Negatives?

[yodajaeger]

Hello all! I'm not a very seriously training gripster, I do it mainly for

fun

and as a complement to my other training. And I find one thing that stands out a lot in GRIPPER training, the use of negatives, I.e to cheat a gripper shut, and resist its opening up, either as a smooth-out or as a severe negative.

However, I have never really of anyone within powerlifting or any other strength discipline that makes the negative (one of) the dominant pieces of their training, for example by doing several regular negative squats with a weight 10% harder than one's PR, from the top position down into the hole (not even with box squats), not with benches and so on.

So my questions are:

1. Does everyone/the majority use them?

2. What is unique about hand training that makes them efficient?

Personally they don't work at all, my hands just disolves into pain, tingling and numbness after more than a few sessions. So I'm curious in other peoples experiences and theories of why they work.

[khfm865]

Hi,

I use negatives in almost every session with tsgs, vulcan, and machine. Simply put, they work much faster on generating hand strength than any other method I have used in the past.

They do obliterate your hands, but that is precisely my rationale for their use. I believe that you need to send an extreme stimulus to your cns for your body to choose to get stronger. I mean your hands have no purpose, want or requirement normally for crushing with such extreme force.

I wonder whether the negs have beneficial effects in toughening up connective tissue - getting them used to the weight / shearing forces.

I have considered trying them for bench but can not as I don't have a rack to make them safe.

Cheers

[Chez]

I have done them a little on grippers and plan to incorporate them more in the future. I have also done them on bench when I had a workout partner. I would load the barbell with more weight then I could press and get a lift off from my spotter and fight the weight on the way down. When the bar got to my chest, my spotter would help me bring it back up and I would repeat. I loved using them and definitely felt they worked to increase my bench press. I just don't have a workout partner right now.

[daniel reinard]

I almost never do negatives anymore. I may do them on occasion on a missed attempt at the end of the gripper session, but even then it's only a miss of less than .25" then forced into a negative.

I found I overtrained easily with them and I needed too much rest in between sessions. More frequent workouts does my CNS good compared to forcing it beyond its abilities. Now I keep gripper workouts short and to the point but without forcing closes. Just sticking to successful closes and holds, BTRs. The last 2mm is the hardest part for me anyways so I need to stay in that range. Negatives doesn't focus on the last bit of close.

[Cannon]

I almost never do negatives anymore. I may do them on occasion on a missed attempt at the end of the gripper session, but even then it's only a miss of less than .25" then forced into a negative.

^ +1

[khfm865]

@Daniel Reinard. Funny that - I have found that the big, ultra heavy negs paradoxically do assist in the final few mm - no idea why.

[daniel reinard]

@Daniel Reinard. Funny that - I have found that the big, ultra heavy negs paradoxically do assist in the final few mm - no idea why.

Sometimes we don't need an explanation and all we need to know is it works for us. You found something that works for you which is interestingly the opposite I have found to combat that last couple mm.

[khfm865]

@Daniel Reinard. Funny that - I have found that the big, ultra heavy negs paradoxically do assist in the final few mm - no idea why.

Sometimes we don't need an explanation and all we need to know is it works for us. You found something that works for you which is interestingly the opposite I have found to combat that last couple mm.

What do you use out of interest? Is it a combination of btr and chokers?

[hellswindstaff]

I'm probably not going to be liked very much for saying this on this board but... if you enjoy your elbow joints... I would steer clear of them. Adam T Glass makes mention of it in one of his articles.

[acorn]

At the level I'm at now heavy negs tend to flare up Tennis elbow and send me into overtraining pretty quick. When I was below the #3 up to just beyond it I could do them and still recover. Doesn't seem to be the case anymore for me.

[daniel reinard]

What do you use out of interest? Is it a combination of btr and chokers?

Mostly BTR holds and reps sub max efforts and heavy singles and holds at max effort. I've tried chokers but they just feel weird in my hand. Believe it or not I am better on my 3.5 without the choker.

Recently I've been doing combination reps on my filed #2 and filed #2.5 that consist of 20mm closes, holds and slow opening then continue for reps. I also recently bought a Vulcan V2 and it has improved me setting greatly and I love to do micro reps with it. Doesn't tear up the hands.

[hellswindstaff]

Over crush, negatives, forced reps: these are three techniques I do not use. I do show them to people so they can make a choice, but I do not use them. Each of the three is an example of using effort in training. I have made tons of progress without using these heavy effort techniques. I have effectively learned closing a gripper is easy. These techniques are teaching you closing a gripper is harder. I will add these three techniques are associated to thumb, elbow, shoulder, and finger pain and injury. You now have all the information you need if you wish to explore them.

http://www.adamtglass.com/2011/01/14/get-stronger-hands-faster-with-the-gym-movement-protocol/

p.s.- I've used negatives for a couple of cycles and everyone of them were stopped short with some sort of joint pain. Doesn't seem like a good time to me. You're working with tendons and ligaments here... when you have something contracted and lengthening at the same time... it results in tissue damage. Personally I try and take negatives entirely out of my routine and soley to positives... it allows me to train very frequently on the grippers.

[khfm865]

I'm probably not going to be liked very much for saying this on this board but... if you enjoy your elbow joints... I would steer clear of them. Adam T Glass makes mention of it in one of his articles.

I personally find over crushes and holds more taxing on the elbow than the negs. I get sore shoulders more than elbows. Oh and really weirdly since I have been doing the negs with the beef builder world class and pro5/8ths a little pain in my armpits!

[Bright508620]

Negatives are my favorite. The thing is, powerlifters don't use them often like we do in grip because it would completely fry their CNS (central nervous system). Of course that would be them doing negatives with Bench press ect...

The hand can take a lot of beating imo. The more volume you build your hands up to, the more your hands will adapt and the more grip training you can fit in. I overtrained in the begging just from trying the #2 for various attempts to close it. I will never overtrain anymore. Well i can't say that. But if i keep my workouts logged, and i don't go overboard (hundreds of singles) i will be fine.

The thing with negatives is this..

*** When you do a negative, you pretty much are stretching out the tendons/ligaments in your hands. What they will do is rip to an extreme. Your body immedietly will respond by growing stronger so when the next time you add that weight, it won't hurt you. Its almost like your body trying to protect you from your hand getting ripped in half. And it makes sense to do them. the secret to doing them is to pick a HEAVY gripper. Not just something that you can easily hold on to. Something that is going to hurt when you release your hand. thats what i find helps me.

I just bought the GSS negative machine and 1 day after using it, i felt stronger than i did the day before. with no rest in between days! I think im sold on this piece of equipment

[khfm865]

What do you use out of interest? Is it a combination of btr and chokers?

Mostly BTR holds and reps sub max efforts and heavy singles and holds at max effort. I've tried chokers but they just feel weird in my hand. Believe it or not I am better on my 3.5 without the choker.

Recently I've been doing combination reps on my filed #2 and filed #2.5 that consist of 20mm closes, holds and slow opening then continue for reps. I also recently bought a Vulcan V2 and it has improved me setting greatly and I love to do micro reps with it. Doesn't tear up the hands.

Cool. I am not a fan of chokers myself. I love doing crazy negs with my Vulcan too - mainly to ameliorate smashing my skin to bits

[hellswindstaff]

This is isn't a question of CNS this is a question of connective tissue. The connective tissue becomes damaged hence as to why there is joint pain. If just in a few short weeks heavy negatives are causing joint pain... what are the long term effects of doing them? My guess is lots of scar tissue and poor tissue quality.