Judging is as hard as running the ladder, I've done both. I've passed videos and I've failed them, I've passed certs and I've failed them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ Livesey Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 When I judge a feat I take the time to watch the video over and over and over. A single video may take me up to 30mins to watch. I take the process very seriously. I'm not sure if these were open to the public everyone would take them as serious. Now I am not and MM judge, I am and have been the FBBC judge for years and before that I was one of the battlefield judges. I think the system of judging is good as it is. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Raftopoulos Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) To me it's not even a big deal if someone is half mm from closing the gripper or if the set is not completely parallel and gets certified. The capacity to do it is obviously there. I even wish the CoC cert rules were the same as before. I thought you guys were strict with Jedd the previous time because the set wasn't fully shown. So I don't think I'll ever be a good judge and I highly respect those who take the time and responsibility to do this. Jedd can close the mm3, I have no doubt on that, but I was hoping that Vano or others who disagree with the cert vid can also say what they want to say here instead of avoid talking about it and instead 'dislike' a mm cert youtube vid (not saying that Vano was part of that). But in Vano's case it seems difficult because things get lost in translation. Especially through google translator, that first quote made no sense to me. Edited July 6, 2015 by Evan Raftopoulos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Raftopoulos Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 another comment about the MM cert unrelated to the previous discussion: can people who have very strong crushing power (demonstrated through many videos or CoC 3.5 certified ) start at a higher level? I've noticed a few people that post here from time to time that can close very heavy grippers (Paul Savage and I think "Cancrusher" are two) but if they ever become interested in the mm cert it would be very time consuming for them to move up. Just wondering if exceptions can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hench Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 another comment about the MM cert unrelated to the previous discussion: can people who have very strong crushing power (demonstrated through many videos or CoC 3.5 certified ) start at a higher level? I've noticed a few people that post here from time to time that can close very heavy grippers (Paul Savage and I think "Cancrusher" are two) but if they ever become interested in the mm cert it would be very time consuming for them to move up. Just wondering if exceptions can be made. I don't think so. I think it is about paying your dues and moving up like everyone else with no special treatment. It would be like a black belt in jui jitsu going to karate and starting as a brown belt or something. Both similar but not the same. It would be disrespectful to the process imo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 another comment about the MM cert unrelated to the previous discussion: can people who have very strong crushing power (demonstrated through many videos or CoC 3.5 certified ) start at a higher level? I've noticed a few people that post here from time to time that can close very heavy grippers (Paul Savage and I think "Cancrusher" are two) but if they ever become interested in the mm cert it would be very time consuming for them to move up. Just wondering if exceptions can be made. I don't think so. I think it is about paying your dues and moving up like everyone else with no special treatment. It would be like a black belt in jui jitsu going to karate and starting as a brown belt or something. Both similar but not the same. It would be disrespectful to the process imo. This is spot on. You have to climb no matter where you may end up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 To me it's not even a big deal if someone is half mm from closing the gripper or if the set is not completely parallel and gets certified. The capacity to do it is obviously there. I even wish the CoC cert rules were the same as before. I thought you guys were strict with Jedd the previous time because the set wasn't fully shown. So I don't think I'll ever be a good judge and I highly respect those who take the time and responsibility to do this. Jedd can close the mm3, I have no doubt on that, but I was hoping that Vano or others who disagree with the cert vid can also say what they want to say here instead of avoid talking about it and instead 'dislike' a mm cert youtube vid (not saying that Vano was part of that). But in Vano's case it seems difficult because things get lost in translation. Especially through google translator, that first quote made no sense to me. I don't think anyone has a problem with discussing anything or anyone has to avoid anything. Throwing jabs that Jedd was given something by the judges he didn't get is not a discussion. You may be correct in that it's all lost in translation. The best course would be for a discussion to take place and not throw out jabs at people. The MM process was brought up and brought along by discussion so trust me that's not the problem. I see Vano is signed up for the MM7, hopefully he dents the handles on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshW Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 The aim of my question was a discussion on whether this idea has been brought up before and whether there is any merit to it. Personally I would have given jedd three white lights Thank you everyone for your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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