maidenfan Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I've been having a real difficult time with my overhead work, specifically jerks, in locking the weight out overhead. I've done it for years, even with simple overhead pressing, handstands, etc. When the weight gets heavier, the missed lifts come. In doing some research, its apparently quite a common problem for olympic lifters. I read Jim Schmitz's article on the subject and he suggested overhead lockouts and jerk balances as drills to correct the problem. Anybody else have a solution that worked for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopholes Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Go to the power rack. Set the bar on the pins so that it sits at about the top of your head. Press it from there. It's a heavy partial to lockout. If possible, you could try setting the bar to where it is only a few inches under lockout, and press it from there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) I've been having a real difficult time with my overhead work, specifically jerks, in locking the weight out overhead. I've done it for years, even with simple overhead pressing, handstands, etc. When the weight gets heavier, the missed lifts come. In doing some research, its apparently quite a common problem for olympic lifters. I read Jim Schmitz's article on the subject and he suggested overhead lockouts and jerk balances as drills to correct the problem. Anybody else have a solution that worked for them? Are you losing them out front like a balance issue or can you just not totally straighten and keep straightened the elbows? Two different problems. Edited February 9, 2013 by climber511 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidenfan Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 I've been having a real difficult time with my overhead work, specifically jerks, in locking the weight out overhead. I've done it for years, even with simple overhead pressing, handstands, etc. When the weight gets heavier, the missed lifts come. In doing some research, its apparently quite a common problem for olympic lifters. I read Jim Schmitz's article on the subject and he suggested overhead lockouts and jerk balances as drills to correct the problem. Anybody else have a solution that worked for them? Are you losing them out front like a balance issue or can you just not totally straighten and keep straightened the elbows? Two different problems. Straightening the elbows. I've always "muscled" stuff overhead and I want to fix it. Maybe its just a matter of focus and practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I've been having a real difficult time with my overhead work, specifically jerks, in locking the weight out overhead. I've done it for years, even with simple overhead pressing, handstands, etc. When the weight gets heavier, the missed lifts come. In doing some research, its apparently quite a common problem for olympic lifters. I read Jim Schmitz's article on the subject and he suggested overhead lockouts and jerk balances as drills to correct the problem. Anybody else have a solution that worked for them? Are you losing them out front like a balance issue or can you just not totally straighten and keep straightened the elbows? Two different problems. Straightening the elbows. I've always "muscled" stuff overhead and I want to fix it. Maybe its just a matter of focus and practice? Can you actually "lock" your elbows? Some people can't. If you can just work on "jerking" with moderate weights and zero press out. Don't allow any rebend in the arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidenfan Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 I've been having a real difficult time with my overhead work, specifically jerks, in locking the weight out overhead. I've done it for years, even with simple overhead pressing, handstands, etc. When the weight gets heavier, the missed lifts come. In doing some research, its apparently quite a common problem for olympic lifters. I read Jim Schmitz's article on the subject and he suggested overhead lockouts and jerk balances as drills to correct the problem. Anybody else have a solution that worked for them? Are you losing them out front like a balance issue or can you just not totally straighten and keep straightened the elbows? Two different problems. Straightening the elbows. I've always "muscled" stuff overhead and I want to fix it. Maybe its just a matter of focus and practice? Can you actually "lock" your elbows? Some people can't. If you can just work on "jerking" with moderate weights and zero press out. Don't allow any rebend in the arms. Lock - yes. Hyperextend (like I see on some lifters) - no. Makes sense man, thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickmeniru Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I have absolutely zero weightlifting experience, especially overhead, but I am a massive fan of handstand work. Pretty sure it would help with locking out, although I'm not sure that it would have a good helpfulness to time required ratio. If you do decide to give it a go, take a look at some of Coach Sommers advice. Won't link the site, because I can't remember if it's against the gripboard's rules to advertise, but a quick search will bring up some great links. Best of luck with sorting out your problem, whatever you decide to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidenfan Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) I have absolutely zero weightlifting experience, especially overhead, but I am a massive fan of handstand work. Pretty sure it would help with locking out, although I'm not sure that it would have a good helpfulness to time required ratio. If you do decide to give it a go, take a look at some of Coach Sommers advice. Won't link the site, because I can't remember if it's against the gripboard's rules to advertise, but a quick search will bring up some great links. Best of luck with sorting out your problem, whatever you decide to do! Thanks for the tip. I'm familiar w/Sommers work. I've always been a fan of gymnastic stuff and regularly practice handstands/walking, but at 250,its hard for me. I have the same problem while doing handstands - I have to force myself to lock my elbows. Maybe its the weight, but I have to fight to keep my elbows from unlocking and going back to that "muscle" hold vs. structure. I think you all get what I'm saying. With the olympic lifting, it does the same thing - I get a lot of "re-bending" in the elbows. When the weight gets heavy, or I get tired, I miss lifts. Edited February 9, 2013 by maidenfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickmeniru Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I have absolutely zero weightlifting experience, especially overhead, but I am a massive fan of handstand work. Pretty sure it would help with locking out, although I'm not sure that it would have a good helpfulness to time required ratio. If you do decide to give it a go, take a look at some of Coach Sommers advice. Won't link the site, because I can't remember if it's against the gripboard's rules to advertise, but a quick search will bring up some great links. Best of luck with sorting out your problem, whatever you decide to do! Thanks for the tip. I'm familiar w/Sommers work. I've always been a fan of gymnastic stuff and regularly practice handstands/walking, but at 250,its hard for me. I have the same problem while doing handstands - I have to force myself to lock my elbows. Maybe its the weight, but I have to fight to keep my elbows from unlocking and going back to that "muscle" hold vs. structure. I think you all get what I'm saying. With the olympic lifting, it does the same thing - I get a lot of "re-bending" in the elbows. When the weight gets heavy, or I get tired, I miss lifts. Do you have the same problem with locking out non-overhead lifts like bench or locking out dips? One possible thing that springs to mind is that if you've not been locking out movements for many years, your musculature will have developed disproportionately to your elbow strength. (Straight arm work stresses the elbows quite a lot more than bent arm stuff). So it could be that you're subconsciously preventing yourself from locking out loads that your muscles can handle because your brain isn't sure that your elbows will take it. Just a theory, could be complete BS. I guess one option would be to decrease the load until you can lock out, and just train that last bit of the ROM with a load you can handle, in addition to other work you do. Hopefully the loads you can lock out will gradually catch up to the other training you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidenfan Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) I have absolutely zero weightlifting experience, especially overhead, but I am a massive fan of handstand work. Pretty sure it would help with locking out, although I'm not sure that it would have a good helpfulness to time required ratio. If you do decide to give it a go, take a look at some of Coach Sommers advice. Won't link the site, because I can't remember if it's against the gripboard's rules to advertise, but a quick search will bring up some great links. Best of luck with sorting out your problem, whatever you decide to do! Thanks for the tip. I'm familiar w/Sommers work. I've always been a fan of gymnastic stuff and regularly practice handstands/walking, but at 250,its hard for me. I have the same problem while doing handstands - I have to force myself to lock my elbows. Maybe its the weight, but I have to fight to keep my elbows from unlocking and going back to that "muscle" hold vs. structure. I think you all get what I'm saying. With the olympic lifting, it does the same thing - I get a lot of "re-bending" in the elbows. When the weight gets heavy, or I get tired, I miss lifts. Do you have the same problem with locking out non-overhead lifts like bench or locking out dips? One possible thing that springs to mind is that if you've not been locking out movements for many years, your musculature will have developed disproportionately to your elbow strength. (Straight arm work stresses the elbows quite a lot more than bent arm stuff). So it could be that you're subconsciously preventing yourself from locking out loads that your muscles can handle because your brain isn't sure that your elbows will take it. Just a theory, could be complete BS. I guess one option would be to decrease the load until you can lock out, and just train that last bit of the ROM with a load you can handle, in addition to other work you do. Hopefully the loads you can lock out will gradually catch up to the other training you do. I'd buy that theory - thats exactly how I've trained over the years. Maybe spending some time "on the bones" is in order. Thanks. Here's a C&J video from tonight. Unfortunately, I did not change the camera angle before the jerk, so its hard to see the elbow problem. Not as bad this time, but I felt it. Here's what I'd consider a good C&J (obviously not me) Here's what I think I did wrong: - For some reason I recover the back foot first vs. the front - Maybe I just need to split a bit further and deeper, which would force a front foot recovery first, right? - Looks like a dip forward some vs straight up and down? Hard to really tell from video. Need to change angle after clean and before the jerk. - Weight was good for me, but not a max. I could feel my elbows not wanting to stay locked. Maybe a wider grip would help with this? - Hips look extended, but maybe not quite all the way? - Maybe pulled with the arms a bit - hard to tell with the video quality. Thanks for the tips, much appreciated. Edited February 10, 2013 by maidenfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Go to the power rack. Set the bar on the pins so that it sits at about the top of your head. Press it from there. It's a heavy partial to lockout. If possible, you could try setting the bar to where it is only a few inches under lockout, and press it from there... Paul Anderson used to train the exact same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopholes Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Go to the power rack. Set the bar on the pins so that it sits at about the top of your head. Press it from there. It's a heavy partial to lockout. If possible, you could try setting the bar to where it is only a few inches under lockout, and press it from there... Paul Anderson used to train the exact same way. Yep, got the idea there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Go to the power rack. Set the bar on the pins so that it sits at about the top of your head. Press it from there. It's a heavy partial to lockout. If possible, you could try setting the bar to where it is only a few inches under lockout, and press it from there... Paul Anderson used to train the exact same way. Yep, got the idea there Except he used chains and a tree limb :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopholes Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Go to the power rack. Set the bar on the pins so that it sits at about the top of your head. Press it from there. It's a heavy partial to lockout. If possible, you could try setting the bar to where it is only a few inches under lockout, and press it from there...Paul Anderson used to train the exact same way. Yep, got the idea there Except he used chains and a tree limb :P Ha yes there's THAT. theres also the old York method where they would hang a barbell by chains from the rafters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Go to the power rack. Set the bar on the pins so that it sits at about the top of your head. Press it from there. It's a heavy partial to lockout. If possible, you could try setting the bar to where it is only a few inches under lockout, and press it from there...Paul Anderson used to train the exact same way. Yep, got the idea there Except he used chains and a tree limb :P Ha yes there's THAT. theres also the old York method where they would hang a barbell by chains from the rafters. I thought that at york they pushed submaximal weights into varying heights at certain pins and held for time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopholes Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Well maybe later, yeah. But I mean early on, in the "golden era": 20s, 30s, 40s, before racks were really a thing.... Theyd hang barbells by chains and press them in a partial range to lockout, or for the jerk, they'd get in the split position under the suspended bar as if they had just completed the jerk, with arms locked overhead, and the drill was to practice standing up with it with locked arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlifterfromberlin Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Along the same lines: Jim Schmitz on the lifts: http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Lifts/Jerk_support_jerk_support_and_recover.html Helped me from just being able to do a snatch grip overhead squat to doing a clean grip overhead squat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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