Evan Raftopoulos Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Just wondering, on average how strong in MM set close does one have to be in order to be able to close with CCS a CoC 3 of let’s say 150 pounds? My estimation is between 170-180 pounds but I could be wrong, any experts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Just wondering, on average how strong in MM set close does one have to be in order to be able to close with CCS a CoC 3 of let’s say 150 pounds? My estimation is between 170-180 pounds but I could be wrong, any experts? Well, everyone is going to be different. I'd say your guess is a bit high on the scale though. A 165lb MMS close should be plenty of horsepower to eke out a 150lb CCS close. Unless you're talking about freakishly small hobbit hands. My best MMS close (185lb #3.5) was about 10lbs higher than my best CCS (174lb #3.5) close. But my best CCS close was also the same as my best TNS close. These are both using standard spread grippers as the basis for comparison by the way. I actually MMS closed a custom 192lb super narrow Grand Elite that I RGC rated for an acquaintance back when I was at my strongest on grippers. I usually don't claim that as my best MMS close because it was so narrow that it made setting it so much easier. It felt more like a hoseclamped gripper. And the same went for abnormally narrow grippers. I TNS closed a 181lb custom narrow Super Elite. The spread was around 2 and 3/16" though. Not a standard spread by a long shot. I have never claimed this (181lb narrow SE) as my best TNS close either. Or not without an * beside it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubgeezer Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I pretty much agree with Ben, especially the "everyone is going to be different" opener. One of the lower spreads I know of is me, at around 6 or 7 pounds, and at the other end of the spectrum,some deep set Number 4 closers, at close to 40. I think it is how you train, what you are used to. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king crusher Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 My best ccs close is my 156 3 and my best mms is my 166 elite although I've got my mm3 172 down very close so if say my best mms is about 169 or so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geralt Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I am not a COC, though it is still a big goal for me. Grippers are very tricky to train and to stay consistent with strength. To do a CCS on a new, stiff out of the package IM#3, you will need a lot of crushing power. I am training grippers from 2009 up till now and it is only since recently that I begin to explore the ranges with #3 CCS work, after working hard for getting my MMS work up. Doing a lot a MMS work however has not made my hands stronger in the wider set work. It sound logical but it is easy to put a small sighted vision in training without knowing it yourself. What I am meaning is that you should explore all ranges of motion with grippers, from TNS up till MMS. Closing a #3 in training is different compared to doing it on a predetermined moment. You will need to CCS a #3 at will. I have tried it once and failed within a very slight margin. Learnful perhaps but not recomandable. You know when you are ready when you can CCS a #3 at will in training. People who CCS a #3 in training are strong, but they do it on a chosen moment when they feel strong or on a moment like I do for most of the time, when they don't expect their strength to peak. That is not when you are ready for the cert. Having a gripper with a certain rating is nice, but RGC's done by a lot of people vary and working with a seasoned gripper is different than closing a gripper for the first time out of the package. In my opinion you want to be able to blockset an Elite consistently, rgc above 165 to be safe, and better, be able to MMS a 3.5 or at least deep set it. CCS is for fine tuning your strength, not for working in the optimal range. So work up to a basic strength level, only then, focus on CCS, see what you still miss, and go back working grippers in the optimal range. And repeat. That is how I do it. Yes I am very slow perhaps compared to other guys around here, but this is what will get you that cert. I still think the #3 cert is a cool cert and something to be proud of. Just be stubborn and keep plowing away, gripper progress is everything but linear for the most of us, hence the small list of closers. Most guys you see certing are guys with determined and focused training and mostly with 10 years or so (grip)training under their belt. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Matney Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Raftopoulos Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 Those are very impressive numbers you guys. It’s very motivating to hear people share their experience/expertise. keep it coming! Also great advice Geralt. I’m new to grippers but I neglect CCS closes and I think it’s my ego, I need to let that go and focus on that as well.I can MMS around 130 rgc in my estimation (I can do my126 ghp easier now), so from what I understand I need to get under my belt about 35 more pounds to be safe with CCS #3 (I understand what you guys are saying about variability and actually practicing CCS). That might take me a year, two years, or 5 - 10 years. I have no idea. Everybody’s rate of improvement differs and I’m also only 165 pounds. What the general public might not understand is that there is a large difference between closing your pre rated #3 MMS during training (and some 3s are in the 130s) and closing an out of the package #3 for cert. When I started watching youtube vids of #3 closes 1-2 months ago I assumed that these people are certified CoC or they can do it easily. Unless you start training yourself you don’t know the difference. But don’t get me wrong, once I can close a #3 anyway I’m putting it up on youtube, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geralt Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 This is a good article. Good luck! https://gripperstrength.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/credit-card-set-–-a-recent-trend/ Well said. Thank you, appreciated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 There is a lot of great information posted in this thread. My best mms gripper close right now is 198 lb rated Grand Elite and my best ccs was around 154 lb rated #3. Here's my experience with ccs training. I first had to figure out where I was strong and weak at. At the time I was doing wide set closes (25mm or more), the ccs was nowhere in sight. I came up with a method to figure out the best course of action. I would attempt a tns then take the IM coc key and measure how far the handles were from the closed position, then work backwards. slowly widen the set after so long training this way. This method took time to figure out with regard to hand placement. What I've noticed is that if I want to ccs a #3, I have to place the gripper slightly back in my hand whereas for the MMS the gripper is slightly forward; you would never noticed the difference unless I clued you in on the placement at the given moment, it is a minor adjustment in accordance with the fact my pinkie finger has to be off the gripper to make the ccs happen or I will never be able to slide the card between the handles. I found working with a gripper that you could do dynamic closes for speed (not doing fast rep after rep but an explosive burst of energy to hear a loud click), I worked in a range that was slightly harder than any #3, an Elite or 3.5, while keeping tabs on my progress with the ccs attempt. The hardest part in regard to the #3 certification is never knowing what you may get. I've gone through it twice (it only made me angry knowing I was denied by that gripper), the first time I attempted it the gripper was crazy strong with a huge spread (nearly 3 1/2 inches), it felt like a 3.5. The second time I went for the certification I had been practicing with the above mentioned method but also playing with different types of sets, I had gotten to the point where I could close a brand new #3 straight out of the package. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I came up with a method to figure out the best course of action. I would attempt a tns then take the IM coc key and measure how far the handles were from the closed position, then work backwards. slowly widen the set after so long training this way. This method took time to figure out with regard to hand placement. Do you mean you used the same technique as in CCS repetitions but with only the deep part of the movement? Or did you use MMS/deep set technique with that width? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I came up with a method to figure out the best course of action. I would attempt a tns then take the IM coc key and measure how far the handles were from the closed position, then work backwards. slowly widen the set after so long training this way. This method took time to figure out with regard to hand placement. Do you mean you used the same technique as in CCS repetitions but with only the deep part of the movement? Or did you use MMS/deep set technique with that width? This is where I would gauge what I would have to work at This is how the sets would look like for reps while training for the ccs This is what it looks like while I'm doing mms 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 If anybody is interested in improving the ccs Jedd has just put out a new dvd on how to get better with it. I haven't seen it yet, I'M only mentioning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alawadhi Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 198LB GE?! Man that's impressive! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Raftopoulos Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 question: CoC 4 credit card set - has it ever been done officially? Is it even possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 question: CoC 4 credit card set - has it ever been done officially? Is it even possible? Officially it has not been done yet. Everyone on the #4 list made it before the rules were changed to where you have to use a credit card for the set. Before the changes, you could set the card down to an inch before making the attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Raftopoulos Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Thanks John. I think it's misleading to the general public. So basically none has ever certified in CoC 4 (with today's expectations). Edited May 13, 2015 by Evan Raftopoulos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Pizzo Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks John. I think it's misleading to the general public. So basically none has ever certified in CoC 4 (with today's expectations). Not exactly true...according to TEDS... He would say JK practically no-set closed it (insert video evidence)...but this thread will likely get locked at some point if I bring him up or any of his feats...so yeah...maybe I shouldn't even post this... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Matney Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Nathan Holle probably has the best shot at a legit #4 CCS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks John. I think it's misleading to the general public. So basically none has ever certified in CoC 4 (with today's expectations). Not exactly true...according to TEDS... He would say JK practically no-set closed it (insert video evidence)...but this thread will likely get locked at some point if I bring him up or any of his feats...so yeah...maybe I shouldn't even post this... I'm only going to say this, the thread will stay open only if nobody goes off topic with the mention of "He-who-shall-not-be-named". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Pizzo Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Nathan Holle probably has the best shot at a legit #4 CCS. Agreed! Though there has been some other guys in the ballpark like Ioan, and possibly Jonathan Vogt,...but it's pretty likely Nathan could CCS a #4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hench Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 We should be more concerned about who the next guy will be not about who may have been able to in their prime. It will be done with a credit card set by somebody. We may or may not know the person on these forums but it will be done. I think within the next couple years we will see a couple 3.5 certs go down so it may be a while for a 4 unless it is one of those unheard of guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Matney Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Nathan Holle probably has the best shot at a legit #4 CCS. Agreed! Though there has been some other guys in the ballpark like Ioan, and possibly Jonathan Vogt,...but it's pretty likely Nathan could CCS a #4 Yeah, Vogt was the man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshW Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Probably hazard a guess that chez and vano currently have a good chance Edited May 14, 2015 by JoshW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I believe that when Holle certed on the GHP9, Wade gave the impression there were other, wider, displays of strength that he did not have permission to post publicly. Ioan also took the #4 down to a gnat's ass miss with a CCS. It's certainly possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I believe that when Holle certed on the GHP9, Wade gave the impression there were other, wider, displays of strength that he did not have permission to post publicly. Ioan also took the #4 down to a gnat's ass miss with a CCS. It's certainly possible. Only a matter of time before it actually happens one day. In the mean time, we all have to play the waiting game when the day happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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